puppy monster

[ChantalB]

Originally Posted by YorkieMother

I would fire that vet on the spot !!!!!! There is never any reason to be abusive to a dog. Then I would report his butt to the vet board, and the SPCA.
That is old school thinking by a vet with no understanding of learning theroy or dog behavior

One sure fast way to break a dogs soul is to do that.
Why do that when in the real truth of it alpha rolls are donw in play by one wolf to anther and or dog to another and in a true fight they do not alpha roll they go for the throat and kill.

Flat out that abusive and wrong. You never hold a human child down and shove your fingres down their throut unless you needed to get up poison.
Why is it then acceoptable to do this to a living breathing soul packing being that learns in the same manner as a human child just has a differnt language.

Dogs, yorkies are to tiny to be pinning and big dogs well just are to big.

Sure fire way to get oneself bite is to pull that on a dog that going to look at you and go we are done and your dead.
Do that to my dog and that is sure what would happen.
Pull it on a dog fear fear concerns and your going to break it soul and be dealing with a messed up dog for the rest of it life.

Ask switch from what it has to something of higher value a food treat or a play thing or your love. Take the item show the dog make that item a more intresting thing and switch it.
Teach drop it, leave it and mine.


TEACH not abuse.

JL

I respect your opinion but I don't think this is old school as it work really good. If you do it properly, there is no reason for the dog to be hurt at all. It have to be done firmly but gently...

[Hansch99]

Originally Posted by YorkieMother

I would fire that vet on the spot !!!!!! There is never any reason to be abusive to a dog. Then I would report his butt to the vet board, and the SPCA.
That is old school thinking by a vet with no understanding of learning theroy or dog behavior

One sure fast way to break a dogs soul is to do that.
Why do that when in the real truth of it alpha rolls are donw in play by one wolf to anther and or dog to another and in a true fight they do not alpha roll they go for the throat and kill.

Flat out that abusive and wrong. You never hold a human child down and shove your fingres down their throut unless you needed to get up poison.
Why is it then acceoptable to do this to a living breathing soul packing being that learns in the same manner as a human child just has a differnt language.

Dogs, yorkies are to tiny to be pinning and big dogs well just are to big.

Sure fire way to get oneself bite is to pull that on a dog that going to look at you and go we are done and your dead.
Do that to my dog and that is sure what would happen.
Pull it on a dog fear fear concerns and your going to break it soul and be dealing with a messed up dog for the rest of it life.

Ask switch from what it has to something of higher value a food treat or a play thing or your love. Take the item show the dog make that item a more intresting thing and switch it.
Teach drop it, leave it and mine.


TEACH not abuse.

JL

I think YorkieMother's point is heartfelt, but I think she overstates things a bit. While I agree that we should approach our dogs first with love and loving discipline (i.e., training by using treats and affection as motivators), there are valid situations where the dominance methods I described above should be used as a last resort.

Dogs are not children. They cannot be reasoned with (but sometimes neither can kids!), and you need to reach them on a level they can understand. Some dogs take to positive training well, and that's all they need to be well behaved. However, when a dog gets possessive and violent, as it appears the original poster's dog has, and all the affection and love in the world isn't going to correct his bad behavior, it can be time to use physical (but not abusive) correction to break the dog out of its aggression.

[YorkieMother]

Originally Posted by ChantalB

I respect your opinion but I don't think this is old school as it work really good. If you do it properly, there is no reason for the dog to be hurt at all. It have to be done firmly but gently...

What if a human you did not know or even one you did took you and held you to the floor and would not let you go even if you asked and you kicked and screamed and cried. .... and your feelings would be!?!?!?!

That be assult Right???

What if your dog a big dog did that to you ran into you and flipped you down and grr in your face???
That be aggression and bad...Right????

That be aggression to them too when you do it to them and that which you teach you get. Your dog turns around and runs or hides or snaps at you the next time you reach for it. you taught it to do so.
When it snaps and it is a big dog then what a one way trip to the vet that said hold it down and keep it there till it stops fighting.

What makes that ok to do to your dog ???????

JL

[YorkieMother]

Originally Posted by Hansch99

I think YorkieMother's point is heartfelt, but I think she overstates things a bit. While I agree that we should approach our dogs first with love and loving discipline (i.e., training by using treats and affection as motivators), there are valid situations where the dominance methods I described above should be used as a last resort.

Dogs are not children. They cannot be reasoned with (but sometimes neither can kids!), and you need to reach them on a level they can understand. Some dogs take to positive training well, and that's all they need to be well behaved. However, when a dog gets possessive and violent, as it appears the original poster's dog has, and all the affection and love in the world isn't going to correct his bad behavior, it can be time to use physical (but not abusive) correction to break the dog out of its aggression.

You may want to know I train as a profession. and work aaggression every day and that which you use on them you get back.
You can not break a dog out of aggression you can kill it though.
You8 are very wrong love and work to train and aggtressive dog and so can postive. Have a long hard look at Control unleashed book or click to calm or anything by pat millar or Dr. overall.

JL

[Hansch99]

Originally Posted by YorkieMother

You may want to know I train as a profession. and work aaggression every day and that which you use on them you get back.
You can not break a dog out of aggression you can kill it though.
You8 are very wrong love and work to train and aggtressive dog and so can postive. Have a long hard look at Control unleashed book or click to calm or anything by pat millar or Dr. overall.

JL

That's fine that you're a professional and disagree with these methods, but I'm sure you're aware that there are many professionals who take a different approach.

With your training experience, I'm sure if you offered the original poster some tips on alternative ways to get her dog to stop biting her, she could see what works best.

[ARCHIE]

You can not break a dog out of aggression you can kill it though.


I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. You state that your a trainer,
of which I respect however, I do not agree with what you are saying.
The above statement makes no sence.
Of course you can break a dog from aggression. I have done it and I am
far from a dog trainer. Buddy is too big to flip on his back, however that
is the preferred method. I would not reason with my DOG like I would reason
with my children. My children are human my dog is a dog. The each live
by different standards. I speak human to my children and I speak dog to my
dog when needed. He was or getting to be very aggressive. No punishment
was required they do not understant that. But dog talk they do understand.
Being alpha over them is a must for an aggressive pup. It is never to early
to start showing them you are the boss. I was bit once and it was not ever
going to happen a second time and never did. I educated myself and we
now have a wonderful relationship built on trust and understanding.
A dog needs to feel secure and in order to do so someone has to be the
pack leader. If the human does not take over the role the dog will automatically and then you have a problem. I would punish my child for
being disobient but my dog I would correct in a fashion he would understand.
Sending him to his crate is dumb. You can not raise a dog the same way
you raise your children. I do not agree with that at all.

[YorkieMother]

Originally Posted by ARCHIE

You can not break a dog out of aggression you can kill it though.


I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. You state that your a trainer,
of which I respect however, I do not agree with what you are saying.
The above statement makes no sence.
Of course you can break a dog from aggression. I have done it and I am
far from a dog trainer. Buddy is too big to flip on his back, however that
is the preferred method. I would not reason with my DOG like I would reason
with my children. My children are human my dog is a dog. The each live
by different standards. I speak human to my children and I speak dog to my
dog when needed. He was or getting to be very aggressive. No punishment
was required they do not understant that. But dog talk they do understand.
Being alpha over them is a must for an aggressive pup. It is never to early
to start showing them you are the boss. I was bit once and it was not ever
going to happen a second time and never did. I educated myself and we
now have a wonderful relationship built on trust and understanding.
A dog needs to feel secure and in order to do so someone has to be the
pack leader. If the human does not take over the role the dog will automatically and then you have a problem. I would punish my child for
being disobient but my dog I would correct in a fashion he would understand.
Sending him to his crate is dumb. You can not raise a dog the same way
you raise your children. I do not agree with that at all.

Bracking a dog is not a form of traiing of dogs that is acceptable by those that work dogs from the base of they are soul packing beings and entiled to being treated as such.

Have a lok at truly dog freindly dog training or IPDTA and what they train from.

Also many a PHD packing behaviur people ei Dr. overall. Dr Mc Connerll.
Keran pryor.... now she does not think aggression is aggression just behaviour.

No dogs do not have the same language as a pesron and you can not talk to them as such but you can train every living being from frog to people to dogs to cats.to horse to tigers using learning theroy.
And training with domiance and rough is only on very tiny part of learning theroy.

JL

[YorkieMother]

Originally Posted by irish1225

My Yorkie is now 16 weeks old and can get very nasty when I try to take something away that he shouldn't have. He especially likes paper and growls and bites me when I try to get it away. How do I let him know this is unacceptable. Will putting him in the crate help? Telling his NO just makes him more defiant.

First he is a baby and give him a break he yet to understand what works with you and does not.

Growling is just talk and should not be worried about. Say thanks to you if he growls at you as he just given you a thing to work on.
Shutting of that growl can get you bit as he was not got a way to say he is not comfortable.

Work switch things.

So if he was a toy and is playing with it trade huim for one of equal or greater intrest or use a food treat.
Once he gives it up and takes the food treat give him back the toy.

Yes give it back.. what you want is to have him think that not everything that is fun to him must be given up all the time.
I can have it back.
yea they can think that way.

So now you have an item he can have and is switching it back and forth with easy.
ow comes the test.... he got something he can not have. Stop breat and make a simple trade, just like with a toy it is no big deal if you stay calm.
Then just simply walk away with the thing he can not have and put it away.

JL

[YorkieMother]

Originally Posted by Hansch99

That's fine that you're a professional and disagree with these methods, but I'm sure you're aware that there are many professionals who take a different approach.

With your training experience, I'm sure if you offered the original poster some tips on alternative ways to get her dog to stop biting her, she could see what works best.

See above and yes there are many ways to train a dog... I prefer to think of them as feeling thinking beings with choices that choice to work with me out of trust and respect no fear that I will hurt them or make them.
I want a relationship based on that trust and respect and I can get more out of my dogs because of it.

JL

[bellasmomok]

Oh, YorkieMother....here you are again. I just have to say, as I'm sure most of the other poster before me would say (ones that have tried and succeeded with techniques you disapprove of), my dog absolutely adores me! She knows I'm the boss, I haven't tried the "alpha roll" with her, but I've had to resort to other techniques of which I'm certain you would also diapprove, but she does not leave my side. You said "that which you use on them you get back" and I'm certain in a loveless environment that is probably true. But in an otherwise loving environment, a dog who is corrected by someone he loves and who continues to show him love, will still love that person. The same is true with a child....a child has no respect for a complete stranger who punishes him for an unacceptable act, but more often than not, if that same punishment (I'm not talking about a beating or anything of the sort) were handed out by someone the child respected and loved, the outcome would be completely different. In the same respect, a young child knows his teacher is the boss whether he likes her or not, and also will naturally distance himself from the school bully so as not to become a target (unless he's a bully too ). These are both people who have authority over him (one more acceptable than the other), but he will not take correction from them, even, in the same way he would a loving parent. (I just want to point out that although I'm making a comparison to a human child, Hansch99 and ARCHIE are both correct that dogs and children should be treated differently--they are different creatures and do learn differently and speak different languages. I was merely giving an example to support my statement.)

[YorkieMother]

bellasmomok;
Chat been fun and I have enjoyed the teaching chance thank you and well yes of course it me again.
You may use what your wish on you dog in what ever manner you wish as it is your dog. Tha is just fine but advising with out understand the concpets and what the fall out maybe is mabe not sso good. See if life you messing with and from gentle gives us more room to worl with it goes slow does less damage and give us a chance to read a dog.

What one says over a computor of a dog or even to ones face is not many times what is going on. Reading a dogs body and in context and in sight is always beter.

Dogs and human and frog and cats and wolves and girraffes and turlte and ants and snakes and fish and birds all learn the same Way... Yes they do.

The only thing differnt is the language and that is all.
If you understand learning theroy and that all brains ALL BRAINS [/COLOR]!!!!!! have bacically the same things to a lesser or greater degreee than this is not somethiong new or hard to understand. They work the same.
Oh you most likely have not read Temple Grandin stuff as an Autistic person with a PHD she says that a dog and or a cow think in pictures like an autistic human and have the same basic lacks as an autistic person.

Aa I Said Learning theroy has four parts and you need all four parts to learn well and better balance in the postive then the not so postive.

Murray Sidman stuff on corresion be an intresting read for sure.... It totally base on coresion use people against people.

Positive does not mean premmisive.

You can run this around and around I get what is going on I can come to the table with a boat load of facts ( proven on true scine not folk lore and faulty stuff) and have challange your way of thinking and have conrened you at some level. I know been there I am what is a cross over trainer I did it the old way. that is ok. Your are going to see this again and again over the course of the next few years. Been around now since 1999 and it just gettting head turns.

It is in magazines now just not the ones out in left fiel like whole dog journel but in dog fancy and in Dogs in Canada. So just sit aback and watch.
Best of Luck

JL

[KathyK09]

Originally Posted by YorkieMother

First he is a baby and give him a break he yet to understand what works with you and does not.

Growling is just talk and should not be worried about. Say thanks to you if he growls at you as he just given you a thing to work on.
Shutting of that growl can get you bit as he was not got a way to say he is not comfortable.

Work switch things.

So if he was a toy and is playing with it trade huim for one of equal or greater intrest or use a food treat.
Once he gives it up and takes the food treat give him back the toy.

Yes give it back.. what you want is to have him think that not everything that is fun to him must be given up all the time.
I can have it back.
yea they can think that way.

So now you have an item he can have and is switching it back and forth with easy.
ow comes the test.... he got something he can not have. Stop breat and make a simple trade, just like with a toy it is no big deal if you stay calm.
Then just simply walk away with the thing he can not have and put it away.

JL

Mariah is my first Yorkie and I was very surprised at how BIG of a personalitiy she has for such a tiny dog! My Bichon never showed any of the traits that Mariah did including the growling, snapping, etc.

When Mariah has something that she should not have we do offer her a treat to get it back instead of chasing her all over the place (and never catching her anyway). We have since taught her "leave it" which helps a lot.

But when she is growling and snapping - that is a whole other situation! I do not believe that "growl is just talk". In my situation it was definitely Mariah telling us that she could do whatever she wanted and we better not try to stop her. That is just not acceptable behavior. I believe if we hadn't stopped it immediately it would have accelerated and Mariah could have really bit and hurt someone!

I WILL NOT allow my dog to think that she can do such a thing! She rarely did it to me because I think she recognized right away that she was not dominant over me but she did do it to my 13 & 18 yr old children as well as my husband. It's just not acceptable behavior! When she would do this we would tell her NO in a very firm voice and tap her bottom. My husband has gently pinned her down. After each doing this once we only had to tell her NO a few more times, doing a few "training sessions" and now she NEVER growls or snaps at anyone! She needed to be taught that it was unacceptable behavior!

Mariah is very sweet and affectionate! She is definitely not afraid of us. She has a a very close and special relationship with each member of our family! I'm grateful for all the wonderful advice I have gotten from everyone at YorkieTalk!

[cesar49]

Originally Posted by ARCHIE

You can not break a dog out of aggression you can kill it though.


I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. You state that your a trainer,
of which I respect however, I do not agree with what you are saying.
The above statement makes no sence.
Of course you can break a dog from aggression. I have done it and I am
far from a dog trainer. Buddy is too big to flip on his back, however that
is the preferred method. I would not reason with my DOG like I would reason
with my children. My children are human my dog is a dog. The each live
by different standards. I speak human to my children and I speak dog to my
dog when needed. He was or getting to be very aggressive. No punishment
was required they do not understant that. But dog talk they do understand.
Being alpha over them is a must for an aggressive pup. It is never to early
to start showing them you are the boss. I was bit once and it was not ever
going to happen a second time and never did. I educated myself and we
now have a wonderful relationship built on trust and understanding.
A dog needs to feel secure and in order to do so someone has to be the
pack leader. If the human does not take over the role the dog will automatically and then you have a problem. I would punish my child for
being disobient but my dog I would correct in a fashion he would understand.
Sending him to his crate is dumb. You can not raise a dog the same way
you raise your children. I do not agree with that at all.

great post
i have used my crate to separate my dogs.. for 5-10 minutes.. only needed for 2 males.. but one is now neutered and the other male has come out on top over him.. but i maintain pack leader status when i can..

[cesar49]

Originally Posted by ARCHIE

You can not break a dog out of aggression you can kill it though.


I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. You state that your a trainer,
of which I respect however, I do not agree with what you are saying.
The above statement makes no sence.
Of course you can break a dog from aggression. I have done it and I am
far from a dog trainer. Buddy is too big to flip on his back, however that
is the preferred method. I would not reason with my DOG like I would reason
with my children. My children are human my dog is a dog. The each live
by different standards. I speak human to my children and I speak dog to my
dog when needed. He was or getting to be very aggressive. No punishment
was required they do not understant that. But dog talk they do understand.
Being alpha over them is a must for an aggressive pup. It is never to early
to start showing them you are the boss. I was bit once and it was not ever
going to happen a second time and never did. I educated myself and we
now have a wonderful relationship built on trust and understanding.
A dog needs to feel secure and in order to do so someone has to be the
pack leader. If the human does not take over the role the dog will automatically and then you have a problem. I would punish my child for
being disobient but my dog I would correct in a fashion he would understand.
Sending him to his crate is dumb. You can not raise a dog the same way
you raise your children. I do not agree with that at all.

i agree.. but i use the crate to separate as needed..for 10 minutes..
the battle for supremacy continues..

[cesar49]

Originally Posted by bellasmomok

Oh, YorkieMother....here you are again. I just have to say, as I'm sure most of the other poster before me would say (ones that have tried and succeeded with techniques you disapprove of), my dog absolutely adores me! She knows I'm the boss, I haven't tried the "alpha roll" with her, but I've had to resort to other techniques of which I'm certain you would also diapprove, but she does not leave my side. You said "that which you use on them you get back" and I'm certain in a loveless environment that is probably true. But in an otherwise loving environment, a dog who is corrected by someone he loves and who continues to show him love, will still love that person. The same is true with a child....a child has no respect for a complete stranger who punishes him for an unacceptable act, but more often than not, if that same punishment (I'm not talking about a beating or anything of the sort) were handed out by someone the child respected and loved, the outcome would be completely different. In the same respect, a young child knows his teacher is the boss whether he likes her or not, and also will naturally distance himself from the school bully so as not to become a target (unless he's a bully too ). These are both people who have authority over him (one more acceptable than the other), but he will not take correction from them, even, in the same way he would a loving parent. (I just want to point out that although I'm making a comparison to a human child, Hansch99 and ARCHIE are both correct that dogs and children should be treated differently--they are different creatures and do learn differently and speak different languages. I was merely giving an example to support my statement.)

sorryy i posted twice above



i agree with the love bonding ..a secure dog will obey... benevolent eye contact is a great tool. along with the book.. LET THE DOG DECIDE