Is it bad I decided not to crop my puppy's tail

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by nydia

I don't see how if she is planning to sell the pups it would be a problem with docking the tails, most people sell their pups as pets not for breeding.

And most people buying them are looking for a Yorkie that fits the set standard, which calls for a docked tail. Most breeders stive to produce dogs that meet the standard as closely as possible in EVERY aspect.

Originally Posted by nydia

If their not going to put their new pup in a show, if the person looking to buy isn't a show hopefull then why mutilate the baby? Ask if they plan to show explain to the buyer cutting off the tail of a yorkie or any animal is really animal cruelty and mutilation and that it is banned in UK, ask them if they would like for someone to cut off one of their legs or arms??? Arms are used not only to get us the thing we need but it's part of how we balance ourselves, the dogs tail acts in the same way our arms do if we were on a tight rope or doing some type of gymnastics etc the tail is a dogs balance.

LOL...when dogs start walking on a tight rope, I'll lobby for them to keep their tails. For starters, legs/arms are major appendages, tails are not--the two are not comparable. As for if it is 'animal cruelty' or 'mutilation', that is a matter of opinion, not fact. I'm sure it can be quite a tramatic experience for both the pups and anyone witnessing it if someone w/out a clue as to how to properly perform the procedure tries a hand at it. However, if done by someone adequately trained and within the first few days of the pups life before the circulation and nerve development has reached it's full functioning level, the dogs feel little discomfort at all...heck, my last litter didn't even even wake up or flinch and there wasn't even a drop of blood from any of them.

Going against the standard by breeding and keeping the tails is up to each person to make individually. (My suggestion would be pick a dog with a different standard.) I know that I personally would not aim to acquire a dog w/ a docked tail and won't until the standard changes to call for it. Of course, you have unscrupulous breeders breeding out of standard dog every day, so this is just another one to add on the pile. It's funny to me that people get riled up about the 'torture' these pups feel but don't seem to have a problem stomaching the pain and discomfort the bitch goes through during whelping, pregnancy and even the tie process itself. Something in that just doesn't make sense to me....

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by nydia

I don't see how if she is planning to sell the pups it would be a problem with docking the tails, most people sell their pups as pets not for breeding. If their not going to put their new pup in a show, if the person looking to buy isn't a show hopefull then why mutilate the baby? Ask if they plan to show explain to the buyer cutting off the tail of a yorkie or any animal is really animal cruelty and mutilation and that it is banned in UK, ask them if they would like for someone to cut off one of their legs or arms??? Arms are used not only to get us the thing we need but it's part of how we balance ourselves, the dogs tail acts in the same way our arms do if we were on a tight rope or doing some type of gymnastics etc the tail is a dogs balance.

Ellie's tail is docked and she has no problem balancing.
Because it's done within the first few days, the pups may not feel much at all.
I really don't see how it is animal cruelty because it supposedly causes pain when lots of procedures cause pain like getting blood drawn.

[nydia]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

And most people buying them are looking for a Yorkie that fits the set standard, which calls for a docked tail. Most breeders stive to produce dogs that meet the standard as closely as possible in EVERY aspect.



LOL...when dogs start walking on a tight rope, I'll lobby for them to keep their tails. For starters, legs/arms are major appendages, tails are not--the two are not comparable. As for if it is 'animal cruelty' or 'mutilation', that is a matter of opinion, not fact. I'm sure it can be quite a tramatic experience for both the pups and anyone witnessing it if someone w/out a clue as to how to properly perform the procedure tries a hand at it. However, if done by someone adequately trained and within the first few days of the pups life before the circulation and nerve development has reached it's full functioning level, the dogs feel little discomfort at all...heck, my last litter didn't even even wake up or flinch and there wasn't even a drop of blood from any of them.

Going against the standard by breeding and keeping the tails is up to each person to make individually. (My suggestion would be pick a dog with a different standard.) I know that I personally would not aim to acquire a dog w/ a docked tail and won't until the standard changes to call for it. Of course, you have unscrupulous breeders breeding out of standard dog every day, so this is just another one to add on the pile. It's funny to me that people get riled up about the 'torture' these pups feel but don't seem to have a problem stomaching the pain and discomfort the bitch goes through during whelping, pregnancy and even the tie process itself. Something in that just doesn't make sense to me....

Well I know for a fact that their tail is what helps them balance and I'm willing to bet that my babies with their tails will beat any yorkie without a tail in an agility contest, Blaine and Charlie were in agility classes and blaine who was well trained did not outdo charlie who was a newbie, Charlie was faster, jumped twice as high than blaine and had better control in turning to go to the next obstacle, when I asked the trainer how come Charlie was faster and jumped higher than blaine even though they are exactly the same size the trainer told me because Charlie has a tail, ASK YOUR VET, what the tail is for, some vets don't even do tail docking no matter how old the pup is, my vet definitely won't do it.

And keeping the tails isn't going against the standard, why is a dock tail the standard because AKC said so, who are they??? Nobody but another organization that makes up their own rules as to what is exceptable or not, their are a thousand different organizations and they all don't agree that docking the tails is standard, it is mutilation no matter how you look at it, they are born with tails you take their tails from them no matter how you look at that it is MUTILATION!!! ANIMAL CRUELY JUST FOR A LOOK!!! HAHAHA now that doesn't make sense! I say AKC got it wrong. I for one would not buy any animal with a docked tail, if I knew the breeder I bought Sabrina and Blaine from docked tails I would have never purchased my babies from her, that was just one of the questions I forgot to ask the breeder but I know better next time. Just like all of these pitbull and rottweiler owners docking tails and ears it's just ridiculous and I for one am not a supporter of docked tails!!! for UKC for banning the docking of tails.

[nydia]

And just to be clear, I too was ignorant to the fact that tail docking was mutilation until my wonderful vet and agility trainer explained to me what the tail is for, all you have to do is look at your babies mutilated tails when they run and jump when they jump up their tails go down and when they are jumping off of something their tails go up, if they are running to the left their tail is pointed to the left and vice versa why would they do that if they didn't need their tails or use their tails in some way, you tell me SINCE YOU KNOW IT ALL.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by nydia

Well I know for a fact that their tail is what helps them balance and I'm willing to bet that my babies with their tails will beat any yorkie without a tail in an agility contest, Blaine and Charlie were in agility classes and blaine who was well trained did not outdo charlie who was a newbie, Charlie was faster, jumped twice as high than blaine and had better control in turning to go to the next obstacle, when I asked the trainer how come Charlie was faster and jumped higher than blaine even though they are exactly the same size the trainer told me because Charlie has a tail, ASK YOUR VET, what the tail is for, some vets don't even do tail docking no matter how old the pup is, my vet definitely won't do it.

As someone who has participated in agility and worked with others who have as well, that theory just doesn't sit with me...sorry. As far as "asking my vet", this subject doesn't even scratch the surface of what all I've "asked my vet" over the years. Trust me, this was a subject I researched in great detail years ago before I ever got my first Yorkie or bred the first litter. As for "knowing it all" I never stated such, but much like yourself I have the right to express my opinion based on what I've learned and my experiences. (FYI, some of the most reknown and accomplished breeds in various events are Welsh Corgies....with guess what, no tails!) NO need to be insultive just because someone's opinion is different from yours. And out of curiosity, was Charlie's agility not affected at all by his severe LP?

Originally Posted by nydia

And keeping the tails isn't going against the standard, why is a dock tail the standard because AKC said so, who are they???... their are a thousand different organizations and they all don't agree that docking the tails is standard

Yes, it IS against the standard, regardless to if you agree with it or not. And no, it's not because "AKC said so" as they are not the one who wrote the standard. The YTCA can be accredited with having drafted the standard that AKC as well as the other recognized US registries adapted. I challenge you to find one widely recognized, US based organization that calls for a full tail in the Yorkshire Terrier.

Originally Posted by nydia

it is mutilation no matter how you look at it, they are born with tails you take their tails from them no matter how you look at that it is MUTILATION!!! ANIMAL CRUELY JUST FOR A LOOK!!! HAHAHA now that doesn't make sense! I say AKC got it wrong.

Again, this is a matter of OPINION, not FACT. It is only mutilation and cruelty by YOUR terms as an individual. If you are against it, then that is your right. It is very easy sometimes to draw inaccurate assumptions about something when you have limited knowledge on the subject. (But then again, none of us were born with the Yorkie standard and history engraved in our brains. )

Then again, I guess we all have our own opinions on what can be considered "cruelty."

[nydia]

Okay YTCA is just another organization made up of human people all with their own opinions they are not Gods, if you ask me God created all of us human and animals alike, he gave us all of the body parts we have for a reason and he certainly gave animals their body parts for a reason, so if you ask me I'm going by GODS STANDARD FORGET ANOTHER HUMAN BEING, eventually AKC and YTCA will change their minds about the docked tail, I"m sure of it. I for one am not going to pay any mind to any organization that tells me my babies can't show because they have tails.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by nydia

Okay YTCA is just another organization made up of human people all with their own opinions they are not Gods, if you ask me God created all of us human and animals alike, he gave us all of the body parts we have for a reason and he certainly gave animals their body parts for a reason, so if you ask me I'm going by GODS STANDARD FORGET ANOTHER HUMAN BEING, eventually AKC and YTCA will change their minds about the docked tail, I"m sure of it. I for one am not going to pay any mind to any organization that tells me my babies can't show because they have tails.

God's standard didn't call for the regulation and creation of breeds, or for alteration of animalsvia s/n either. Thank God those who developed this breed so many years ago ignored that standard or we wouldn't have these little guys at all. But on the other side, who could possibly argue with a point based on God's standard.

If leaving your babies tails intact is what makes you happy, and what you feel comfortable with, then that is the way to go. I don't understand or agree with it, but I would never think that doing something you aren't completely comfortable with would be the way to go either. Generally speaking, I just think it's unfair to make such strong accusations against others who happen to feel differently.

[MyPeanutAbbyGra]

Of course, you have unscrupulous breeders breeding out of standard dog every day, so this is just another one to add on the pile.

Thank God those who developed this breed so many years ago ignored that standard or we wouldn't have these little guys at all.

I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other about docking or not docking tails. Both my babies came to me with docked tails and I think they look adorable that way. Long tails are beautiful too, I'm sure. If it's true that at 3 days they don't have the nerve development in their tails to feel the pain, I see no harm. Although I saw a video online showing a puppy getting it's tail docked and it seemed the puppy experienced quite a bit of pain. Maybe it was just distressed being held and being away from it's Mother.

More to my point. Strictly out of curiousity. I find it interesting that you made both of the statements above. I assume you are for sticking to the standard.
Right? Isn't the second statement contradictory to that?

I also don't have a problem with people breeding Morkies, Yorkie Poos, etc..
As long as they are healthy, that's all that really matters to me.

I will add that I have not nor do I ever intend to breed any dog. I also own 2 full Yorkies and 1 full Golden Retriever. So I'm not partial for that reason either.

Really just curious.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by MyPeanutAbbyGra;2076425[I

Thank God those who developed this breed so many years ago ignored that standard or we wouldn't have these little guys at all. [/I]

Isn't the second statement contradictory to that?

The 'standard' I was referring to in that second statment was not referring to the breed standard. But yes, I am for sticking to the standard--it is what defines a Yorkie as a Yorkie, if that makes sense.... Plus, it was written w/ a bit of sarchasm behind it...

As far as your other question regarding the statement I made regarding nerve/circulation...FULL function, not NO function. Yes, I've seen the videos too....don't recall if the age of the pups was ever mentioned, come to think of it. I've also seen with my own eyes docking done by very expereinced and trained individuals and the pups never woke up, flinched or at most gave a quick whimper and that was it...so I can assume and go off research regarding the progression of nerve developement in the extremities. (I may be able to dig through my stuff and home and fine that info....I'll check later.)

Understand what you mean though, BTW.

[MyPeanutAbbyGra]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

The 'standard' I was referring to in that second statment was not referring to the breed standard. But yes, I am for sticking to the standard--it is what defines a Yorkie as a Yorkie, if that makes sense.... Plus, it was written w/ a bit of sarchasm behind it...

As far as your other question regarding the statement I made regarding nerve/circulation...FULL function, not NO function. Yes, I've seen the videos too....don't recall if the age of the pups was ever mentioned, come to think of it. I've also seen with my own eyes docking done by very expereinced and trained individuals and the pups never woke up, flinched or at most gave a quick whimper and that was it...so I can assume and go off research regarding the progression of nerve developement in the extremities. (I may be able to dig through my stuff and home and fine that info....I'll check later.)

Understand what you mean though, BTW.

Thank You for answering I really was just curious. I believed you when you said that your puppies didn't wake up when their tails were docked. I just recall that particular video being disturbing. Again, maybe the puppy was upset because it was away from it's Mother.

I liken tail docking to circumcision . To each thier own. 1 son, circumcised, 2 yorkies docked tails! I'm sure they'd all be thrilled to know I'm advertising the fact

[LunasMomma]

I wish mine had their full tails, I think they are SO cute with them All that wagging

[mypreciouspups]

Just gotta love these threads..

[YorkieRose]

If we are oppose to a dog suffering pain of any sort, whether it be minor or major, then we should stop all sourses of pain..breeding, whelping, vaccines, mirco chips on and on...life is full of all degrees of pain.

[mscat]

All I know about tail docking is that it is suppose to be done if your going to show the dog and compete. YEs, it is the standard in full bred dogs .However, Not all Full bred dogs of any breed are going to be used for show. My Suzi is not , I am not conncerned with that. She is my service animal and she is a pure bred Yorkie. IF I was interested in have her as a show dog then YES, I would do what was required to have her meet the Breed Standard. I do not know why it included though, because it is not how the dog is born to look. BUT, they the standard has certain rules that must be followed. Even if it means alteration .

[Mayas Mommy]

Originally Posted by freshie

I was asked to crop or not to crop and decided not to. Is this a bad thing? Now I'm worried I did something wrong.

They look so sweet with a TAIL .... I think it is the cutes thing ....