You summed up my sentiments exactly! It is amazing how some people choose to percieve the truth.:rolleyes: Like you said, I've never 'hated' any dog. Sometimes I just laugh and think to myself, "Ah, if they only knew....:p " That statement couldn't be any further from the truth.;) But that would involve explanation that is really irrelevant and quite honestly no one's business, if you know what I mean. I think all dogs...particularly Yorkies, of any size, shape and color are cute.

There arent very many black dogs in the ring nowadays like there used to be. 25 years ago there were a few in the ring, but I have noticed almost none in the last 15 or so years. So, as you can see, the breeder/exhibitors already stopped showing that color years ago. And I am not talking about puppies. Some puppies take up to 3 years to change that black puppy coat to a blue. So, some of those black dogs you are talking about that breeder/exhibitors have are more than likely under 3 years of age. So, "glory be", I guess I have seen some exhibitors with a black yorkie, but never with a chocolate, parti, or golden. Chocolates and the others, on the other hand, have never been allowed to show in conformation. Nor have partis or goldens. So, evidentally, you only know of Nikko that has faulty colors. All the rest is just hear say. But I notice that you love to throw that Nikko Champion show lines back at the exhibitors any time the chocolate subject comes up. I guess thats the only way you can proove that the dedicated breeder/exhibitors must be dishonest or hiding something.

AKC will register a dog with only one testicle, bad bite, and wrong color. All of these are faults in most breed standards. Should they be purposely bred for?



and the beat goes on, and the beat goes on.........

I promised myself I wouldnt even read this thread as I knew it would get heated to some degree...its not at all as bad as I thought it would be..Sue (PineHaven) you are very knowledgeable and very respectful..I appreciate seeing all of your posts and really have learned alot..

I for one wouldnt care if DNA showed Reece and Soleil were half pitbull lol...they are perfection in my eyes...off coloured yes...precious DEFINETLY..show dogs NEVER lol...this forum wasnt set up for registered show dogs it was set up for yorkie lovers...to ahhhh talk yorkie..:P

Dawn and her off-coloured yorkies..:)

[QUOTE=sweetr72;1554658]I promised myself I wouldnt even read this thread as I knew it would get heated to some degree...its not at all as bad as I thought it would be..Sue (PineHaven) you are very knowledgeable and very respectful..I appreciate seeing all of your posts and really have learned alot..
QUOTE]

Thank you sweetr72! That's my main goal; for others to learn that there is more than one side to every story. I want everyone to see all sides and make an educated decision for themselves. I try to use facts and science to battle my wars and not mud slinging, finger pointing or deliberately belittling people.

I do respect everyones views and I completely understand the position of those who are passionate about following the Yorkie standards, but years have gone by and these off colored genes are still appearing ... maybe with enough education and a better understanding, standards will one day change too.

[QUOTE=yorkiekist;1554627] So, evidentally, you only know of Nikko that has faulty colors. All the rest is just hear say. But I notice that you love to throw that Nikko Champion show lines back at the exhibitors any time the chocolate subject comes up. I guess thats the only way you can proove that the dedicated breeder/exhibitors must be dishonest or hiding something.
QUOTE]

Lynn, I'm just going to comment on this one section because I think a new thread should start up for the balance.

The main reasons that I won't name any other breeder/exibitor is because I'd hate to see you bad mouth or defame another excellent and highly regarded breeder as you've done above.

I close this thread by re posting the illustration below, it was drawn in the 1800's and is a group of terrier dogs, many of these dogs are thought to have been foundation dogs of the Yorkshire terrier breed.

The Skye Terrier, The Scotch Terrier, The English Smooth Terrier,
The Crossed Scotch Terrier, The Dandie Dinmont and The Bull Terrier.

Two of the 6 dogs are parti colored, none of the dogs have a traceable heritage and not one of the dogs are wearing a chastity belt! :-)

YESS YESSS YESSS lol

personally i don't much like the look of a 'show yorkie' with full coat, but thats just my personal preference.
I'd just like to add that i wish the 'knowledgeable' breeder(s) that are constantly bashing our 'imperfect' mutts would for ONCE post a pic of their own mutts so that we could all scrutinize.
Obviously if you are one of the breeder/showers who displays pics of your beautiful yorkies on here, that is not directed at yourselves.
:)

:thumbup:

Who are you talking to and what are you talking about?? NOBODY is scrutinizing anyones pet and it is rude of you to suggest that anyone was. We are however, just as allowed to have an opinion on how we feel about the keeping the standard as you are in not keeping it, please bear that in mind. Just as I will keep in mind that you don't appreciate the same beauty of the yorkie in show coat that I do and will not take it personally.

I am by NO MEANS an expert on genetics and DNA and testing colors and all that but I just wanted to throw my opinion out there for what it's worth. :p

I happen to think Chocolates, Partis, Biewers and Golden Yorkies (loooove that color) are simply stunning. I also love love love the standard Yorkie coloring. I some day hope to own a Golden Yorkie (I just adore that color, it's so amazing) and maybe even a Chocolate if I can talk hubby into letting me get that many dogs lol That will require a lot of begging on my part lol :p I'm pretty open-minded about breeding off-colors. I really think they are beautiful and I hope one day they are allowed in the show ring and accepted as a true member of the standard. I don't know if and when that will ever happen but I hope it does.

Are Chocolate and Golden Yorkies (I don't know if golden is the right term or not) in the same situation as Biewers? Are they accepted as part of the AKC or not?

I saw the word cull mentioned here a few times. I don't know if that practice is still in existence today but if it is, I think it's terrible. Rather than KILL a poor, innocent puppy, why not just spay/neuter and place in a wonderful home with a loving family? Why kill that puppy and waste a life? To me that pratice is disgusting and INHUMANE. I remember from my readings on YT that a lot of breeders did that in the past but in my opinion, how can they in one breath call themselves a breeder who is supposed to LOVE dogs and then in the next breath KILL a dog because it's color or whatever (topline, bite, etc.) is not perfect? I don't know what reasons these breeders had for culling besides being the wrong color but in my opinion there is simply no excuse for killing an innocent dog, period. I know some may disagree with me but that's my opinion and one that will never change.

Oops I forgot to add ... I definitely don't think dogs with overbites, roached backs and bad coats should be bred. Those things can affect a dogs health. I remember a dog at our local shelter had such a severe overbite that she couldn't eat and her back was so roached that she couldn't walk properly. Sadly, they had to put her to rest. :( But I think the color variations (as long as the dogs are being bred for HEALTH FIRST AND FOREMOST) is a really nice variety and makes this beautiful breed even more special. I'd love to have another little Tia look-a-like running around but in a GOLDEN color. :D

I actually have no idea who you are Diva pup and maybe you haven't understood what i posted :confused:
where exactly have i said anybody is scrutinizing anybodys pet? i suggested that certain 'show-breeders' (i'm using plural to be kind :p )stop continually bashing peoples yorkies on here and start posting pics of their own, so that us mere mortals can finally see what a perfect yorkie looks like.
I feel it is far ruder to suggest that i am not interested in keeping the yorkie standard??? where did you read that in my post?
If you regularly read YT and follow some of the posts that are continually unkind from certain member(s) you would have understood my post.
Please feel free to pm me if there is anything else you would like explaining about my post. :D

I have no idea who you are either so that makes us even;)
I actually do not REGULARLY read YT and when I said "you" I was speaking in general, not to you in particular about keeping the yorkie standard. I certainly understand your confusion tho.
Also,perhaps I should have used your actual verbage "bashed" instead of scrutinized then my post would have been clearer for you. Ok then, nobody has ever BASHED anyones pet in this thread or any other that I have seen.. Some are talking about the chocolates as opposed to the standard, that is all.

I do read YT enough and every time these threads come up and people express their opinions, they are being unkind or disrespectful or just plain mean if they do not go along with the ever popular general opinion that breeding off color dogs is a good idea.

I do understand how important it is to keep the yorkie breed looking like a yorkie but i also feel theres room for other colours aswell.
when i said 'i don't know who you are' it was actually meant as 'it wasn't directed at YOU as ive never read any of your posts before, so dont know who you are'
wouldnt life be easier if we all had webcams on here lol at least it would be easier to understand rather than just typed :)
Go and read some of the posts on some of the threads about chocolates, parties etc you may well change your mind as to where some of the nasty posts have come from, ive even seen someones chocolate yorkie called 'ugly' imo thats so wrong, i would NEVER disrespect someones pet, whatever my personal preferences are.

oops i meant to say thanks to Sue and Pat, i always enjoy reading your posts on how some of these colour variations started and how you still can get them :)
I love that picture Sue, the dark terrier at the front looks more like a little lion, now that really would be quite a mix!

I havent defamed anybody. But I have a right to my opinion as well as you do. I believe the original question is what is a chocolate? I have answered it: It is a fault. As well as partis and goldens. Its always been a fault. Did I say AKC wouldnt register them? No Did I say they could not compete in conformation shows? Yes
there are enough poorly bred blue and tan colored yorkies out there. Why add more poorly bred yorkies by breeding faults? And then add faulty color breeding as well??? Alot of the yorkies out there in the pet realm dont even look like Yorkies anymore. But, what do you expect?? With puppy mills, byb'rs
and people who dont give a hoot about the Yorkie standard just breed willy nilly, with no other thought than to produce puppies for the all mighty dollar.


And who ever said culling was killing the pup? Maybe to some it might be, but to most of us, culling means spaying or neutering/ not for breeding purposes. I think in the boxer breed, culling out the all white pups was done because most of them are born deaf. I believe those pups were euthanized. I dont know if that is a common practice anymore.