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-   General Yorkshire Terrier Discussion (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/)
-   -   What are Chocolate Yorkies? (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/103725-what-chocolate-yorkies.html)

MyFairLacy 11-25-2007 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hha (Post 1550525)
A mutt is when you DON'T know what breeds are in a dog..I wonder how many Mutts on here that there are...I've seen a lot of yorkies on a lot of forums that I question as to whether they're purebred...I have said before, I think there are going to be a lot of people in for a big surprise if they have dna testing done..and I don't even like the name "designer dog", and I don't have a problem either with a lot of the mixes..labradoodles, morkies, you name it, I love them all..
again, the definition of mutt is MIXED BREED. Doesn't matter what's in it or if you know the breeds involved...a mix is a mutt. Why do you keep arguing this :confused:

hha 11-25-2007 07:15 PM
Sorry, but what I found, was that a mutt is a dog that you DON'T know what breed it is..Now, say you did a dna test on your little girl, and you happened to find out she had something mixed in with her, are you going to call her a mutt?? I'm sure there are a lot of people on here, that have a morkie, or some other breed, that DOESN'T appreciate you calling their dog a mutt! You have your own opinion, and I have mine!

hha 11-25-2007 07:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 1550554)
I really dont need anyone to tell me what a mutt is. And , yes, there might be alot of people surprised when and if they can do a test to see what is in the background of a dog, especially the byb crowd. But I doubt very much if the died in the wool reputable, experienced breeders/exhibitors will have much to worry about.
And, you dont think, some of these so called reputable breeders haven't gotten ripped off?? Sorry, but, I know quite a few that have!

yorkiekist 11-25-2007 07:26 PM
But I betcha the few reputable breeder/exhibitors that did get ripped off had the dog in question spayed and/or neuterd and any resulting pups sold on limited registration and spay/neuter contracts. They just didnt go on perpetuating a major fault in the standard.

I also didnt know that mutt was a derogitory word. It just means mixed breed.

yoursotino 11-25-2007 08:12 PM
what is your problem why do you keep bashing this color. It is this womans choice to breed these puppies and she sells them if people do research before buying a puppy they know that it is not a normal color for a yorkie but, they like someting different not everyone wants to show.

yorkiekist 11-25-2007 08:30 PM
I didnt know I had a problem. I believe the question was "what is a chocolate yorkie?" A chocolate yorkie is what it is, a color fault. I call them designer colors as they are bred on purpose.

Pinehaven 11-26-2007 04:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladyhawk (Post 1548601)
Because an off bite is caused by a recessive gene you can breed dogs to have them by bringing 2 homozygous recessive dogs together. That doesn't make the trait rare or designer it simply makes it out of standard. Out of standard is a disqualification for show because we are suppose to be breeding to the standard and we are judging breeding stock. YTCA is trying to keep our breed true. Any recessive trait can easily be bred but that doesn't mean that it should, I guess it depends on your reason for breeding. Personally I prefer black noses as it lends to expression and that is very important in the yorkie.
I understand and agree with the standards that involve physical and conformational faults; these should be avoided (for the health and longevity of the dog and it's offspring) but color (with the exception of blue born) is not a fault that will affect the health or life of the dog or it's offspring.

Pinehaven 11-26-2007 04:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crystalsmom (Post 1548641)
pg. 213 from "the complete yorkshire terrier' by gordon and bennett

quote: The people who wove the description of the Yorkshire Terrier into a breed standard were very adept at animal husbandry. For nearly on hundred years their knowledge, which gained them advancement in the days of carriage trade, has stood to the advantage of the Yorkie maintaining the breed's distinguishing points.

The new scientific understanding of color pigmentation of hair can bu used to ensure us better Yorkies. It must be realized that we can no longer think only in terms of Mendelian genetics, where we have simple dominant and recessive effects governing the development of a trait. We are dealing multiple genes affecting the hairs coloration, each pair of genes (alleles) contribute to the desired trait. Each has a recessive and dominant form, but it is the number of gene pairs and their independent behavior from the other contributing genes during the process of recombination at fretilization that makes for the attainment of the Yorkies' desired prime important points of coat color and texture. end quote

excuse mistakes I was typing fast to get this in one post
Yeah, I agree but don't understand WHY so many don't seem to UNDERSTAND or Get it?

In the old days before genetics was understood, I can see where a pup of a different color, was thought to resulted from breeding to the wrong stud, thus culling the pup or the litter. Problem was, Mom carried the gene too, so where did she get it from?

Pinehaven 11-26-2007 05:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diva pup (Post 1548582)
The people that breed the "off colors" will never understand the yorkshire terrier standard simply because they have no desire to. That would mean that what they are doing is wrong, there I said it...
No, what's wrong is culling a purebred yorkshire terrier because it's the incorrect color - a color that was produced by it's traditional colored purebred, AKC registered parents. This is a yorkshire terrier breed registry, not a blue and tan coat color registry.

diva pup 11-26-2007 05:39 AM
When you say culling, do you mean spay/neuter and put in a pet home? Not using incorrect colors for breeding purposes?
Why you all continually speculate that this goes on every day in reputable breeders homes is just beyond me, I am assuming to further your point:confused: .
I do know of a breeder that got a chocolate, she S/N both parents and the puppy. Do you consider that culling?

It is wrong to accuse reputable breeders of doing something to gain a sympathy vote, yet I see the same argument every time. It ALWAYS comes up. AGAIN, nobody is saying you should not LOVE a chocolate, what the "Supporters of the Standard" are saying is you should not BREED one! Geez... that is kind of catchy...maybe I will start a new club:rolleyes:

Pinehaven 11-26-2007 07:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 1550554)
I really dont need anyone to tell me what a mutt is. And , yes, there might be alot of people surprised when and if they can do a test to see what is in the background of a dog, especially the byb crowd. But I doubt very much if the died in the wool reputable, experienced breeders/exhibitors will have much to worry about.
And I think there will be a lot of "reputable" breeders surprised of the purity of their traditional colored dogs too!

Look at the Nikko's lines, it's not just the BYB breeders that have off colors show up.

Pinehaven 11-26-2007 07:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diva pup (Post 1551560)
When you say culling, do you mean spay/neuter and put in a pet home? Not using incorrect colors for breeding purposes?
Why you all continually speculate that this goes on every day in reputable breeders homes is just beyond me, I am assuming to further your point:confused: .
I do know of a breeder that got a chocolate, she S/N both parents and the puppy. Do you consider that culling?

It is wrong to accuse reputable breeders of doing something to gain a sympathy vote, yet I see the same argument every time. It ALWAYS comes up. AGAIN, nobody is saying you should not LOVE a chocolate, what the "Supporters of the Standard" are saying is you should not BREED one! Geez... that is kind of catchy...maybe I will start a new club:rolleyes:
When I say cull I mean to take a perfectly healthy and correct animal who is out of and by, 2 registered parents, and not give that pup the same rights and privileges strictly due to it's color.

Whether you spay/neuter, give away with or without papers, hide in the closet or dispose of it because of it's color (though it carries the same genes as many previous descendants), that's what I mean by cull - something being rejected especially as being inferior or worthless (other than for loving), just due to it's color.

If you want to cull the pup and it's parents, you also need to cull the rest of the bloodline - unless you can find where the gene was originally introduced.

yorkiekist 11-26-2007 12:39 PM
Is the only show kennel you ever talk about is Nikko. Want to elaborate on some other top exhibitor kennels? I for one would really like to know who has these faulty colors and stay away from those lines. The only breeder/exhibitors I know have never come up with an off color in 25 years. These breeders are very careful in placing their puppies and with spay/neuter contracts so they dont get into byb hands or people who will just breed indiscriminately. I enquired about a Nikko dog over 20 years ago and was told by them that once you buy a dog from them, it is yours. There was no contract or stipulations on the puppy. So, who knows what breeders got their hands on them. They may have a contract now, I really dont know.

Pinehaven 11-26-2007 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiekist (Post 1552668)
Is the only show kennel you ever talk about is Nikko. Want to elaborate on some other top exhibitor kennels? I for one would really like to know who has these faulty colors and stay away from those lines. The only breeder/exhibitors I know have never come up with an off color in 25 years. These breeders are very careful in placing their puppies and with spay/neuter contracts so they dont get into byb hands or people who will just breed indiscriminately. I enquired about a Nikko dog over 20 years ago and was told by them that once you buy a dog from them, it is yours. There was no contract or stipulations on the puppy. So, who knows what breeders got their hands on them. They may have a contract now, I really dont know.
A few months ago you knew of NO breeder/exhibitor who has come up with an off color - Correct? Good-lordy-be, look at all those off colored black and gold dogs, you know of no breeder/exhibitor who has an off colored black coated yorkie? :-)

In the case of my parti, he's all Nikkos, at least 5 generations, tracing back champion Nikkos Rolls Royce Ashley and no one but Nikkos had their hands on his breeding. Many of the parti yorkies, trace back to Nikkos Rolls Royce Ashley.

As for other show lines producing color, there are some I've heard produce color or I routinely see certain prefix's showing up in pedigrees that produce color but I try to discuss facts and not guesses or hearsay as to where the color is coming from. The Nikkos line is the best known, traced and documented line of parti producers.

BamaFan121s 11-26-2007 08:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyFairLacy (Post 1545575)
I do have to say on that chocolate thread in the nursery - the reason there are so many posts is because there was a big debate about chocolates in the beginning between those that breed chocolates and those that believe it is wrong...then after that I think you'll see it's the same members posting over and over

other than that I'm going to stay out of this thread...there have already been plenty of debates on chocolates and it's pretty clear where the YTCA and AKC stand on them
You are correct! I think that the reason the thread has gotten so many view is because it is such a hot topic and like you said, there was a huge debate among members a few days earlier. The same thing happens when you see something posted about any hot topic here....teacups, tinies, etc. Now that is not to say that the pups are not cute...I have yet to see a pup of any color or breed that wasn't cute, but realistically, I just don't think that is the ONLY reason for the thread's popularity.

And as far as the 'true meaning' of the word "mutt"--it is what you make it out to be. I always thought of any dogs that isn't purebred as a mutt...even if you know what breeds it is comprised of. To me, the term 'mixed' is a far worse term to toss around.


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