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09-18-2007, 10:02 PM | #1 |
Yorkie Talker Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Schaumburg
Posts: 21
| Cesar Millan's methods Hi all, I read a post here and there in this forum suggesting Cesar Millan's methods are pretty good. So I decided to google him up. Apparently, not all experts agree with his methods. So I'm just presenting the other side of the story, and whether or not you agree is entirely up to you, and I'm not trying to suggest/persuade/dissuade anyone. After all, the more information the better right? I thought it was at least worth mentioning, if you haven't seen it before. Warning: the articles are quite long http://www.dogboston.com/askjo/cesarmillan.htm http://www.petrescue.com.au/article/282 And for those of you who don't like to read long articles, some main quotes: "Heaven forbid if anyone else tries his methods, because a lot of what he does is not without danger." "Don't try this at home" messages are flashed throughout the show, and in September, the American Humane Association requested that the National Geographic Channel stop the show immediately, citing Millan's training tactics as "inhumane, outdated and improper." Millan's methods rely on a theory built around short-term studies of captive wolf packs in the 1940's – the Alpha/Dominance theory. There were a lot of serious flaws in that theory. First of all, it drew all of its information about behavior from a very small portion of wolf life – then basically took this tiny portion as gospel. A lot of the behaviors and rituals were wildly misinterpreted, and for some reason, the researchers decided that that these rituals and behaviors were totally valid across species (i.e. dog-dog and dog-human). But, as Dr. Ian Dunbar, veterinarian and author, states, “Saying 'I want to learn how to interact with my dog so I'll learn from the wolves' makes about as much sense as saying, 'I want to improve my parenting -- let's see how the chimps do it!' Fast-forward – researchers at Yale and UC Berkeley spent 30 years observing dog packs and their hierarchy. This research showed something very different: mainly, 'alpha' does NOT have anything to do with physical dominance – it has to do with control of resources, and does not include physical displays of strength. Let's take the so-called 'alpha roll' – which, by the way, is not a forced thing among either dogs or wolves. A lower ranking dog may roll over an show his belly as a sign of submission; but, in a wolf pack, a forced roll is only done to another animal if the intent is to kill it. Guess how that makes our dogs feel when we try an alpha roll? Now, guess how many people have ended up in the emergency room with multiple bites to their faces after attempting one too many alpha rolls... |
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09-20-2007, 08:55 AM | #2 |
Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Colorado
Posts: 187
| I love Ceasar Milan and agree with most of his methods. There are several different schools of thought when it comes to dog training (although his is about dog psychology and not necessarily training, he trains people, not dogs). If you have read his book, his background with the pack mentality is not this research mentioned in that article but from his own experience on his family's farm in Mexico and observing the pack of dogs they had. His methods work and he has saved so many dogs from being euthanized. I believe the best thing to do when it comes to dog training is to read about several different methods and use a combination of all of them to get what works for your dog. If you have an aggressive dog that may bite or hurt you or others, using Ceasars methods by yourself is not a good idea, you should get professional help. For the average dog his methods work fine and do not put you in harms way. Things like walking through the door first and having them walk behind you when on a walk will not hurt you or them, it is good doggie manners and establishes you as the pack leader.
__________________ JoRae Xena and Izabelle's Mommy |
09-20-2007, 09:05 AM | #3 |
I Love My Yorkies Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 37,147
| I love Caesar. I dont agree with all his methods for yorkies but I love to watch him
__________________ Chachi's & Jewels Mom Jewels http://www.dogster.com/?132431Chachi http://www.dogster.com/?132427 |
09-20-2007, 09:12 AM | #4 |
Piper & Sebastian Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: florida
Posts: 14,495
| I've never even heard of the man.
__________________ Susan, Piper ,Harley & Suiki |
09-20-2007, 09:16 AM | #5 |
Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: UK
Posts: 1,920
| What a fantastic post, I do not agree with his methods. At all. There are so many better more compassionate trainers out there to refer to. I do not believe in all that dominance cr*p. My relationship with my dogs is based on love, understanding and mutual respect and I don't feel the need to be the 'alpha'. Perhaps i'm just a softie but I have been in tears over the way he treats the dogs sometimes. He would come near my dogs over my dead body. So basically, he's just not for me |
09-20-2007, 10:02 AM | #6 |
My hairy-legged girls Donating Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: lompoc, ca.
Posts: 12,228
| I've watched nearly all of his episodes and I see nothing wrong in his methods. No matter who is training, there will always be people who disagree. It's all up to you in the long run. |
09-20-2007, 10:14 AM | #7 |
No Longer A Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 16,218
| You don't have to agree with everything the man does or does not do. But face it, he does help dogs who would otherwise BPTS. I have tried some of his tactics with Buddy on food and toy guarding and I have to say it worked for us. I bought a couple of his DVD's and I have not been sorry. |
09-20-2007, 10:19 AM | #8 |
Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: California
Posts: 2,293
| Never heard of this person or his methods....
__________________ Mommy to Meka "MeMe" Brown aka Meka the Diva Member of the Spoiled Rotten Club & CA Yorkies www.dogster.com/dogs/567943 |
09-20-2007, 10:21 AM | #9 |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| I really don't like him. He may have good things to say but his methods do not work at all for us. I also don't believe that a (small in particular) dog needs to be walked an hour a day just to expect them to behave. I do think that dogs do need exercise though.
__________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶 |
09-20-2007, 11:10 AM | #10 |
Love My Li'l Lucy Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Southern California
Posts: 6,700
| I'm not a fan but I know many are. There is something about "him" that I don't care for but I can't put my finger on it.
__________________ Kathy and Lil' Lucy and Jammies Rest in Peace my Sweet Buster |
09-20-2007, 05:55 PM | #11 |
YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Canada
Posts: 2,583
| I like watching his shows, they are kinda entertaining but I will never let him try to train my dogs. I do not like the way its done; kind of look inhumane. If I have a big dog maybe, but no way with the small ones.
__________________ http://www.dogster.com/pet_page.php?j=t&i=410379 "No matter how little money and how few possesions you own, having a dog makes you rich." |
09-20-2007, 06:10 PM | #12 |
Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: the lovely massachusetts
Posts: 402
| I'm not a fan.. I'd rather watch It's Me or the Dog. |
09-20-2007, 06:19 PM | #13 |
& Bailey & Bella Donating Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ohio
Posts: 8,164
| I love to watch all the trainers..I like Cesar and Me or the Dog and I loved Tamar Geller's book The Loved Dog. http://www.tamargeller.com/ I take all the advise I can get and everyone has different ideas and things that work for different dogs. I say.. bring it on.. I'll pick the options I like and what works for me.
__________________ Rhonda, Bailey, Josie and my angel Bella Rue' "Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened." ~Anatole France~ |
09-20-2007, 08:43 PM | #14 |
YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Northern California
Posts: 571
| I love Cesar and he has saved many dogs who supposedly couldn't be rehabilitated. Look how the dogs on the show treat him...Like pack leader.
__________________ Shannon & Lola High Fashion Advisor of the Spoiled Rotten Club |
09-21-2007, 05:56 AM | #15 |
YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: American in London
Posts: 1,739
| I disagree with most of his methods. Look again at how the dogs on the show treat him - what I see is fear.
__________________ FirstYorkie We Love Clicker-Training! |
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