Submissive yorkie so hard to train!

[rsmit02]

My little girl Lily came to me aged 3 she is now 5, she came from a lady who bred yorkies and had several. She was quite harshly disciplined there, was shouted and screamed at a lot, smacked and caged a lot to.

She has come so far in the 2 years I have had her she now does kind of believe she has a right to be loved and will ask for a cuddle or attention (it breaks my heart to think of her past life) The thing is my boy yorkie I have had since 8 weeks old trains really easy he sits, stays, lays down, comes and plays endlessly, with a ball, mouse, tug of war.

But my little girl just wont train. I mean she is soooooooo well behaved goes toilet outside, comes when I call her, never chews, only barks when Jake does and is quiet as soon as I tell her. I mean she wont play, fun activity train. If I try to teach her sit, as soon as I speak direct to her and say sit she just submitts and rolls on her back belly showing, stay and lay down have exactly the same effect and then after a few tries she goes lays down away from me. She truly thinks she is in trouble when I try to train her. She didnt play at all when I got her to but now will toss and chase a treat or sometimes a furry mouse herself but wont play direct with me just submitts on her back if I try. She loves cuddles and will sit on my knee or under my chin if she has her way all day but wont play.

She will play chase and play tag with Jake but always tries to submitt. They just adore each other and a lot of her improvement is down to copying him he loves her to bits and wont let her submitt he backs off or submitts to her first which has really given her confidence.

I have tried to train in my nicesest voice, with lovely treats with lots of cuddles and praise if she does do something right. But it seems to just upset her. I only want to do training as I think it gives them an activity, is good for them to keep them occupied yorkies are so so intelligent and need the stimulation.

What should I try next?

Ruthx

[FirstYorkie]

Have you looked into clicker training? She sounds like the perfect candidate. You might use a ball point pen as your clicker since it would be quieter.

[Ladylavender]

I agree clicker training would be great. You can find some clickers that have a softer noise also. Since clickers = treats, she may really respond to this once she gets the hang of it.

[abbie's mom]

It breaks my heart, too, to think of her past life . Just kills me to think how many are just 'product', and their little spirits can be broken before they even find a forever home!!!

The clicker training sounds like the ticket, since she has so many bad memories associated with human contact.

[psvidesigner]

Oh my can I relate. The little girl I bought from a breeded is 3 1/2. She is very submissive. I have only had her a short time, but I can tell somthing was not quite right. You are so very lucky that she has a play companion.
Mimi would just love it if our cat would give in and play with her. She gets very playful when she spies her. I know it will take a lot of time and patience to help her to know she is in a safe loving forever home. My heart goes out to you. I think I will check into the clicking training thing. Let me know how things go. Happy holidays to you and your little furbabies.

[chachi]

Our girl Jewels is very submissive too. Nothing has happened to make her that way we have had her since she was 8 weeks old. Anyway we have tried to get her to do tricks and basic obedience and she wont either. I dont know if I can try the clicker we have one and it scares her.

[rsmit02]

Thanks for your replies guys I have never done clicker training before but will definately look into it, I may look at doing a begginers class with her once we move to NJ, maybe being away from home and having my 1-1 attention will help.

My mom tells me I am to soft and she gets treats and stuff no matter what she does so why should she train and maybe I do overcompensate for her past with love, treats and cuddles, but I would rather not have her trained than withhold these things and use them just for training now and them.

When she came to me she cowered when I spoke she hid behind the couch if I sneezed, if I triped over something and cursed she wet herself. It took me weeks to convince her she could sleep in my bed and sit on my knee. Now she follows me everywhere if I go out she sits watching the door till im home. She sleeps in the bed and if im sat down ANYWHERE she is at my side. She now will bark to go to the toilet and bark at the postman. She will walk off the lead and explore in the park. She will give me kisses and jump on my knee uninvited something she NEVER would have done before. She holds her head and tail high when she walks and will play with Jake which is great progress for her and took a lot of work.

Her only reamaining problem apart from not training is snapping at other dogs who come near her. If another dog sniffs her bum or anything she snarls and snaps if the snarl doesnt work, if we have a play date she sits behind me and peeks out not wanting to be approached by the other dog. She does not do this with Jake ever.


Not sure why she does this or how to stop it.

But I love her to bits and am so glad I got to rescue her in fact the breeder in question is now out of business as we live in a small place and erm I have a big mouth and work in the only hospital in the area which brings me in contact with a lot of people!!!!! Needless to say no one will buy from her now and she had to give it up not long after I got Lily. I was looking for another puppy at the time but when she called me to see her pups I knew lots of people would want them but not Lily a messy, older, timid yorkie who had 2 c sections and a big hernia my husband thinks im mad but supported me I actually paid $800 for Lily (puppies were $300) to get her as this woman only cared about money she said no but I convinced her went round with cash in hand and waved it under nose literaly, Lily needed out of there. The pups all found homes and she never bred again. Lilys hernia repair went really well after I got her and she is in perfect health now.

Ruthx

[Potter]

I think it takes a lot of time and patience to forget about the bad memories she has especially since she lived there for 3 years. I have heard dogs memory are usually up to 5 years. She might remember them for another 3 more years since she is with you now for 2 years. It is sad what some people can do to their dogs and puppies.
About her not liking the other dogs that she doesn't know. Maybe her trust is so low that she only trust someone/another dog that she lives with. Let her be I think and let her take her time to come out of her shell even if it means another year or two.I don't know much about clicker training but I am sure with more tender loving care that you have always given her, she will continue to enjoy the life that she so much deserves.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by rsmit02

Thanks for your replies guys I have never done clicker training before but will definately look into it, I may look at doing a begginers class with her once we move to NJ, maybe being away from home and having my 1-1 attention will help.

My mom tells me I am to soft and she gets treats and stuff no matter what she does so why should she train and maybe I do overcompensate for her past with love, treats and cuddles, but I would rather not have her trained than withhold these things and use them just for training now and them.

When she came to me she cowered when I spoke she hid behind the couch if I sneezed, if I triped over something and cursed she wet herself. It took me weeks to convince her she could sleep in my bed and sit on my knee. Now she follows me everywhere if I go out she sits watching the door till im home. She sleeps in the bed and if im sat down ANYWHERE she is at my side. She now will bark to go to the toilet and bark at the postman. She will walk off the lead and explore in the park. She will give me kisses and jump on my knee uninvited something she NEVER would have done before. She holds her head and tail high when she walks and will play with Jake which is great progress for her and took a lot of work.

Her only reamaining problem apart from not training is snapping at other dogs who come near her. If another dog sniffs her bum or anything she snarls and snaps if the snarl doesnt work, if we have a play date she sits behind me and peeks out not wanting to be approached by the other dog. She does not do this with Jake ever.


Not sure why she does this or how to stop it.

But I love her to bits and am so glad I got to rescue her in fact the breeder in question is now out of business as we live in a small place and erm I have a big mouth and work in the only hospital in the area which brings me in contact with a lot of people!!!!! Needless to say no one will buy from her now and she had to give it up not long after I got Lily. I was looking for another puppy at the time but when she called me to see her pups I knew lots of people would want them but not Lily a messy, older, timid yorkie who had 2 c sections and a big hernia my husband thinks im mad but supported me I actually paid $800 for Lily (puppies were $300) to get her as this woman only cared about money she said no but I convinced her went round with cash in hand and waved it under nose literaly, Lily needed out of there. The pups all found homes and she never bred again. Lilys hernia repair went really well after I got her and she is in perfect health now.

Ruthx

Oh that is so sad but i am glad she has you now. It sounds like she has come so far already

[ellie81]

Well, it looks like Lily is the typical "lap dog", lots of kisses, tummy rubbing, and cuddling, but not much training or fun.
I think sometimes we cannot get it all. My yorkie is very active, playful, easy to train and does not cuddle that much. He is sweet and everything but he is not the "lap dog" type. Sometimes I wish he would cuddle more, but I wouldn't exchange it for his playfulness and fun personality.
At least you have two yorkies with the best of both worlds!

[abbie's mom]

Originally Posted by rsmit02

The pups all found homes and she never bred again. Lilys hernia repair went really well after I got her and she is in perfect health now.
Ruthx

....and, everyone lives happily ever-after!

Thank-you for rescuing this yorkie

[ditsy]

I can totally understand why your so gentle with her, but have you actually tried being a little firmer with her?

I'm not talking about screaming, shouting, beating or any of the other things but for example ... when she snarls and stuff (at other dogs) you should be saying "no" to that kind of behavior, and making sure it stops. She wont like it at first, but she would get used to it.

I just wonder if your over compensating for the bad things that happened to her previously? and in effect not letting her move on from the bad behavior of her previous owner?

She needs you to teach her what is right and what is wrong. By letting her know that YOUR in control of the situation including her behavior will probably allow her to become a more secure dog.

In regards to the playing, some dogs are active and some are snugglers, I'm sure you guys can work together to get a good balance in time.

I hope I haven't caused any offense with my thoughts.

[rsmit02]

Originally Posted by ditsy

I can totally understand why your so gentle with her, but have you actually tried being a little firmer with her?

I'm not talking about screaming, shouting, beating or any of the other things but for example ... when she snarls and stuff (at other dogs) you should be saying "no" to that kind of behavior, and making sure it stops. She wont like it at first, but she would get used to it.

I just wonder if your over compensating for the bad things that happened to her previously? and in effect not letting her move on from the bad behavior of her previous owner?

She needs you to teach her what is right and what is wrong. By letting her know that YOUR in control of the situation including her behavior will probably allow her to become a more secure dog.

In regards to the playing, some dogs are active and some are snugglers, I'm sure you guys can work together to get a good balance in time.

I hope I haven't caused any offense with my thoughts.

Hi there,

Offence? NO WAY!!! I love all the different points of view it really helps. I am pleased to discover different yorkies have different ways in that some are cheeky independant monsters Like my Jake and some like to just cuddle and be cute my Lily.

What you say about setting bouneries for Lily I do wonder if your right she has gone from stricktly enforced (but very clear) bounderis to none really and confusion never equals security. She is sucure enough with me now that if I trip up or stub my toe and yell out she looks at me to see if its her in trouble and then goes back to sleep so she is secure that I dont yell at her.

I think I will chose the most unwanted behaviour to start, the snapping at dogs and use the same "No" I use for Jake when she does it then heap the praise and love on when she pauses the behaviour even for a second. She is fine when I tell Jake "No" in my do as your told voice it doesnt stress her so it should be fine.

I will let you know how I get on going to try it today. As for the training I know Jake loves it he is so smart but if Lily would rather snuggle thats fine by me!!!!

Ruthx

[ditsy]

I hope it all works out, I have no doubt she will put up a little fight the first few times you say no (by fight I mean a disagreement with you by any kind of method inc shaking and being scared at first) but I think after a few days she would get the idea.

Certainly worth a try, Dogs don't really hold grudges so even if it fails miserably she will get over it

Feel free to PM me or post in thread if you wanna bounce any ideas off me.

Side Note :

My current dog is called Jake and my old cat (RIP) was called Lilly .... You obviously have great taste in names

[SnowWa]

Being submissive is a "type of temperment." And by no means does it necessarily mean that a dog was ever mistreated.

My little Yorkie is submissive and will run as fast as he can to meet a large dog - and when he gets there - he'll promptly flip over on his back and wiggle and kiss until he decides it safe to get up. He will do this over and over again with the same dogs. And - oh - he is so excited and happy whenever he sees them. And, he used to do this with every visitor that ever came here. But - now that he knows everyone, he doesn't do it as much - but still he never jumps on people. He just runs up to them and wags his tail until they notice him.

I pretty much let my submissive little dogs be the way they are. Being submissive is not a bad trait at all....it certainly is a sweet trait. But, at the same time, you don't want your dog to be afraid.

I wouldn't worry about teaching her tricks, etc. -- but she should learn to "sit" and "stay." These can can be lifesaving commands.

Try to teach her these commands with as little intensity as possible. I know at times when I have tried to teach my dogs something. I have gotten them, put them in a certain place, ask for their attention, had eye-to-eye contact, and talked to them in a little bit of a serious tone for quite a while - doing the same thing over several times. This may be just a little much for your little dog to handle..... even if you think you are being lighthearted - it is an intense situation for a little submissive dog.

So - once in a while just go to wherever your dog is, bend over, put her in a sitting position while telling her to "sit" -- and then immediately tell her she's a good girl and pet her head and go on to do something else. I think doing this several times a day would be a lot less stressful for her. The point is - that it all happend so quickly that she hasn't had time to get stressed, but she did do what you wanted - and she was praised for it too. I'll bet she could handle this - and in time, you'll probably be able to spend a little more time with her...... but don't hurry that!


Good luck! Carol Jean