Today has been the worst day of my life. Rant and Cry – LONG - *warning*

[gemy]

I am so very happy there is some light for you. A whole 1.5 hours in a crate without sweating etc, and I am assuming no elimination is a massive event!

I told you YorkieTalkJilly knew her stuff! Keep up the great work, and don't worry if tomorrow isn't as good as today. Progress forward is made up of little ups n downs.

[SirTeddykins]

Originally Posted by gemy

I am so very happy there is some light for you. A whole 1.5 hours in a crate without sweating etc, and I am assuming no elimination is a massive event!

I told you YorkieTalkJilly knew her stuff! Keep up the great work, and don't worry if tomorrow isn't as good as today. Progress forward is made up of little ups n downs.

Thank you so much xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Lovetodream88]

I don't agree with a lot of the trainers booklet I would just throw it out it's a bunch of crap in my opinion. I hope things continue to get better. I know when my dog has not enough human interaction she does get depressed (even vets know dogs get depressed) and when some dogs get depressed they act out because any attention is better then none.

[4carolyn]

This may not help at all, but my puppy cried and yelped in her crate non-stop on the first day I was at home with her. I ended up sitting on the couch with her and I was crying. My husband came home and found us both crying. Not knowing what to do with either of us, he took the puppy up to see the vet. She said Yorkies, most of them don't like loud noises, told us to cover the crate with a towel to remove the visual stimulus and when the crying starts give the crate a sharp rap and say'quiet' firmly. Not a violent hit on the crate, just sharp. worked like a charm. I often look back on that day and laugh at myself, but that day, it was definitely not funny.

[SirTeddykins]

Originally Posted by 4carolyn

This may not help at all, but my puppy cried and yelped in her crate non-stop on the first day I was at home with her. I ended up sitting on the couch with her and I was crying. My husband came home and found us both crying. Not knowing what to do with either of us, he took the puppy up to see the vet. She said Yorkies, most of them don't like loud noises, told us to cover the crate with a towel to remove the visual stimulus and when the crying starts give the crate a sharp rap and say'quiet' firmly. Not a violent hit on the crate, just sharp. worked like a charm. I often look back on that day and laugh at myself, but that day, it was definitely not funny.

Aw, thanks for this. I did actually try to cover the crate because I was so worried that if I let him out when he was barking he'd think that was the way to get out and I do worry about neighbors complaining etc. However, he just freaked out even more and I was scared that he would hurt himself digging.


My ultimate goal is to be able to let him roam the hallway and stairs when I'm away, without crating, but until I can trust that he won't pee up my door (and really anger my husband) - I'm just not able to do it yet.


Like you, I look back at it with a little bit of humor (not much yet as it is still too close!) and just hope it never happens again.


I called my husband during all the drama and cried too....lol

[SirTeddykins]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

I don't agree with a lot of the trainers booklet I would just throw it out it's a bunch of crap in my opinion. I hope things continue to get better. I know when my dog has not enough human interaction she does get depressed (even vets know dogs get depressed) and when some dogs get depressed they act out because any attention is better then none.

Thanks for this..


I think I find it hard to trust anyone who thinks that all dogs will act the same regardless of their personality, past, trainability etc.


He seems to respond better with more attention so I'll continue with positive reinforcement as well as the SA tips I was given here and see what happens!

[yorkietalkjilly]

Sorry I've been so late in reading your previous trainer's brochure. I've never heard of such a thing as weaning a dog from its owner, have had dozens of very anxious, very aggressive and very troubled/rescue dogs in this house over the years and never needed to wean a dog off me by ignoring it or rebuffing it, withholding shows of affection, for it to come to accept my leaving it alone in the house. Not ever! It seems such a needlessly cruel way to try to get a stressed dog to learn how to control his impulse to grow anxious and whine or bark when you leave when behaving matter-of-factly upon leaving and slowly desensitizing the dog to the process of the owner leaving is a far kinder, gentler and much easier, less stressful way to train the dog.

Usually, ignoring a dog will only encourage him to seek the owner out for attention all the more and when he's continually ignored and rebuffed, he'll grow ever more determined and possibly frantic to get the attention and affection he so craves, cut off as he is from nature and his birth pack and all he's ever known. When he meets such a response for days and days, a sociable dog will likely grow stressed from his owner's behavior, sensing something is wrong between him and his pack leader and he could withdraw, isolate or work harder still to gain his owner's attention, affection and approval.

And yikes - that part about backing the poor dog into the end of a hallway and smashing its head into the wall when it tries to make a run for it sounds barbaric! Why subject a poor little dog to such awful, frightening and potentially harmful treatment when there are far more genteel and less-frightening methods that motivate the dog in a positive way to do what we want?

A highly stressed, over-anxious, fearful dog who tends to panic when forced into a trapped position could just tuck its tail, lower/turn its head away, curve its body toward the wall and totally psychologically shut down - or else totally launch itself at that trainer with bared teeth! And I hope it's the latter - they are easiest to rehabilitate from that state.

Just the initial part of that trainer's on Separation Anxiety training smacks of very old-fashioned training techniques that we've all moved on from years and years ago as we learned more and more about canines, their needs, sensibilities and intelligence and the most effective way to motivate and train them with positive reinforcement and associations.

I'll read more and report back as I am able.

[mrsedwardslpn]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

I've read your post and try to give you some thoughts to try to help your dog from the information you have provided for you to consider or disregard, as I will try to honestly access what it sounds to me that the problems are. Thanks to that trainer and some poor advice and perhaps a lack of dog-handling skills, you little hyper-excitable, high-energy, intelligent baby sounds more like a POW at times than a pet! The problem is likely not with him but with an inconsistent training/handling program of confusion and lifestyle he cannot understand or accept. He sounds thoroughly confused as to what is expected of him.

I'd first get him thoroughly examined by a vet from teeth to tail with blood tests, urine/fecal tests and get a clean bill of health as he could be ill or have an occult injury or something causing him physical problems.

Yorkshire Terriers are intensely personal dogs and yours wants you to show him lots of love, cuddles, to be with you every moment and lots of attention and love - that's what you got him for. He wants lots of positive reinforcement for everything he does right. It just makes them shine to know they have pleased you. Dogs are pack animals and not human sentries and need to be treated as members of our family for the most part, remembering their canine instincts kick in and we can harness those instincts with re-training in order to live successfully and happily with us.

Most Yorkies want to sleep touching or near their other pack members at night and to spend the day with them in life-enriching, fun, mentally-stimulating activities or resting on our bodies or very near us when we aren't up and about. We are to show firm, gentle leadership, show them their boundaries and reinforce those to the uttermost when they exhibit behavior we disagree with and stand them down until they desist and turn away or relax or give up, not in a fearful way that scares them but as a mother dog would her pup. I'll tell you how to do that later if you'd like.

I got my dog Tibbe when he was 9 mos. old, kennel-crazy from spending his 1st 9 mos. of life alone in a cage outside under a shed so he was wild, almost feral and totally fearful of humans, sounds, things and life in general. He screamed at the top of his lungs when I crated him but I taught him his crate was a friendly, warm, quiet, wonderful place and in time, he loved going in it. I never used it for punishment or "time out" as it was to be his refuge during the times I couldn't be with him until he was housebroken or when he had to spend time at the vet or in it during some type of emergency situation.

I spent the first 18 months I had my dog housebreaking him by confining him only when I left the home or left the room to work at something and couldn't be watching him for evidence he was about to pee or poo. Otherwise, he was out and about and almost always literally on or near me, getting loads of praise for every good thing he did. At the end of his 18 months, he was totally clean in the house - unless he's ill & cannot help having diarrhea - but otherwise, he'll hold himself all day if I'm away a long time and won't even use the pee pads I put down. When it's storming and pouring rain and he doesn't want to go outside, he won't even use the front or back porch he's so firmly housebroken to go only on the grass or dirt!

When he was out and about, I kept him within eyesight of me so that when he was running about in the room(I kept him confined to whatever room I was in by not allowing him to leave the room for that 18 months by saying "uh oh" if he neared the door and getting up and herding him back inside the room over and over until he got the message he must stay in whatever room I was in), I could watch him and look for evidence of his staring at me, staring at the door to outside, going around urgently in fast circles, sniffing the ground like a madman and with great urgency or right after meals, grooming sessions, heightened excitement of any kind such as visitors coming/going, etc. He's had total free-run of the house since that 18 mos. period was over!

All of these things usually precede a dog needing to go potty. That's when I'd say "Wait! Let's go potty outside" and rush to him, scoop him up the first few weeks and later get him to rapidly follow me outside. Then, a big praise when he did actually "go" and a nice treat which I always keep in my pocket. I treated my dog for almost everything he did right for his first 5 years with me and he comes running anytime I say "Tibbe, come!" or any other command as his treat/praise training made him happy to always obey. (Even now, he knows praise and a treat are possibly forthcoming but always praise. He's always praised and he just feeds off it. He'll do anything now to get my pleasure in him.)

Plus, to start him off right and imprint his brain that pottying was to be done only outside, the first 3 weeks or so after I brought him home, I just routinely took him out to potty every 30 minutes from morning until bedtime!!! It nearly killed me but he got it! He got the message quickly that no matter what, he'd be taken outside with great regularity and that outside was the natural place to go and leave his scent and markings for all the world to enjoy.

In time, he learned to hold himself for the next 30 minute window and the chance to go potty and mark all over the outside back yard and in time, he could hold himself up to an hour and then two and finally, 4 hours. He now usually needs to go pee about every 4 hours - longer if it's raining or I'm not home - and he always goes Potty #2 in the mornings after breakfast and at night just before 10:00 p.m. But should I be away from the house over 4 hours, he will hold it as he's learned that outside is the right place to go and he just refuses to go anywhere else. Once a Yorkie learns a way of doing something, he'll always want to do that thing that way forever as he's got a sense of what is expected of him. Yorkies love to do what they know is right.

I can give you some pointers and specific training tips and ideas I used in rehabilitating my dog from a wild thing to a well-behaved, happy, feisty little companion who is a total joy to have around, if you'd like.

If you want to use some of my ideas for your dog, for starters, could you describe his day - what his activities are and how much time he's confined, etc. from morning to the last thing at night? Then I could give you some starting training tips to get you all out of the bad place you seem to be and go from there. You can totally reform this dog if you bring him along slowly and show your love always, train him using only positive reinforcement, keep his training always fun and upbeat and give him fair but firm boundaries of behavior that he cannot cross without you stepping in to stop him without any fear or harsh, scary techniques. Hugs to you for reaching out for help for your sweet baby.

Very well said I hope you don't mind if I pm you ask for your advice and tips for my puppy love your tips and your motherly personality

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by mrsedwardslpn

Very well said I hope you don't mind if I pm you ask for your advice and tips for my puppy love your tips and your motherly personality

Thank you for your kind words. You can either start a new thread about your baby any time so all can add their thoughts and advice or PM me and I'll get back to you as soon as I can.

[mrsedwardslpn]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

In light of some of what most would probably agree was bad advice on general dog handling and training you got from your professional trainer, I'm going to give you some tips to read through, consider and use or disregard, just in case something might help you with your baby:

Basic dog training is all about shaping your dog’s instincts and behavior to fit your lifestyle by repetitively communicating what you expect of him in a clear, concise manner, rewarding him when he gets it right, marking incorrect actions with an “uh oh” and turning away from him and always enforcing behavior boundaries you teach him he cannot cross. No need to yell, scream, give time-outs or suddenly spray the dog in the face with water or citronella – just gently keep showing him what you expect of him and reward good behavior – whenever he is doing what you’d like – with positive reinforcement by marking it with a smile, praise and a treat(resource sharing) and an “uh oh” to signal the misfires.

Additionally, always stop improper behavior by standing up as you say “No!”, making direct eye contact with and pointing at the dog, walking over to him in a no-nonsense manner with your best pack-leader body attitude and into his space, thus dislodging him and standing your ground until he backs off, turns away and gives up and relaxes – standing there over him however long it takes to achieve an acquiescent state of mind in your dog. Pack leaders in wild or feral dog packs will often use this type of minor discipline, using their body to claim the space the offender was using, direct-eye contact, sometimes in conjunction with bared teeth, a snarl, growl or teeth held across the back of the neck, to teach a pack member a better way to behave. As dog pack leaders have no hands or more sophisticated methods of teaching as we do, they use what they've got but only as a teaching tool.

If he jumps up on you as you walk in the front door and you dislike that – walk forward into his space until fears he’s going to lose his balance and gets down. Some keep walking, ignoring the dog and others like me will mark the dog stopping that behavior with a smile and a wink as I walk on. He’ll quickly learn not to jump up. If he’s barking too much, teach him to bark on command by reinforcing your commands to “Bark! Bark!”, along with a hand gesture to mimic a barking muzzle, with very excited praise and a treat until he’s doing that every time on command.

After he’s got that command down pat, as he’s barking on command, suddenly stand up or sit up very straight and say “Quiet” as you use a slashing gesture across your throat or a finger to your lips – some hand signal – and when he stops from his surprise at your sudden actions and new command, instantly smile, give gentle praise and say “Good Quiet!” and treat him. Repeat, repeat, repeat in very short one - two minute sessions two or three times every day until he’s both barking and going quiet on command every command.

If your dog is chewing on the table leg or digging a hole in the new couch with his paws, immediately do this: Lock eyes with him from across the room, point at him with an outstretched arm, walk over into his space as you clap your hands or continue pointing and say “No!”(not viciously or in a scary voice – just speaking firmly as a teacher would to a kindergarten student about to break something) and displace him with your body or hands and claim the spot where he was or continue walking into him, until he turns away, gives up and then relaxes. Stand there until he does give in and becomes submissive, acknowledging your leadership.

Don’t worry – canines are an hierarchal society, instinctively calmed by having a firm but benevolent leader to direct and take care of them and often become anxious without one, trying to exert leadership of their pack themselves by becoming frantically anxious, dominant and/or aggressive.

If you are persistent and always stop him and stand him down from any bad behavior every single time, in time he’ll begin to associate each misbehavior activity in his brain with your always stopping him and backing him off. Dogs seem to dislike being disciplined with a direct-eye-contact type stand-down confrontation and will in time begin to police themselves from returning to behavior you’ve repetitively taught them you disagree with and even if they do occasionally re-offend, a simple direct stare or pointing finger is often enough to stop the behavior and send the dog into ready submission.

Obedience training x5 minutes two or three times a day – as dogs generally only learn to obey commands or perform tricks by proper motivation and repetition - taught in an upbeat manner, kept interesting, fun and rewarding for the dog with treats and lots of heart-felt praise from you in a squeaky-sweet voice will over time create a strong, working-team bond between the two of you, teach him who is leader while learning to control his impulses for the pay-off to come and encourage him that automatically obeying you always results in great rewards and happiness for him as it’s such good times when he does.

And, in the process, you’ll have created for yourself a happy, feisty, active little companion who rarely ever misbehaves as he’s learned his best life is associated with pleasing you and works hard to do that.

You are the best for this.. this should be a sticky

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by mrsedwardslpn

You are the best for this.. this should be a sticky

Ha-ha, don't know about the Sticky but thank you. There are many ways to train a dog to do what one wants as we've all seen on TV, in books and news or magazine articles; but I always gravitate toward the most upbeat, gentlest and most positive way of motivating him to want to do what I'm asking of him and rewarding him when he does and always stopping bad behavior with the least amount of stress and angst.

Obedience training a dog with positive reinforcement that is kept up at least two or three times a week once he's learned all of his commands and tricks, a life enriched with activities that require him to think, solve puzzles or seek and search, plenty of exercise and setting fair, firm boundaries will almost always ensure that you wind up with a happy, frisky, well-behaved companion dog that works hard to please you, generally never misbehaves or has serious psychological problems - even if he arrived in the home with them.

[SirTeddykins]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

Sorry I've been so late in reading your previous trainer's brochure. I've never heard of such a thing as weaning a dog from its owner, have had dozens of very anxious, very aggressive and very troubled/rescue dogs in this house over the years and never needed to wean a dog off me by ignoring it or rebuffing it, withholding shows of affection, for it to come to accept my leaving it alone in the house. Not ever! It seems such a needlessly cruel way to try to get a stressed dog to learn how to control his impulse to grow anxious and whine or bark when you leave when behaving matter-of-factly upon leaving and slowly desensitizing the dog to the process of the owner leaving is a far kinder, gentler and much easier, less stressful way to train the dog.

Usually, ignoring a dog will only encourage him to seek the owner out for attention all the more and when he's continually ignored and rebuffed, he'll grow ever more determined and possibly frantic to get the attention and affection he so craves, cut off as he is from nature and his birth pack and all he's ever known. When he meets such a response for days and days, a sociable dog will likely grow stressed from his owner's behavior, sensing something is wrong between him and his pack leader and he could withdraw, isolate or work harder still to gain his owner's attention, affection and approval.

And yikes - that part about backing the poor dog into the end of a hallway and smashing its head into the wall when it tries to make a run for it sounds barbaric! Why subject a poor little dog to such awful, frightening and potentially harmful treatment when there are far more genteel and less-frightening methods that motivate the dog in a positive way to do what we want?

A highly stressed, over-anxious, fearful dog who tends to panic when forced into a trapped position could just tuck its tail, lower/turn its head away, curve its body toward the wall and totally psychologically shut down - or else totally launch itself at that trainer with bared teeth! And I hope it's the latter - they are easiest to rehabilitate from that state.

Just the initial part of that trainer's on Separation Anxiety training smacks of very old-fashioned training techniques that we've all moved on from years and years ago as we learned more and more about canines, their needs, sensibilities and intelligence and the most effective way to motivate and train them with positive reinforcement and associations.

I'll read more and report back as I am able.

You can probably see now why I was so confused and my dog so confused. I put time and money into a trainer who has wrecked my confidence which, in turn, has resulted in a confused little dog.


I will probably never trust trainers again, which is a sad and unfortunate result of this particular trainers incompetence, yet; for my dog, I'm willing to try alternate methods.


I think training should be regulated as how can a lay person know what's out dated, relevant or effective? Also, a dog is a life with a mind which is being messed with when trainers are wrong.

I have found this whole thing so disheartening but YT has made me feel a little better about things.


Thanks for having a read and await your further comments.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by SirTeddykins

You can probably see now why I was so confused and my dog so confused. I put time and money into a trainer who has wrecked my confidence which, in turn, has resulted in a confused little dog.


I will probably never trust trainers again, which is a sad and unfortunate result of this particular trainers incompetence, yet; for my dog, I'm willing to try alternate methods.


I think training should be regulated as how can a lay person know what's out dated, relevant or effective? Also, a dog is a life with a mind which is being messed with when trainers are wrong.

I have found this whole thing so disheartening but YT has made me feel a little better about things.


Thanks for having a read and await your further comments.

I can, indeed, see why your poor baby was a mess and you confused after being instructed by a militant-type trainer using very old ideas about how to handle and train a dog.

Of course, many dogs will quickly pick up on whatever direction they get, however martinet-like the methods, particularly GSD's, Labs, Golden's, even if it's crudely dispensed with harsh techniques, and try their best to please their trainer as soon as they can pick up whatever it is the trainer is trying to teach them. But other dogs - hyper, excited, stressed/anxious and fearful -dogs can grow confused and terrified at such treatment, lose trust and respect for the one using these authoritarian methods and begin to behave bizarrely as a result of such training.

Yorkies, these days, possessed mostly with a highly-strung, race-horse-like temperament through the selection and happenstance of human intervention in their breeding programs, wouldn't generally, as a 21st century breed, probably react well at all to this type instruction without rebelling and/or growing more and more stressed and oppressed by these methods of training.

But today's Yorkies do react very well to keeping their training fun, using upbeat motivation techniques to incite them to want to focus on you, learn what you are teaching them and then instantly rewarding them when they get it right while marking a misfire with an "uh oh" and no reward just so they know when they didn't and thus more quickly figuring out which result they like the best and how to get that good it every time. And it makes them love to work and train and look to you as their benevolent pack leader.

I'll tell you what, I've always mollycoddled dogs I've trained and my own pets to bits but have always gained their respect and compliance, never been bitten as an adult, even with big, hostile, out-of-control, panicked dogs or those who have become become a cur or the most nervous little "ankle-biters", but I instruct them in how to behave using the motivation of my voice, my energy and enthusiasm, food, toys - from squeaky toys to balls to sticks some always love to carry in their mouths, a hard play session or whatever the currency they work for is, showing them that if they do what I want, they get paid off with the reward they so desire plus my genuine, heartfelt praise. It makes it worth their while to learn quickly so they get their reward and then somewhere in the process, they come to feel pride of accomplishment in my praise, develop respect for me as their pack or family leader and begin to work to feel so good about themselves for getting their commands right as we learn each other's "language".

Dogs seem to genuinely love to be able to communicate with us and gain a great deal of self-respect and self-confidence when they begin to understand or correctly associate our words and hand gestures/signs and respond to them quickly and just as quickly gain our approval and praise. As they gain self-respect and acknowledge our leadership, they begin to calm down, behave less impulsively and frantically, begin to control themselves just to please us, having learned there is more in it for them if they do.

In time, a dog just shines as he hurries to do what we ask in order to get his pleasurable twin rewards of a pay-off in a treat, toy, play session and our loving praise. And an unbroken bond has developed between you two that will never be broken in the process of working together over the weeks and months. Before you know it, you've become a team. And there is no doubt about who is leader though it was all kept fun and upbeat for the dog and you.

So you can see why old-school or military type dog training techniques such as your former trainer suggests using with your Yorkie are anathema to me and I don't find them needful or necessary to train a dog, particularly a toy dog with a smaller brain, and think they can do a great deal of harm to some troubled dogs. I'm so glad you are reaching out and finding another way to go with your baby.

[4carolyn]

I have had Yorkies all my life and I'm still learning from the loving and intelligent answers on YT.