Help!!! Milo is eating his potty pads

[broodizt]

Thanks for the encouragement Kathy

I think I made a discovery today. First of all, I have begun to notice, that while he is in the X-PEN, although he has piddled and pooped on the floor, it has only been a few times, and he is a very small pup, less than two pounds at 17 weeks, so he must be going somewhere to piddle (poop of course I notice and it only happened twice so far.) So the only place he could possibly go is the PP. His bed is dry, and usually so is the floor. Where is he going?? I KNOW he has to go more than once or twice a day! But he's doing it when I'm not there, or watching him, or physically putting him on the PP turf.

So when I put him on the turf, he jumps off immediately, so I thought he was not using it, but today, I discovered something. I was at the kitchen sink washing the dishes and happened to be watching him out of the corner of my eye and he went to piddle on the PP. Of course I made a big deal of it as if he had just one the Nobel prize, the Irish Sweepstakes and been elected President of the US (LOL) He was thrilled!!

I encouraged him to go potty again, as I stood behind the sink, and he did -and made poop this time. Both times I came running with Praise galore and several treats. He loved it.

So I noticed that it is not the PP that he is avoiding-It's ME!!! Because I was the one who almost fell over on him when I was bending over the XPEN when he was on the PP. I think he doesn't want to go potty when I am near the PP. Or at least I THINK that's whats going on.

When we came home tonight from dinner out, there was some urine on the floor, but I just wiped it up calmly with Natures Miracle and did not say a negative word. (I never do!). I think he had a great time tonight and he got lots of treats. So I think I got a better handle on what is happening here.
What do you all think????

[MauiGirl]

I think he is a little smarty and he is figuring it all out.

[Piddle Place]

Oh my friend, Milo so LOVES you. He was probably terrified that he somehow disappointed you. A big hug to you both. Keep us updated

[broodizt]

Well, the latest is that Milo is going on the PP when I am there to give him a treat and lots of love, but he is using the floor when I am not around. When he's on the PP he looks to see if I see him and then he goes, so I know that he knows he gets treats and love when he does it. But he's doing it on the floor when I am not around

Any thoughts anyone? Any new training suggestions?
Shellie

[Piddle Place]

Originally Posted by broodizt

Well, I wish I had better news to tell Kathleen, but it looked like he was really going on the PP there for awhile after I had my near stumble and then I rewarded him for being on it,and he did start to use it again, but this morning I found poop and pee on the floor, and he never was doing that before. So I just put him in his crate (or else he jumps all over me and the poop and pee)
and I cleaned up the mess and then put him back. He was doing so fabulous, peeing on command, and pooping on the PP, I even was thinking of expanding his living space and letting him have the Family Room without an X-PEN before I almost fell, but now with this regression, I'm sad to say, things are kinda going backwards. DARN!!!

Shellie,
Any good news?
Please let us know.......

[broodizt]

Originally Posted by Piddle Place

Shellie,
Any good news?
Please let us know.......

This is the latest:

Well, the latest is that Milo is going on the PP when I am there to give him a treat and lots of love, but he is using the laminate floor when I am not around. When he's on the PP he looks to see if I see him and then he goes, so I know that he knows he gets treats and love when he does it. But he's doing it on the floor when I am not around

Any training tips?

[wemple2]

Oh boy, I think you have a very smart pup on your hands. My only question is why does he have access to your floors when you are not around? I would keep him totally confined unless you are actively paying attention to him. Does the x-pen not have a bottom? How big is it? Maybe he needs to be crated when alone. Just suggestions. It's not forever, just until he knows what is expected of him.

[broodizt]

Originally Posted by wemple2

Oh boy, I think you have a very smart pup on your hands. My only question is why does he have access to your floors when you are not around? I would keep him totally confined unless you are actively paying attention to him. Does the x-pen not have a bottom? How big is it? Maybe he needs to be crated when alone. Just suggestions. It's not forever, just until he knows what is expected of him.

LOL-I know I do!!! He uses the PP intermittently, tonight he went poo and pee on the PP and we had a party!!! He then a little while later peed on the floor . Not sure what is going on but the use of the PP is intermittent. Sadly, no, the X-PEN does not have a bottom. Just an enclosed gate. I really don't like it at all, it's hard to open, plastic, no bottom-I made a mistake in getting it-my DIL's suggestion. I guess it worked for her, but not for me.

As for keeping him totally confined unless I am actively paying attention to him, I am very ambivalent about this. I understand it is not forever, but between Cassie, and my dad, and the house and myself with no help other then me, I don't have a ton of free time presently to spend hours and hours with him.

Actually, that is a good question. I really don't know how much time I am supposed to actually spend with him--directly, or how much is enough. I mean between cleaning the house, taking care of the two above, my jewelry business, and bills, Drs APPts for Dad, etc. it doesn't seem like I have that much time, and with Cassie still growling and snarling at him, I give them separate time with me.

What do you think? I mean, I spend time with him grooming him, and playing with him in the playroom, and giving him his holistic meds and bathing him occasionally and trying to train him to walk on a leash, but that does not add up to a lot of time. It's about 15 minutes for each activity.

However when he is in his XPen, he has his toys, and I am right there in the kitchen with him and I talk to him while I'm cooking and cleaning and getting his food ready, etc. etc. So we are in each others presence, but it's not like it's my undivided attention. And I just think keeping him crated for hours and hours at a time when I can't be with him directly would be too much for him. I would feel terrible keeping him in such a tiny space for so many hours at a time. That is why I haven't done it. I'm so ambivalent!! How much time is enough to spend with him and keep him crated???? Thats the $64,000 Question! Anyone????

[wemple2]

Okay, again this is just a suggestion, this is what I did with Winston and he was a breeze to train. He never, not once, from day one, went potty in the house...he is trained to go outside only. A dog trainer suggested to me the day I brought him home, to take him directly to the spot I wanted him to potty. His paws were not allowed to touch my floors until he went potty outside. Yes, it took awhile, but he finally did it...then came the praise the "party" so to speak. I purchased a ferret cage, not too big to potty in the corner, yet not so small that he didn't have room to move around and play. I took the top off, so I could easily put him in or pick him up. I moved the cage from room to room with me...so if we were home, he was always right there with us. We both work 8-10 hours 5 days a week, so he spent a great deal of time alone in his cage in the kitchen...where we eventually transitioned him to without the cage. He is 10 years old now and still is gated in the kitchen when he is alone. Don't give Milo too much freedom...at his young age, he doesn't know what to do with it. As time goes on, he'll earn his freedom to roam a little bit each day. I'm telling you this works. Confine him...he will spend most of his time sleeping...then give him your full attention with grooming, training and of course cuddling. Keep me informed how he does...he needs structure, a schedule...sleeping, playing, eating, and going potty. He's smart...he'll get it before you know it and will be able to have run of the house.

[Piddle Place]

Originally Posted by broodizt

LOL-I know I do!!! He uses the PP intermittently, tonight he went poo and pee on the PP and we had a party!!! He then a little while later peed on the floor . Not sure what is going on but the use of the PP is intermittent. Sadly, no, the X-PEN does not have a bottom. Just an enclosed gate. I really don't like it at all, it's hard to open, plastic, no bottom-I made a mistake in getting it-my DIL's suggestion. I guess it worked for her, but not for me.

As for keeping him totally confined unless I am actively paying attention to him, I am very ambivalent about this. I understand it is not forever, but between Cassie, and my dad, and the house and myself with no help other then me, I don't have a ton of free time presently to spend hours and hours with him.

Actually, that is a good question. I really don't know how much time I am supposed to actually spend with him--directly, or how much is enough. I mean between cleaning the house, taking care of the two above, my jewelry business, and bills, Drs APPts for Dad, etc. it doesn't seem like I have that much time, and with Cassie still growling and snarling at him, I give them separate time with me.

What do you think? I mean, I spend time with him grooming him, and playing with him in the playroom, and giving him his holistic meds and bathing him occasionally and trying to train him to walk on a leash, but that does not add up to a lot of time. It's about 15 minutes for each activity.

However when he is in his XPen, he has his toys, and I am right there in the kitchen with him and I talk to him while I'm cooking and cleaning and getting his food ready, etc. etc. So we are in each others presence, but it's not like it's my undivided attention. And I just think keeping him crated for hours and hours at a time when I can't be with him directly would be too much for him. I would feel terrible keeping him in such a tiny space for so many hours at a time. That is why I haven't done it. I'm so ambivalent!! How much time is enough to spend with him and keep him crated???? Thats the $64,000 Question! Anyone????

I cant believe that little stinker. Milo is one smart dog. Is he acting out? So strange that he was doing so great, then started making a mess on the floor. With most of the dogs that use the Piddle Place, they are trained to go potty outside, but also use the Piddle Place when they are inside. I asked my other trainer that is here today, and she said since he was doing so well before, he might be angry about something, like when you are not paying attention to him, and act out. Have you caught him in the act of peeing on the floor, where you might say NO and take him to the Piddle Place and then praise him?

[Piddle Place]

Originally Posted by wemple2

Oh boy, I think you have a very smart pup on your hands. My only question is why does he have access to your floors when you are not around? I would keep him totally confined unless you are actively paying attention to him. Does the x-pen not have a bottom? How big is it? Maybe he needs to be crated when alone. Just suggestions. It's not forever, just until he knows what is expected of him.

Crating is a great idea, Kathy. My dog also uses a crate, but I don't close the door. She can open it with her nose, and often during the day she goes inside to rest. I believe she feels safe in there. It helped to have her crate trained, as when I travel, she has her "safe space" with us..along with her dog potty.

I know the concept of training a dog to use both an indoor dog toilet and the outside is strange to some, but I work as a nurse, and it really saved my relationship with my pup.

All the best.

[wemple2]

So....how is Mr. Milo doing now? Hope he's getting the hang of it. I am not at all familiar with the Piddle Place...but if it works for you...great. The concept is difficult for me to understand, Winston trained so easily, but only to go outside. My fear is that Milo will have too much freedom before he "knows" what is expected of him and once they start having accidents, it's so hard to get them to stop. Wishing you all well and successful potty training!!!

[broodizt]

Originally Posted by wemple2

So....how is Mr. Milo doing now? Hope he's getting the hang of it. I am not at all familiar with the Piddle Place...but if it works for you...great. The concept is difficult for me to understand, Winston trained so easily, but only to go outside. My fear is that Milo will have too much freedom before he "knows" what is expected of him and once they start having accidents, it's so hard to get them to stop. Wishing you all well and successful potty training!!!

Hi Kathy,
Thanks for asking. Actually, he was doing very well for awhile there, he was allowed out in the Family Room there for awhile-with me present and watching him like a hawk- without any accidents, he went straight to the Piddle Place and knew what was expected of him and he got a treat and a big deal made over him each time he used the potty correctly. Then, one day, he ran for the Piddle place and skidded onto it and by accident kind of slid on the mat and it flipped up a bit, not really a terrible thing, but it startled him, so this is the second time being the the PP scared him, and now he has not used it since then, but piddled twice on the floor. Once again, I think we are going backwards, and after almost 3 to four days with no accidents whatsoever. He was excited to use it and get his treats. Now he jumps off it again and isn't using it once more. This is so frustrating, and after he was doing so well.

[wemple2]

Shucks! Is there anyway to secure this Piddle Place so it doesn't move around and scare him? I'm trying to understand the "concept" of this, what is the advantages and disadvantages? Is it not possible to simply take him outside to potty? How does he use this to poop on? Help me to understand why this is a better alternative then him going potty outside. If there is no yard, or you live in an apartment building...maybe I could understand it. But Winston loves going outside...his yard is his Piddle Place...lol.

[broodizt]

Originally Posted by wemple2

Shucks! Is there anyway to secure this Piddle Place so it doesn't move around and scare him? I'm trying to understand the "concept" of this, what is the advantages and disadvantages? Is it not possible to simply take him outside to potty? How does he use this to poop on? Help me to understand why this is a better alternative then him going potty outside. If there is no yard, or you live in an apartment building...maybe I could understand it. But Winston loves going outside...his yard is his Piddle Place...lol.

Hi Kathy,

Sorry it has been so long before I got back to you, but I must have missed the email that I got another message.

So to answer your questions:

I'm not sure about securing the Piddle Place, other than trying to velcro it to the floor with double sided velcro tape, but I have a laminate floor and I wouldn't want the velcro to peel the top layer off the laminate floor if I need to take the bottom Velcro off, say if I needed to move the Piddle Place to another place in the room or another room. However, this is a moot point, as at this time he is not using the Piddle Place, I had to take it away, as he just would not go on it, he kept avoiding it.

I spoke to a trainer and she suggested I try the fabric potty pads, the washable kind. With a few suggestions from her, we were on our way, and he has now become 100% consistent on this washable potty pad in the Family Room. So when he is not in his playpen, he is in the family room which has been gated off from the rest of the house and his potty pads are in this rooms with him as well as in his playpen.

The problem now is that he has started to lay down and rest, play with his toys and even eat, on his potty pads, and it is kind of gross and i'm wondering what to do about it.

He goes to his various beds in the room (its a big room :-)) and one by one goes over to his toys and starts to collect a pile of his toys on his potty pad, and then he starts to play with them. He also sometimes finds a yorkie yummy on the floor and picks it up and brings it over to the potty pad to eat-YUK!!! So I really need help with this behavior-like, how do i get him to stop!!!

I don't want to frighten him away from using the potty pads, but I want him to use them appropriately, and I am afraid of discouraging him from using the potty pads at all, if I correct him.

This is one reason why the Piddle Place was a better alternative than the washable pads, he never did that on the Piddle Place, and I am beginning to think that I might begin introducing him to the Piddle Place again very slowly.

The Piddle Place advantage is that it is a sealed system with a drain and a spout. Puppy stands on the soft green mat and piddles or poops, the only thing you need to do is pick up the poop and flush it. The wee goes into the system and after putting a liquid neutralizer in once a month or every two weeks or so (depending upon the size of the dog, how many dogs use the piddle place and how much they urinate), and then you unlock the spigot or spout and pour out the neutralized urine in the toilet bowl, there is no odor as it has been neutralized. There is a sanitary spray for the green pads to keep them fresh and dissolve any left over urine or poop, so the pad is always fresh.

It worked great when he went on it, but then he became afraid and refused to go on it. I'm thinking of trying again.

As for your question about why they're not going potty outside. Yes, of course this is ideal, and at one time, before I became disabled and before I became aware of the birds of prey out here, I let Merlin, my first Yorkie, out several times a day, and all was right with the world. I would always go out with him, but didn't need to leash him because we have an enclosed yard. He would go out, quickly potty, and come right back in. He liked it, but not when it was brutally hot out here or when there were cold pouring torrential rains (which hasn't happened in a while). But he also had a collapsed trachea, and the brutal Southern CAL sun worked havoc on him. It was very bad for him, worse than the cold

Because of my disability now, it is difficult for me to get up in time and get the pups out in time for them to go potty without going on the floor. This is the reason I failed to potty train with Cassie and Muffin. Although we have never encountered a bird of prey trying to take one of my babies, I have heard countless stories of tiny yorkies being carried off to their deaths, here in Southern Cal. So I became terrified and refused to let them out without a leash even when I was able to go out with them, and that just takes too long, and right now, I am moving too slow. So I felt the safest thing to do is to have them potty in the house in a litter box like contraption, like for cats. And thats what Ive been shooting for, kind of. I have very severe low back pain and sciatica, which makes it difficult to sleep and walk or even get out of bed. And when I finally do get out, I tend to move verrrrry slowly for a good long while.
So this is why having them go outside is very impractical for me. But believe me, if only I could, I really would, I would so much prefer it, it is so much simpler, really. Less cleanup, less cost, less poop and pee and mess to dispose of. I was even thinking of having a doggy door put in, but then it would have to be a completely enclosed tunnel like space that nothing could get into. Some people have warned that the doggy door is a risky thing anyway because it's easier for someone to break in to your house with is installed. (Do I sound paranoid, LOL?????)

Anyway, if I had some able bodied person living in the house with me and helping out, this would not be a problem, but all I have is my almost 91 year old father with Alzeheimers, so there is no help here. So that's my story, and if, you have any suggestions either about outside potty training or more urgently, how to get Milo to stop playing, laying and relaxing and eating on his potty pads, I would be so grateful to you or anyone who could help for that matter. Hope this clears things up about why it is necessary to potty train in doors.

Much love,
Shellie