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Old 12-12-2013, 07:50 PM   #1
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Sad Sad to say need help with 4 yr old potty pooper

I've been away from the forum for a while but I'm back. Always got such good suggestions before and don't know where else to go.

History: I have 2 girls going to be 5yrs old in the spring. I live alone and work.

Things were going along OK for a while. For the 1st 2 1/2 yrs I lived in an apt (carpeted thru out) and put both girls in a large Xpen (locked) during the day while I worked and let them out to play in special areas where I could watch them in the morning before I went to work and then again when I came home at night. I took them out for a daily walk and they went on a group walk once a week. On the weekends they were out of the xpen most of the day supervised. If I left the house they went back to the xpen. They also slept in the xpen at night where ea had a separate crate (unlocked crate doors) and pee pad in the middle. During the day they had water, food and toys. I remove at night.

Potty training was 'OKish' since they were in the Xpen area a lot. One girl caught on fast and never has accidents. The other, not so much!

About a year ago I moved to a smaller apt which had pergo floors that I could clean easily. So I gated off my bedroom (carpeted and the bathroom) and let them roam free in the rest of the apt during the day. (the whole apt is only 700 sq ft) I still kept the Xpen up and it has food, water, bedding, pee pad etc. At night they still sleep there (altho crates have been removed now). I have noticed that the one who never seemed to get it is now going potty wherever she wants. If there is something on the pee pad she will not use it. If I put a new one down she goes and uses it immediately then won't go on it again. I am constantly changing them. She likes to stay right by the front door to sniff and will pee there. (But, at least she can't ruin the floor!)

Long story short. I have to move again next week and the new apt is about the same size but carpeted all thru except the kitchen and bathroom.I am frantic! I can't chance letting them roam free. No pee on the carpet!! I feel bad putting them back in the xpen all day again since it seemed they were so happy to run around and got lots of exercise. Or gate them in the kitchen (then they will think the kitchen is the potty room). Maybe they are too old to stay in that xpen or kitchen all day. I don't know what to do.

Also I feel I will be punishing the one who never makes a mistake because the other one is not doing what she should. The one who hasn't gotten it right is the alpha dog! I can't lock one up in the xpen and leave the other out. So what I do for one I have to do for both.

Help. They have never been crate trained in a locked crate. I hope there is another way to train the potty pooper!

Please help!
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Old 12-13-2013, 07:48 AM   #2
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You might find that having the dogs their own seperate xpens and pee pads will help...If the alpha is the one having potty problems, it's because of behaviour and marking her territory and the other dog knows better than to mark over it so goes in his own spot. They need their personal space, even from each other so having their own xpen and their own crates to be in and their own potty areas makes it easier for them. If you can't do that, then as a last resort you could pick up a small vial of fox urine from a sporting goods shop a lot of vet's swear by this technique, spray just one tiny spray of it on the pee pad, usually the dogs will pee on it to mark and when they do that praise them and reward them especially the alpha dog. When you see the dog going anywhere else but on the pee pad, yell NO at her and put her nose to the pee so she can smell it..but don't rub it in the nose or anything like that because she will smell it an inch away from her face and know it...then lead her to the pee pad...lead her there, don't pick her up and place her there or she wont learn properly, lead her there playfully or with a treat and keep her there until she pees on it then reward her. After she's done that, let her play and clean the spot she peed or pooped on.

Does the xpen have a door? Do you use a pee pad holder? If not, I think its a good idea to get one because it will keep them from accidentally peeing on the floor, sometimes when they go on the pad it can seep to the side or get soaked in an area and leak onto the floor, or they play with it...the holder stops all this. Plus the holder has a certain feel to it they associate, and they can confuse just a pee pad with carpet. The xpen with a door is good, stick the pee pads in the xpen and let them out to play but make it clear to them if they have accidents off the pad they go into the pen. Make sure the pen has only enough room for bed and pee pad, that way they have no choice but to pee on it. You don't have to lock them up in a tiny crate to train them where to go. I use the Japanese indoor potty training method, it works pretty miraculously even with big dogs. It's much easier to train them, and is way friendlier than a crate. One side has toys and bed, the other the pee pad tray. They eventually learn to go where their pee pad tray is plus you can leave them there until they pee because it is caged in, then allowing you to reward them with treats and play time which works really good. Just to show you, this is the Japanese training method set up.

http://blog-imgs-12.fc2.com/p/o/o/po...i_suta-ta-.jpg
http://image.space.rakuten.co.jp/d/s...e.46.1.8.2.jpg

Last edited by Rainbows; 12-13-2013 at 07:51 AM.
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Old 12-13-2013, 10:48 AM   #3
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbows View Post
You might find that having the dogs their own seperate xpens and pee pads will help...If the alpha is the one having potty problems, it's because of behaviour and marking her territory and the other dog knows better than to mark over it so goes in his own spot. They need their personal space, even from each other so having their own xpen and their own crates to be in and their own potty areas makes it easier for them. If you can't do that, then as a last resort you could pick up a small vial of fox urine from a sporting goods shop a lot of vet's swear by this technique, spray just one tiny spray of it on the pee pad, usually the dogs will pee on it to mark and when they do that praise them and reward them especially the alpha dog. When you see the dog going anywhere else but on the pee pad, yell NO at her and put her nose to the pee so she can smell it..but don't rub it in the nose or anything like that because she will smell it an inch away from her face and know it...then lead her to the pee pad...lead her there, don't pick her up and place her there or she wont learn properly, lead her there playfully or with a treat and keep her there until she pees on it then reward her. After she's done that, let her play and clean the spot she peed or pooped on.

Does the xpen have a door? Do you use a pee pad holder? If not, I think its a good idea to get one because it will keep them from accidentally peeing on the floor, sometimes when they go on the pad it can seep to the side or get soaked in an area and leak onto the floor, or they play with it...the holder stops all this. Plus the holder has a certain feel to it they associate, and they can confuse just a pee pad with carpet. The xpen with a door is good, stick the pee pads in the xpen and let them out to play but make it clear to them if they have accidents off the pad they go into the pen. Make sure the pen has only enough room for bed and pee pad, that way they have no choice but to pee on it. You don't have to lock them up in a tiny crate to train them where to go. I use the Japanese indoor potty training method, it works pretty miraculously even with big dogs. It's much easier to train them, and is way friendlier than a crate. One side has toys and bed, the other the pee pad tray. They eventually learn to go where their pee pad tray is plus you can leave them there until they pee because it is caged in, then allowing you to reward them with treats and play time which works really good. Just to show you, this is the Japanese training method set up.

http://blog-imgs-12.fc2.com/p/o/o/po...i_suta-ta-.jpg
http://image.space.rakuten.co.jp/d/s...e.46.1.8.2.jpg
Firstly THANK YOU for your response!!

And WOW - That is a really pretty pen! Stylish looking too. Looks better than my xpen and has a floor. Is that one yours? How much are they?

And are you suggesting that I lock them in the separate pens ALL DAY while I work????

Here are the answers to your other questions:
I have a large folding xpen . They each have a side with their own mat and bedding (before they ea had a crate on each end) the pee pad is in the middle along with separate dog dishes and 1 water dish. Currently it is left unlocked because I don't have carpet so they can run and play. I just clean up pee mistakes when I get home


When I try to separate them for anything they whine and cry and want to be together.

Now- Flash to tomorrow- I'm moving. the new apt is carpeted.



If I go the old xpen route - Tomorrow I will need to go to Home Depot and buy plywood for under the xpen, then cover it with linoleum on top so if they donít pee on the pad it doesnít get on the carpet. Once we get the xpen under floor done its pretty permanent and canít be moved from place to place. And, it takes up a lot of space in my living room/dining room, So I wish I did not have to use it. I like the idea of personal space.



Yes, I had a pee pad holder. Donít use it any more because I had to change the pads so often and pee would be on the sides and the ends and I had to constantly clean it. Itís not that the alpha dog misses the pee pad (I could understand that) its more that she just disregards it and pees in the hall or in front on the xpen at the door or just wherever. They donít seem to play in the pee or even step in it. When I get home its usually dry on the floor.

if there are 2 different pee areas and leave the door open I think the alpha dog will pee on both.

Boy do I feel guilty!!!
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Old 12-13-2013, 10:53 AM   #4
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Default the girls and their xpens

Quote:
Originally Posted by BayAreaDesigner View Post
Firstly THANK YOU for your response!!

And WOW - That is a really pretty pen! Stylish looking too. Looks better than my xpen and has a floor. Is that one yours? How much are they?

And are you suggesting that I lock them in the separate pens ALL DAY while I work????

Here are the answers to your other questions:
I have a large folding xpen . They each have a side with their own mat and bedding (before they ea had a crate on each end) the pee pad is in the middle along with separate dog dishes and 1 water dish. Currently it is left unlocked because I don't have carpet so they can run and play. I just clean up pee mistakes when I get home


When I try to separate them for anything they whine and cry and want to be together.

Now- Flash to tomorrow- I'm moving. the new apt is carpeted.



If I go the old xpen route - Tomorrow I will need to go to Home Depot and buy plywood for under the xpen, then cover it with linoleum on top so if they donít pee on the pad it doesnít get on the carpet. Once we get the xpen under floor done its pretty permanent and canít be moved from place to place. And, it takes up a lot of space in my living room/dining room, So I wish I did not have to use it. I like the idea of personal space.



Yes, I had a pee pad holder. Donít use it any more because I had to change the pads so often and pee would be on the sides and the ends and I had to constantly clean it. Itís not that the alpha dog misses the pee pad (I could understand that) its more that she just disregards it and pees in the hall or in front on the xpen at the door or just wherever. They donít seem to play in the pee or even step in it. When I get home its usually dry on the floor.

if there are 2 different pee areas and leave the door open I think the alpha dog will pee on both.

Boy do I feel guilty!!!
here's a link to the expen when I had the crates in there
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/alb...ictureid=77596
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Old 12-14-2013, 02:39 PM   #5
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I see, that sounds stressful! I'm guessing you work during the day and aren't able to supervise so in that case yeah they'd be in their pen with pee mat until you got home. Then let her out only when she does a pee on the mat with you watching, let her out and if she has an oopsie on the floor show her it, say no and put her back in the pen. Repeat after an hour or so. They catch on fast! Those pens are relatively inexpensive, I bought mine online and had it imported total cost was £65 or so. The ones in the PIC aren't mine but they are the same but come in different sizes and colours. I apologize if my reply isn't great, I'm a bit tipsy from eggnog and typing on an iPad thing and I'm horrible at virtual on screen keyboards, I'll help more in detail on computer if you still need help or advice. I got the pen from Amazon.co.JP if you can't go that route there is a similar thing called puppy potty apartment that would work! :-) happy moving!
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Old 12-14-2013, 10:57 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbows View Post
I see, that sounds stressful! I'm guessing you work during the day and aren't able to supervise so in that case yeah they'd be in their pen with pee mat until you got home. Then let her out only when she does a pee on the mat with you watching, let her out and if she has an oopsie on the floor show her it, say no and put her back in the pen. Repeat after an hour or so. They catch on fast! Those pens are relatively inexpensive, I bought mine online and had it imported total cost was £65 or so. The ones in the PIC aren't mine but they are the same but come in different sizes and colours. I apologize if my reply isn't great, I'm a bit tipsy from eggnog and typing on an iPad thing and I'm horrible at virtual on screen keyboards, I'll help more in detail on computer if you still need help or advice. I got the pen from Amazon.co.JP if you can't go that route there is a similar thing called puppy potty apartment that would work! :-) happy moving!
I couldn't find the one you mentioned on Amazon but I did watch the video at the Potty Training Puppy Apt website. I think it might be a good idea to try. Sounds perfect as I have wanted a designated potty area for the girls. I can also give Lola her treats and things inside her apt and lock the door and Lily won't be able to take them away from her. Also since it is portable I can move it to different rooms when I need to and it won't be the focal point of my living room

Since I am moving anyway I think this would be a good time to introduce the change (along with some other dog training that should have been done by now as well)

I am hoping that I can get them each used to having their own space and their own potty area. So I think I will need to buy 2.

The only thing I can't figure out is still what to do when I go to work. If I put them in the xpen and they haven't had time to adjust to their new crates I will be back to what has been going on in the past. Lily (alpha dog) will probably potty on the pee pad and then refuse to pee on it again and will go on the floor. Unless I can separate the xpen somehow into 2 parts and put their pet apartment in there with the door open. But fix it so they can't get to each others side???

I don't know! Any ideas???
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Old 12-18-2013, 04:49 AM   #7
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buy two richell pens. You can even put them door to door so they can be together but will have their own separate bed and pee areas. The can expand up to 5 feet long! They have bottoms as well
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Old 12-18-2013, 04:51 AM   #8
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so the front doors can be rigged to face each other and be open. They can step in each others play den but go back to their own. If they have their own pee area you may have more luck. Besides they have a floor so no more carpet accidents
you have to purchase the door to the pee area (it slides open and shut) along with it.

Last edited by kimp5; 12-18-2013 at 04:52 AM.
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Old 12-18-2013, 09:40 AM   #9
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so the front doors can be rigged to face each other and be open. They can step in each others play den but go back to their own. If they have their own pee area you may have more luck. Besides they have a floor so no more carpet accidents
you have to purchase the door to the pee area (it slides open and shut) along with it.
Thank you - Love these!! So much more room but....too late!

I already ordered the puppy apartments on Monday. They are being delivered today.

Wish me luck!
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Old 12-21-2013, 08:37 PM   #10
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Thank you - Love these!! So much more room but....too late!

I already ordered the puppy apartments on Monday. They are being delivered today.

Wish me luck!
Please keep us updated! I am having a similar problem. My Macy is completely trained (she trained within two days!), but my boy Brantley just loves to poo on carpet! Most of our home is hardwoods and it seems like he holds his poo for the carpet. It is awful. He's okay about pee, but ugh.. the poo.
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