Discouraged and Depressed

[PattiNumber_H]

Originally Posted by kjc

Welcome back!

First off it sounds to me like Bubba has issues with being crated, including the xpen. Have you tried gating him in a room or two? Also if you're home 95% of the time, he shouldn't be in a crate while you're home. Yorkies love and live to be with their owners, they don't understand why they would be kept from this.

Also, potty accidents should not be reprimanded, in any way, shape or form. Accidents are your fault, not his. Until he is more reliable, block areas of the house from his access, but don't crate him. Dogs kept in a crate for long periods of time will have issues, even when they are let out for exercise and whatnot. Granted, some Yorkies accept being crated, when it is a positive experience. But not all of them.

He does not appear to want 'free time' in an xpen outside. Take him for a 5 minute walk instead. Walks reinforce bonding, which is another issue that may be part of his problem.

Before having a behaviorist come in, I would recommend a vet check. Bloodwork and a BAT to check his liver function, as hyperactivity can be a symptom of Liver Shunt. Does he eat well and have good body condition?

When he is in the house with you is he behaving better? (Just as you do your day to day stuff?) Will he settle down on the couch next to you to relax, or lay in your lap?

I don't believe I stated he is reprimanded for accidents, and no it doesn't matter the size of area he is kept in, for example, if he is walking around as I prepare dinner he will just do laps around the kitchen to the living room and back, if I let him, I eventually would tether him to me and continue, or put him in his crate and prop him up where he can see me. Constantly telling him good boy for laying or just sitting and watching. He eats extremely well and was tested for liver shunt at 6 months, vet was hesitant, I needed to be certain just because of the breeder's dishonesty.

If we take the dogs to the lake, a long day for us, tons of walking playing swimming for them, Charlie our high energy lab is spent, Bubba seemingly rests for a while (30-40 min) then he is back to his usual self, no he will no lay and be still next to me, that would be fantastic, I would not complain one bit.

Of course I chose to reply to this comment not because it is of any use really, but out of defense. I have owned several dogs, livestock and horses from a young age, trained my pet pig at 16 (FFA in high school) to retrieve, when I ask for help, believe me when I say I have some idea and desire to have a healthy relationship with my animals.

Bubba is not happy, and more than anything I am sad for him.

[PattiNumber_H]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Brit, while I agree that exercise is good for a dog, you would not want to start most Yorkies with a 4 mile walk. This could be deadly! You have to work up to this amount.

To the OP, I suggest you get a vet check up and make sure that there are no underlying issues. I'm concerned about the pacing, and I did want to tell you that my little rescue paces, if his tummy is upset. Are you feeding anything besides the dog food that could be upsetting his stomach? Sometimes even a healthy dog treat can cause upsets. Also, remember that dogs are very intuitive, and if you are nervous, they are going to sense that. It may help if you can find ways to relax. Do you have time together where you just chill? Anyway, glad you are calling a behaviorist, let us know if anything is helping.

I am a pretty composed and relaxed person, my own anxiety comes from large crowds, strange places, traffic, filth, so in my home I am absolutely at peace. We live on seven acres and Bubba comes everywhere with me no leash needed, when we are outside I will sit or even lay on the lawn, he does laps around me, I lay him down next to me, he can't wait to bounce up. Dh says he's unloveable, doesn't like us, but Bubba is loyal, he follows, obeys, is sweet, just doesn't relax.

I am an avid runner and although I will take my Lab with me, at the 3 mile mark he needs rest, Bubba is 4.5 lbs and a petite frame, you are correct, running like that would kill him, it has never crossed my mind to do that to him, I know so many people think what works for one dog works for all dogs, I just want Bubba to rest.

I have played with his diet a bit (Taste of the Wild to Blue), and his stools changed for the worse, with his kibble I add carrots, but have never eliminated carrots all together to see if that might be the culprit. I will have to try that.

[ancora_imparo]

Talk to your vet about dosage, but melatonin has been used to take the edge off. I'd imagine with Bubba you might need something stronger, but you might try it anyway.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by PattiNumber_H

I am a pretty composed and relaxed person, my own anxiety comes from large crowds, strange places, traffic, filth, so in my home I am absolutely at peace. We live on seven acres and Bubba comes everywhere with me no leash needed, when we are outside I will sit or even lay on the lawn, he does laps around me, I lay him down next to me, he can't wait to bounce up. Dh says he's unloveable, doesn't like us, but Bubba is loyal, he follows, obeys, is sweet, just doesn't relax.

I am an avid runner and although I will take my Lab with me, at the 3 mile mark he needs rest, Bubba is 4.5 lbs and a petite frame, you are correct, running like that would kill him, it has never crossed my mind to do that to him, I know so many people think what works for one dog works for all dogs, I just want Bubba to rest.

I have played with his diet a bit (Taste of the Wild to Blue), and his stools changed for the worse, with his kibble I add carrots, but have never eliminated carrots all together to see if that might be the culprit. I will have to try that.

Ralphie's previous owner's vet gave Metronidazole, for his stomach issues and that settles him down right away. However, sometimes he paces due to anxiety. I've found little things that help him, for example, he like me to hold his chewing stick, while he chews on it. He has gotten a little more confident over time.

Another thing, I wanted to mention is that some dogs think the crate is where they are supposed to go to the bathroom. I've read that you’re supposed to clean the crate thoroughly with an enzyme cleaner so that the dog will not smell any trace of urine or feces. Even a pad that has been peed on and washed will still have the smell unless treated with an enzyme cleaner. Crate training may not be the best option for some dogs. You might want to look at this thread about "rehabing a rescue dog", it has tips that might be useful to you. http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...ll-rescue.html

[PattiNumber_H]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Ralphie's previous owner's vet gave Metronidazole, for his stomach issues and that settles him down right away. However, sometimes he paces due to anxiety. I've found little things that help him, for example, he like me to hold his chewing stick, while he chews on it. He has gotten a little more confident over time.

Another thing, I wanted to mention is that some dogs think the crate is where they are supposed to go to the bathroom. I've read that you’re supposed to clean the crate thoroughly with an enzyme cleaner so that the dog will not smell any trace of urine or feces. Even a pad that has been peed on and washed will still have the smell unless treated with an enzyme cleaner. Crate training may not be the best option for some dogs. You might want to look at this thread about "rehabing a rescue dog", it has tips that might be useful to you. http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...ll-rescue.html

Nature's Miracle has become our best friend, purchasing by the gallon these days, I have even gone as far a creating a mild wash for his private part after he does his business, once I knew the pacing led to the accidents, I knew all else was just a symptom. He knows not to go in there, he just can't help it once he gets going.

I suppose I will begin to treat Bubba like a rescue, more so than I already do. I have phoned a couple of behaviorists... Scary, one said an "e" collar could resolve this within a week I said I would sooner put it on myself, that gentleman got a bit huffy " Mam, you are the leader, it is an animal!" No thank you goodbye. Have a few more to call.

I will read up on puppy mill rescues, thanks.

[MY OSCAR]

Originally Posted by PattiNumber_H

Nature's Miracle has become our best friend, purchasing by the gallon these days, I have even gone as far a creating a mild wash for his private part after he does his business, once I knew the pacing led to the accidents, I knew all else was just a symptom. He knows not to go in there, he just can't help it once he gets going.

I suppose I will begin to treat Bubba like a rescue, more so than I already do. I have phoned a couple of behaviorists... Scary, one said an "e" collar could resolve this within a week I said I would sooner put it on myself, that gentleman got a bit huffy " Mam, you are the leader, it is an animal!" No thank you goodbye. Have a few more to call.

I will read up on puppy mill rescues, thanks.

yeah, that does sound scary. how the heck is an e - collar going to help ?
you will know the right one....

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by PattiNumber_H

Nature's Miracle has become our best friend, purchasing by the gallon these days, I have even gone as far a creating a mild wash for his private part after he does his business, once I knew the pacing led to the accidents, I knew all else was just a symptom. He knows not to go in there, he just can't help it once he gets going.

I suppose I will begin to treat Bubba like a rescue, more so than I already do. I have phoned a couple of behaviorists... Scary, one said an "e" collar could resolve this within a week I said I would sooner put it on myself, that gentleman got a bit huffy " Mam, you are the leader, it is an animal!" No thank you goodbye. Have a few more to call.

I will read up on puppy mill rescues, thanks.

Unfortunately, anyone can call themselves an animal trainer or animal behaviorist, no license is needed. A vet may be able to help you find a reliable one. I’m glad you aren’t just going with anyone. While I believe that most dogs (and children) are happiest when they understand that someone else is in charge, I think there is a way to do this with kindness and confidence, instead of aggression. Anyone using an e-colar wants to take too many shortcuts and it may result in even more problems long term. Good for you for saying, "No thanks!"

By the way, since you are an avid walker/runner, do you take Bubba on walks? I do think this can help build their confidence and make them feel more like they belong to the pack.

[MY OSCAR]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Unfortunately, anyone can call themselves an animal trainer or animal behaviorist, no license is needed. A vet may be able to help you find a reliable one. I’m glad you aren’t just going with anyone. While I believe that most dogs (and children) are happiest when they understand that someone else is in charge, I think there is a way to do this with kindness and confidence, instead of aggression. Anyone using an e-colar wants to take too many shortcuts and it may result in even more problems long term. Good for you for saying, "No thanks!"

[PattiNumber_H]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Unfortunately, anyone can call themselves an animal trainer or animal behaviorist, no license is needed. A vet may be able to help you find a reliable one. I’m glad you aren’t just going with anyone. While I believe that most dogs (and children) are happiest when they understand that someone else is in charge, I think there is a way to do this with kindness and confidence, instead of aggression. Anyone using an e-colar wants to take too many shortcuts and it may result in even more problems long term. Good for you for saying, "No thanks!"

By the way, since you are an avid walker/runner, do you take Bubba on walks? I do think this can help build their confidence and make them feel more like they belong to the pack.

Yes Bubba walks with us all the time, Charlie and him get along well and even when Charlie runs up ahead Bubba will just stay by my side. Bubba plays well with other dogs, however it is pretty short lived, he can engage them for about 5-10 minutes and then just comes back circling me. Same with chew toys or treats, as good as the bully sticks are, 5-10 minutes tops before he is pacing again.

[kjc]

Originally Posted by PattiNumber_H

I don't believe I stated he is reprimanded for accidents, and no it doesn't matter the size of area he is kept in, for example, if he is walking around as I prepare dinner he will just do laps around the kitchen to the living room and back, if I let him, I eventually would tether him to me and continue, or put him in his crate and prop him up where he can see me. Constantly telling him good boy for laying or just sitting and watching. He eats extremely well and was tested for liver shunt at 6 months, vet was hesitant, I needed to be certain just because of the breeder's dishonesty. .

You stated:
" Bubba can go 3 or 4 days sometimes without an accident, but when he slips up, he totally loses it. He is crated, exercised three times a day, fed on a strict schedule"

Do you mean that he is crated all the time in general or only when he slips up?

If it's when he slips up, he's seeing being crated as a reprimand.

If it's all the time, he's feeling reprimanded all the time.

You cannot treat or train a Yorkie like a Lab, horse, or pig. They are totally different. They are different than all other dogs.

Your puppy is exhibiting those behaviors because he is in a kennel too much of the time. I have seen this before.

When he is loose in the house or where ever, he runs around because he doesn't know when or why he will be put in the crate again. He's not understanding this treatment, so he's going to run and make the most out of it while he can.

He may have even learned that when he poops in his crate, he gets to come out.

Yorkies are highly social dogs. They need to feel that they are a part of the family, 100% of the time. Being in a crate makes him feel unloved and unwanted.

My Tink came to me from a family that had 6 kids under the age of 12. She learned from them that dogs bring people toys and that's what makes them happy. Period. She drove me nuts the first week I had her, till I thought about why she was doing this 24/7. Short answer is: Kids play.

I decided to teach her how to enjoy down time, selfishly for my own sanity. I started out holding her in my lap for 20-30 seconds at a time. That was all she would tolerate. Gradually the lap time was increased as she tolerated more and more, till two months later she fell asleep in my lap for almost 2 hours.

She still loves to play, but now she also loves to be held and loved on.

Originally Posted by PattiNumber_H

If we take the dogs to the lake, a long day for us, tons of walking playing swimming for them, Charlie our high energy lab is spent, Bubba seemingly rests for a while (30-40 min) then he is back to his usual self, no he will no lay and be still next to me, that would be fantastic, I would not complain one bit. .

Will he let you hold him on your lap?

Originally Posted by PattiNumber_H

Of course I chose to reply to this comment not because it is of any use really, but out of defense. I have owned several dogs, livestock and horses from a young age, trained my pet pig at 16 (FFA in high school) to retrieve, when I ask for help, believe me when I say I have some idea and desire to have a healthy relationship with my animals.

Bubba is not happy, and more than anything I am sad for him.

I remember you from when you first came on here. I respect your training abilities with your other animals, I really do.

I have owned Yorkies for over 30 years, and a few other dogs, and worked as a Vet Tech for 20 years, trained race horses for 10 years, I have rehabbed 2 rescue Yorkies from the Humane Society, and have helped quite a few YT members with their problem dogs.

The technical term for what your dog is doing is: Dirty Dog Syndrome, but mostly for his acting out behavior from being confined too much.


http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...need-help.html

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...irty-girl.html

My intent was not and is not to make you defensive or to feel attacked by me in any way. I 'see' what the problem is with your dog, and you don't, yet. I think you are in denial that your methods may be failing this dog, you think it's his problem.

I won't comment further, other than to say I hope my posts may help others in the same situation, and that I do hope you find an acceptable solution to your dilemma.

My apologies to you if you feel I have offended you again. I am sorry, I only want you to be able to turn this situation around, so that you, your husband and your Yorkie can be happy together.
Sincerely wishing you the best of luck,
Kathy

[my2boyz]

O.k...just a thought but what about neutering? I know not everyone agrees with it but if he's not going to be bred it may make things easier. Neutering usually calms a male dog down and, if he is marking in your house, it should help with the accidents too.

[PattiNumber_H]

Originally Posted by kjc

You stated:
" Bubba can go 3 or 4 days sometimes without an accident, but when he slips up, he totally loses it. He is crated, exercised three times a day, fed on a strict schedule"

Do you mean that he is crated all the time in general or only when he slips up?

If it's when he slips up, he's seeing being crated as a reprimand.

If it's all the time, he's feeling reprimanded all the time.

You cannot treat or train a Yorkie like a Lab, horse, or pig. They are totally different. They are different than all other dogs.

Your puppy is exhibiting those behaviors because he is in a kennel too much of the time. I have seen this before.

When he is loose in the house or where ever, he runs around because he doesn't know when or why he will be put in the crate again. He's not understanding this treatment, so he's going to run and make the most out of it while he can.

He may have even learned that when he poops in his crate, he gets to come out.

Yorkies are highly social dogs. They need to feel that they are a part of the family, 100% of the time. Being in a crate makes him feel unloved and unwanted.

My Tink came to me from a family that had 6 kids under the age of 12. She learned from them that dogs bring people toys and that's what makes them happy. Period. She drove me nuts the first week I had her, till I thought about why she was doing this 24/7. Short answer is: Kids play.

I decided to teach her how to enjoy down time, selfishly for my own sanity. I started out holding her in my lap for 20-30 seconds at a time. That was all she would tolerate. Gradually the lap time was increased as she tolerated more and more, till two months later she fell asleep in my lap for almost 2 hours.

She still loves to play, but now she also loves to be held and loved on.



Will he let you hold him on your lap?



I remember you from when you first came on here. I respect your training abilities with your other animals, I really do.

I have owned Yorkies for over 30 years, and a few other dogs, and worked as a Vet Tech for 20 years, trained race horses for 10 years, I have rehabbed 2 rescue Yorkies from the Humane Society, and have helped quite a few YT members with their problem dogs.

The technical term for what your dog is doing is: Dirty Dog Syndrome, but mostly for his acting out behavior from being confined too much.


http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...need-help.html

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...irty-girl.html

My intent was not and is not to make you defensive or to feel attacked by me in any way. I 'see' what the problem is with your dog, and you don't, yet. I think you are in denial that your methods may be failing this dog, you think it's his problem.

I won't comment further, other than to say I hope my posts may help others in the same situation, and that I do hope you find an acceptable solution to your dilemma.

My apologies to you if you feel I have offended you again. I am sorry, I only want you to be able to turn this situation around, so that you, your husband and your Yorkie can be happy together.
Sincerely wishing you the best of luck,
Kathy

Wow! You think because you add "my apologies" to your post you can excuse your uncouth remarks. Your obtuse demeanor is completely off-putting to say the least and although you may have some valid information, you are extremely abrasive and may not reach those that would otherwise benefit from it.

I wish you all the best, although I am challenged by my puppy, I try daily, to make this world a better place, your days, I imagine are uneasy if you are called to respond in such ways.

Good luck to you, and thank you, in perspective my problem is minuscule.

[kamax60]

Wow

[kjc]

bump...

[lovinmayorkies]

Goodness me!! I've just joined, but I'm gonna go in the deep end. Why are you crating your dog????? If you are in 95% of the time.. then why!!! Totally agree with kjc and you don't seem to want anyones advice unless they've got credentials so I won't give you mine.