Sparta shows defiance :(
 

Hey guys im new to these forums and also new to training a puppy, ive had dogs all my life but my dad was always the one training them.

I got Sparta 5 days ago so maybe im jumping the gun here. Sparta is about 4 months old and I feel like shes showing defiance when I am disciplining her and she wont listen. When i try to comb her she will not sit still, i even tried to use the treats she likes to try to get her to stay still to comb her.

While walking her, I started trying to get her to heel last night, quick snaps when she starts getting ahead, and now the next day she will not walk with me. maybe 4 months is to young to teach her to heel?

I will tell you I spank her with a magazine firmly but not too hard when she poops and pees where shes not supposed to. she also gets pretty defiant after that, but my dad had a hand full of dogs he trained using this method and worked flawlessly.

Shes picking up sit-stay-come-kennel rather quickly.

I dont know.

any suggestions? and how do you deal with a defiant puppy? the growling at you and some barking at her owner (me) as well.

treats
 

one other thing, how many treats is too many treats during training for a yorkie? i feel like i over did it yesterday

I would stop hitting her. I have had dogs my entire life and always found a firm No! to be way more effective. I want my dogs to learn to behave and want to please me...not fear me. When a pup has an accident on the floor, I say No! and take them right outside. Then, praise lavishly when they go outside. I use a timer to take the pup out regularly...give them plenty of opportunity to do it right and get praise.

Same with leash training. A sharp jerk is not needed. If they pull or get ahead, I stop walking and say No! and gently bring them to where I want them. Then praise.

I don't use a lot of treats in my training. I do lots of verbal praise and pets/cuddles. I only use treats once in a while.

My little Tink has quite the tude, too...LOL She has "broken bad" with me a couple times. Again, a firm No! works well. Also, establishing yourself as the leader is important. Basic obedience helps with that. Also, do things like pick up her food while she's eating and then give it back. Play games where she rolls over and shows her tummy. Teach her that play nipping is a no no.

It takes time, but I think that positive reinforcement works better in the long run. I don't want to break Tink's spirit and I don't want her to fear me. I just want her to learn how to be polite:)

Good luck!

thanks alot for the guidance quiver, i think im going to try that approach because i dont think Sparta is taking too kindly to the physical form of punishment. like, most of the time shes a good girl, but then there are those defiant times and i really do think are coming out of the physical aspect.

thanks so much for your help

Sparta is still a puppy, a baby. Please use positive reinforcement regarding potty issues. Please do not hit your dog with a magazine or anything else!!

First, you've only had this puppy for five short days. You've been hitting her with a magazine when she potties where she isn't supposed to potty. Next time she does that hit yourself in the head with the magazine for not watching her closely enough or not taking her out sooner. It's your fault and not her fault. As has already been mentioned, use ONLY positive reinforcement. With a yorkie, you will get nowhere using your current methods of training.

Second, give her some time to learn to walk as you want her to walk. Use only positive reinforcement for this training, or any training, when training your puppy. Five days is too short of a time span for a young puppy with a short attention span.

Third, I would show defiance, as well, if someone hit me with a magazine or jerked the leash, while I was on the other end.

Fourth, give your puppy some time to learn to trust you before you start with any hard training. She has been through a lot of changes from one home to another with different people and probably is missing her siblings. Show only patience, positive training, and love to your puppy. Be reminded that yorkies are very smart and know when they can trust their people and when they can't.

A loud "no" will work when you catch her pottying where she isn't supposed to potty. Be patient. This will take a long time.

You can use training treats, which are tiny, or you can break the treats you are using into tiny bites. Many people use cheerios.

Use her kibble or food.. instead of feeding her her meals for free make her or rather ask her to work for it. down sits and stays become meal time activity and help you bond with the BABY.

JLC

So let me get this straight, you hit a small breed puppy with a magazine when she does something wrong? Wow that's really is terrible. I am not some training wiz but I suggest you go out and get a few books on positive training. It works very well and the dog doesn't get hurt. Hitting with a magazine can cause a dog to be fearful of things and people. Also try going to to a puppy class. It really makes me want to cry that people still use that method when training a dog or puppy.

You don't have to hit them with a magazine to properly train them. If you even just hit your own hand for the noise would be better than hitting the pup. Yorkies are so tiny and hitting them with something could cause problems. If you have only had her for 5 days she is still adjusting to her new environment. And yes, unfortunately it usually means accidents in the house. And, sorry to be blunt, but if you don't want accidents in the house don't get an inside dog. In my opinion, hitting her will teach her fear of you. I really don't think that is the outcome you really want. There are many places that train pups. I know that even Petco does some training. I think looking into one of these might be your best option.

If somebody hit you, I'm sure you'd vocalize your dislike of it. She doesn't sit still and doesn't walk properly on a leash because she is a puppy. If she is truly being defiant (and my guess is that she is just being a puppy - puppies bark, talk - which could sound like growling, and bite), it is almost certainly because her owner is hurting her and she doesn't appreciate it. The longer it goes on, the meaner she will get. I would change your ways immediately or risk scarring her for life. By that I don't mean that you can never tell her NO, squirt her with water, etc., but no heavy-handedness. Enjoy your pup. Train her but don't be in such a rush to make her perfectly obedient.

With regards to walking, it took us about 3 weeks of constant 15 min sessions to get Gizmo walking good. You need to get her walking well first before "heeling". This can be done by showing her the treat, holding it in front of her so she follows it. After a few yards of good walking, give the reward. That how we worked with Gizmo, and it's been flawless from there..

With regards to hitting her with the paper. NO! BAD MOMMA! This simply teaches the dog to not potty period. The best way to deal with potty in the house is keeping her to a confined area and taking her out every hour and being CONSISTENT! If she potties in your house, like the other posters said, it's your fault. But when she does, and trust me, she will, don't make a big deal about it, and clean it up.

These dogs are very different. You need to be consistent and keep them on a schedule. We use the word "potty" always. "Want to go POTTY"
"Lets go outside and go POTTY". And treats, and lots of praise when they do good. These little guys actually love to please.

Do yourself a favor and throw away all passed notions you have on training, as well as that newspaper that you use. Yorkie training is completely different.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Sparta is still a baby and no hitting is necessary at any age to train a dog to pee/poop outside, on pee pads or walk on the leash. Sparta is still too young to "hold it" very long and disciplining her for what she cannot physically help will only damage your dog's psyche and your relationship. What you call defiance is the dog not wanting to participate in something that she sees is likely to end in unpleasance for her so she doesn't want to do it. She is telling you please don't make me do this - it will only get me hurt. If you want to train her to walk on the leash and she starts to pull on it, just stop in place until she stops pulling. Once the leash goes slack, start walking forward again. If she pulls, stop again until the leash goes slack and then restart. Keep following that pattern and encourage her when she stops pulling and offer gentle verbal praise. Eventually with a good deal of patience on your part, she will learn to keep a slack leash with no pulling if she wants to go forward which they all do.

For housebreaking, put her on a strict schedule and remember that a 4 mo. old baby needs to pee and usally potty after eating and drinking. Take her outside immediately after eating and tell her to "potty outside". Take her to the same spot each time and wait 5 mins. Praise her a good deal when she does her business. If she does not, this is very important, take her inside but watch her like a hawk and when she starts going around in circles, running about sniffing the floor and acting anxious, she is indicating she needs to relieve herself. Take her back outside and repeat the above. If she gets too excited or forgets and doesn't go in 5 mins., take her back inside and watch her very very closely. In 15 - 30 minutes, take her back outside again and repeat above words in same spot. But if, she inside, she does start to run and sniff, take her back outside and repeat the same words in the same spot. Repeat as necessary UNTIL she goes after eating. Eventually after eating and drinking, she will go if you are patient and watchful. Praise her lavishly and mean it - she has done a big thing in learning her housebreaking!

The rest of her activities are that when she is out of the crate, you are watching her closely or she is crated. When out of the crate, take her outside immediately after play sessions, grooming sessions, barking sessions, naps or anything that has taken up much time. Repeat the same words in the same spot as above and if she doesn't go, back on the same schedule. If she does, praise her lavishly. If not, repeat the same schedule above. When she is crated, only leave her in the crate long enough for her to nap or an hour or two but never longer than that unless you are gone from the house. Always upon removal from the crate, the dog should be take outside immediately to her same spot and told to "potty outside" and the above time limits, etc., adhered to.

Eventually she will get the schedule and begin to try to hold her urine/feces until she is taken outside. Never punish her for accidents in the house because they happen because you werenn't watching or missed her potty cues - and are not her fault. She is not balking or being difficult - just relieving herself when she needs to because no one took her out when she gave the indication she needed to go. She doesn't even know to signal to you at this point - she is just doing what comes naturally. Later, when she matures and has developed a trusting relationship with you, she will "tell" you she needs to go outside by running in circles and looking at you, standing and staring straight at you or barking at you and jumping around. Other dogs "tell" by going to the outside door and standing in front of it.

But whatever you do, stop hitting her as punishing her is no way to train a dog. It just punishes her for no reason as far as she is concerned and she cannot associate the whipping with what she has just done. She just thinks of it as being mean and doesn't know why she has been hit. Same with any punishment - it teaches a dog fear. Habitual training is what teaches a certain behavior to a dog. A good schedule and watching a dog closely is the only way to housebreak a dog successfully - I know as I have done it over and over and my dogs are clean in the house. So, stop hitting your puppy and train her and she will respond positively the way you want.

The OP also runs the risk of teaching her dog NOT to potty in from of her new owner. Heavy handedness teaches dogs to hide their potty needs. The dog would rather hide their potty behind the couch, under the bed, in a dark corner, etc and never go in front of humans, even if outside. Hitting teaches them "they see me potty, I get hit" which is the opposite of what anyone wants. To some it might seem like defiance, or even that a dog might be to dumb to be potty trained, when in fact, the problem is the human taught them "not to get it."

Excellent post with solutions. OP, read this - very good advice here and thanks for posting looking for other options! :thumbup:

One thing you have to remember is that she is a BABY and won't learn things INSTANTLY. Hitting her is only going to make her afraid of you, and she definitely won't learn anything when she's cowering in fear. She will never forget how you hit her, and that trust is slow to rebuild. Look on the Training Forum here for tips on how to use POSITIVE training methods. Patience is the key. You'll get more out of her with positive methods, and you'll both be happier.

:thumbup:

There is so much I want to say here but I like not being :banned:
So:
aggression breeds aggression

praise not punishment

training take more than 5days

where did this puppy come from?

are you using a harness on a short leash for your yorkie? IF NOT GET ONE please it aids significantly!

why else would a yorkie even need to heel?
Do you even know why you teach a dog to heel and what type needs it? I'm guessing no?

maybe he's scared of the brush-my dog literally ran from it and lost bladder and bowl control at the site of one...maybe he was whacked with one like you do with the magazine

Next you'll be posting about how puppy is shredding all magazines in the house...:rolleyes:

sit stay come kennel in 5 days wow brilliant dog reward that!:thumbup:

I think the potty stuff was covered by others already...especially what to do with the magazine...FYI they are actually meant for reading...like the training section here and the sticky(s) on potty training a preset feeding and walking schedule etc.

YorkieTalkJilly gave you some excellent advice, please follow it. Your little girl is 4 months old and trust me it can take some time training a Yorkie.

As for walking on a leash, get a harness and a short leash and start slow. Sparta is looking at you as her Mother now, Mother's teach.

Please, please, please put the rolled up magazine down (or anything else you may be using). Your Sparta is a baby, she is very fragile, treat her that way.

Be consistent with training and make sure you make time to spend loving and cuddling also.

My father trained 2 german shepards, a collie, a few other dogs including a small chihuahua the same exact way. all dogs were pefectly house broken and the most loving pets i have ever known. So i honestly dont think you should rule out a little physical punishment.

like i said sometimes she is defiant, but most of the time she is a really good dog and still so very loving to me. so i dont think it will harm her relationship with me, as it did not with my father and our other dogs.

I tried the yelling at her and just verbally trying to get her to stop, but she still shows defiance and she only really stops with some physical punishment.

and believe me, i am in no way hurting this dog the way im hitting her. im hitting her firmly but not enough to actually hurt her.

And the personality of a chihuahua is similar to a yorkie. actually probably even more fiesty, and has a worse attitude all together, so if anything my chihuahua would have really hated me and my father, but she didnt, she was so attached to me and did not change with my father at all when i lived with my parents.

I think you have received excellent advice. The methods your father used are outdated. Trainers have learned new methods that work so much better.

It is like raising children, when I was a kid my mother used to beat my butt
But we now know hitting is not how we should teach ( displine) children. The same is true for dogs. If you hit -- you are teaching the dog to fear you not what you what them to do!

Also.....I hope you are using some type of no choke harness

Good luck

I agree with everyone's posts on how to train your puppy. (Eat, potty, drink, potty, play, potty, wake, potty).

My Jimmy is 4 months old and I could not imagine hitting him with anything. I've even refrained from walking him on a leash yet because he is so tiny. I am giving him break in time and he gets plenty of exercise in my back yard. I know not everyone can do this so if you're walking this tiny puppy on a leash there is no need to teach it to heel. Heel is good for dogs that pull out of control hurting or endangering themselves or their owner.

Just let your puppy go with the flow. Plus a jerk on a harness will not train any dog to do anything but not want to walk. (I am guessing you're using a harness because I know my 4 month old doesn't fit into anything but that, plus it's healthier for them)

Please be careful with your little booger and don't try to train it the same way your father trained his own dogs.

Good luck and be patient. The only thing I think a 4 month old should be learning is "potty, come and crate" or any other variety of those. Make training fun, not painful....

Just verbally telling her no probably won't work. I'm sorry...I should have been more clear:) This is what I do with Tink....if I catch her pottying in the house I give her a No! and immediately take her outside and say Go potty. Sometimes she will finish and other times not. If she nips at me, I give a No! and give her a chew toy. The point is that with every No, I give her the appropriate alternative. She is already getting that potty happens outside and toys are for chewing:)

It takes a lot of vigilance and sometimes I miss things....there's a LOT going on in my house at all times...LOL But, doing your absolute best to stay consistent is the key. I have 5 human kids and consistency is key there, too:) Also remember, don't expect pup to get it the first time...or even the tenth. I have had dogs that are just more compliant naturally and fall in line quickly...and stubborn ones that buck training every step of the way. Thinking about it, I have human kids that fall into these categories! Haha!!!!

Good luck!

I forgot to add....PRAISE!! If she does something "right" she gets lavishly praised.

For potty training, I have a little dial timer. I set it for 15 minutes. Then she gets taken outside and told Go Potty. If she goes, lots of praise and I reset the timer for another 15. If she doesn't go, we come back in and I set the timer for 10 minutes and try again then. We keep doing that until she goes and then we bump back up to 15. As she grows and gets the hang of potty training, we gradually increase the time between outside times.

OP, if I screamed in your face really loud (a Yorkie's hearing is very, very good) what would you do?

Well, if it was a baby that you'd yell at, he or she would be terrified and probably mess their diaper, cry, not want to come near you...etc.

Think of this pup as a baby. If you wouldn't do it to a baby, then don't do it to a puppy. The learning curve is similar so patience and a soft hand is going to be needed.

Just like with a baby, if he or she does something right you praise, praise, praise! If they do something wrong, you don't smack the child with a newspaper or scream at it (I would hope not at least). You ignore the mistakes and make a bigger then life deal about the accomplishments.

One more thing. To quote you to say a little "punishment" is needed.
How in the H-E-double hockey sticks is smacking a dog punishment? A dog does not understand that concept. I doesn't get "OH! I was bad so this is what I get!" All that it understands is "Smack, smack, smack!" Which then leads to fear and mistrust!

I'm relieved this worked for your Dad's dogs, but guess what? It's not working for your pup so I guess you're going to have to completely retrain yourself, and your thought process.