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:rolleyes:

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If your "real" then I feel extremely bad for your little yorkie, and the future she has ahead of her. :thumbdown You were provided GREAT advice by yorkietalkjilly and instead of implementing change you still think your ways are correct.

Let me give you a bit of advice though. Hitting a dog does not establish pack leadership. It only establishes FEAR. :mad: Being the alpha (I'm guessing you already know that male AND female dogs can be alpha so I won't address that) involves being the pack leader in EVERY thing you do!

-the way the dog is fed
-the way the dog is played with
-who crosses doorways first
-where the dog is when YOU eat
-being invited up vs. jumping in your lap
-where the dog sleeps
-where the dog is when you are walking

Secondly dogs don't roll up magazines and hit each other. :rolleyes: The correction you are trying to copy as pack leader, is not the same thing! The alpha provides a swift, sharp correction to the pack. The alpha is not "spanking" the dog, it is REDIRECTING its pack. Which can just as easily be done with a water bottle.

I can go on and on... I knew NOTHING about training yorkies when I got Kaos, but I am VERY versed in pack leadership. My rottweiler was 100% different than my yorkie. I learned that yorkies need A LOT of nurturing, (more so than any other breed I've owned) but will in return do ANY thing for you. You need to change your ways now, before you traumatize this dog for the rest of her life. :(

Oh and your wrong I only have an extremely low tolerance for ignorance, I am open to others views.

Wow, youre cool.

so im done with this discussion, or argument cause thats what you guys turned it into.

I don't know why you are comparing a dog and a child - you spank a child, you can explain to them the reasons behind it (ex. you are getting spanked because ______). Humans can communicate verbally. We don't have that connection with a dog and their thinking is totally different too. All that dog knows is that there is this large creature coming at me and hitting me with something that hurts. They learn to fear you and in turn can become either scared or aggressive. They do not associate "Oh I peed on the floor, owner is mad, I get spanked. Hmm... maybe I shouldn't do that again." Dogs can be trained without hitting. They can be trained with consistency and patience. When training my oldest yorkie, we used a crate. The moment he'd come out of his crate, we'd take him to his pee pad and he was not allowed to leave it until he peed. Shortly after he ate and drank anything, same thing. When we were relaxing around the house we watched him 100% of the time and learned his signals that he needed to pee. When we'd see the signals, he was taken to his pee pad. If we caught him trying to pee else where a loud (non yelling), firm "AH AH!" or "NO!" would stop him and we'd take him to his pee pad. If we could not watch him or were not at the house, he was in his crate. He was trained in about 2 weeks and now will pee on a pad or outside. Not once did we yell or hit him, but we gave a ton of praise and gave him a treat for doing what he needed to do. I feel sorry for any dog that "needs" to be hit in order to be trained because when that dog turns around and bites the owner or someone else, guess who gets blamed and usually PTS - the dog. Why? Because it was "aggressive". Why is the dog "aggressive"? Because it is afraid because it was hit. Start using consistency and positive reinforcement and you will start to see a different side of your dog, believe me. She is still very young and the damage can be reversed, but she'll need to learn to trust you before, so you'll have to be patient. I own a dog that was obviously hit and abused and only after 6 months of him dealing with that, it's taken me 4 years to reverse the damage done to him and while he's come a long way, I still see the effects of what it's done to him. Do Sparta a favor and stop hitting her.

No just ones who hit there dog.................

I'm sorry, but it seems to me that you DON'T really want help at all. You've also lumped in all posters together as if all comments or advice were terrible to you. I posted my advice to you in a friendly manner with no harsh words except to advise do not hit the dog with anything. Why did you even ask for help if you don't want to try it? Why not try it? If you really want the help, then ignore what you consider to be rude comments, take the good advice and try it out! If your way is not working, then this way might! You also are accusing us of projecting HUMAN emotions on our pets, but you yourself are doing it when you say the dog comes back begging for forgiveness, forgiveness is a HUMAN emotion! There are some emotions that animals and people share by the way, fear and love being among them. Dogs are pack animals just like wolves and even the omega wolf in a pack will still stay with the pack, submit and accept a beating. Doesn't mean he likes it though, he is just in FEAR! This is what many are trying to say to you. If the fear of you isn't working, and it isn't working because the dog is growling, snapping, whatever you say she's doing, then just TRY the advise given here in the posts and see what happens. It may also turn out to be less work for you in the long run with less training time. Your original purpose is advice on training, but now only seem to be concerned with defending your methods ( which are not working and why you posted to start with ). If you don't at least try some of the advise given here, then I would say there is a troll among us.

Even if you are done with this discussion, I just wanted to point out one thing to you. No training, regardless of the method works overnight. It takes patience and persistent. If you have patients, a strict schedule to follow, and praise the good you'll see results. It's not overnight, but you will have a happy, trained yorkie.

Also, hitting can lead to submissive urination which is a problem in and of itself. The dog pees out of fear. That is harder to correct. If you hit/spank a dog that pees out of fear, it will only get worse. The only way to fix that is to gain their trust again. That takes months or years. My pup was adopted at 12 months. He was potty trained by his previous home, but he had that submissive urination problem. It took me about a year to fix that. You don't want to go through that. It's frustrating, and the pups don't understand why.

LOL :cool:

All I can say is WOW!!! You have got to be kidding me. I am so sorry Sparta.

This is your response :confused:

That's because there's no defense for hitting a dog.

this thread is crazy, but to anyone reading, anyone that can strike a little tiny dog and see the fear in their eyes when you swing that arm towards them is evil IMHO. I've seen Bentley scared to death over me coming towards him too fast because he thought I was going to hit him that I would never ever understand someone hitting a dog. Bentley was probably abused in his previous home because of the fear he has and his cowering behaviors even if you just walk towards him angry or upset. i've never hit him and yet he's still frightened sometimes when i come too close too fast. seeing a dog suffer in fear because someone else used to bring them harm and watching how they cower with you when you've never hit them or hurt them in anyways breaks my heart. knowing he's still afraid of whatever they did to him and thinks i would do it to him too kills me.

hitting isn't ok. it's damaging, scars them for life, and it's WRONG and animal abuse.

there is a HUGE difference between spaking a child that can comprehend discipline and hitting a dog that can't comprehend anything other than that a person brings hurt to them for some reason.

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I COMPLETELY agree!!!!!!

Side story here, My sister worked with a man who is a an amazing horseman. He used to work on the old John Wayne movies. I am telling you this man is brillant. Yes, I know, dogs are not horses.. but when I went for a riding lesson the best advice he ever gave me was,

"Animals do not rationalize. They do not understand why you are getting upset with them, but they do respond to kind words and gentle hands."

Now.. if that doesn't makes sense then I don't know what does.

amen!!!

Yuppers!:)

It's so hard... you get so you know when they need to potty... and you think they know how to tell you... then they lift their leg and pee on the entertainment center, and you want to scream... I have brand new carpet -- Martha Stewart Sharkie Gray high density... I diaper little Maxie when he's allowed into the carpeted areas. It's just a strip of car chamoix with a Kotex type pad on it with paper tape to close it. When he's on the hardwoods, he always uses the pee pads. If you don't want to live in a toilet, you may have to consider diapering.

All of my pets have ever been rescue's or adoptee's. My 11 year old mini doxie Penny still cowers in fear and rolls on her back in submission when I approach her. She used to submissive urinate as well, but now doesn't. If a voice is raised anywhere in the house for any reason, even if it's to let hubby know I need a roll of toilet paper from the other restroom, she cowers in fear. She shakes when anyone walks up to her too. She is afraid of being picked up and I can only imagine that someone used to throw her up against walls or to the ground out of anger. She also used to have seizures out of fear, YES! SEIZURES!!! We've had her for 8 years and in all that time I have never laid a finger on that baby or even had to raise my voice, but I too wonder somtimes if she thinks I would do those things to her because of someone who didn't have a heart or a clue! I know a rolled up newspaper seems like a big difference from slapping, beating and throwing, but in the dog's eyes, they are not!

I have a yorkie like that she is very submissive and nervous and there is no reason for her to be we have had her since she was a pup and no ones so much as raised there voice to her. I cant imagine taking a rolled newspaper and hitting her and the nervous fearful reaction she would have to that. There is no way I would ever want my dogs to look at me like that someone who instilled fear in them. Especially when there are so many positive motivational means to the same end.

OMG! "my dad had a hand full of dogs he trained using this method and worked flawlessly." ----well my dad used to kick our German Shepherds in the side so hard they would come up off the ground when I was little and I would stand at the door and yell and scream and cry and then lock him out of the house. Those German Shepherds never would leave the yard even with the gate open so yes his way worked...was it the right way? NO!
"I got Sparta 5 days ago so maybe im jumping the gun here"------simply..yes..yes you are.

talk to your vet about what is best training for your dog

Poor Sparta
 

All I can say is, POOR Sparta. If you would treat a poor 5 month old puppy like this, Please do the world a favor, do not have kids.

:thumbup::thumbup: beautifully said!

doesn't it just break your heart. it hurts that Bentley after more than a year still won't totally trust that I'm never going to hurt him. poor baby.

[QUOTE=RachelandSadie; doesn't it just break your heart. it hurts that Bentley after more than a year still won't totally trust that I'm never going to hurt him. poor baby.[/QUOTE]

Oh, boy doesn't it break your heart! You said it GF! She is unlike any fur baby I've ever had. She is naturally soooo smart. When I ask her if she wants to go out, she will jump up and down and go wait in front of the door. When I finally make it there, most times she is sitting right in front of my shoes. One day out of the blue, I said to her, Let me get my shoes on, and she circled around my feet and went and sat down right behind me, effectively letting me gain access to my slip on shoes! I was floored and from then on out, I always ask her to let me get my shoes! hehehe. She knows what I say when I ask her if she wants to ride to Grandma's house and makes a beeline right for the car when I mention granny or mail,lol We may never feel the joy of their complete trust, but we can feel good in the knowledge that we helped them. That we helped make this world just a little bit better of a place for the innocent. She still follows me from room to room and at least once every hour she HAS to touch her nose to the back of my leg, but the urination is gone now, she can make it for a few hours alone without destructive chewing, soiling, etc, but I still look at her sleeping sometimes and wonder how anyone could have been so cruel to her as smart and loving as she is! She has made my life so much better too and I love her so much that I have requested that when I pass away, if she has passed before me, that she be put with me so that she is never alone and we are never parted. She is my heart and I can't stand the thought of being without her. I know it must be the same for you! :animal-pa

hey guys. so its been a while and good stuff has happened so i figured id update you guys even though you guys hate me and really were closed minded. im also trying to show that i am NOT a troll.

first off... i STOPPED hitting sparta. at first for a couple of weeks, it seemed like hitting was working and I went on vacation with sparta also, came back home and then for like a month straight she was just not getting wee wee pad training. hitting was not working i could see she was just really confused.

so i thought it over again and thought about what you guys said about her being a different breed and whatnot, stopped hitting her and started just yelling at her. sometimes just very calmy talking to her telling her whats wrong and pointing to the wee wee pad. i still put her nose close to her mess (not in it, just close enough so she could smell) and also put her nose close to the wee wee pad telling her thats where she needs to potty.

IT WORKED, immediately i saw a gradual difference, she seemed like she was understanding. I new I had to post to you guys and thank you for your help (some of you). for about a week and a half now she has been going potty on the weewee pad constantly. a couple of times she did circle around it and stray to a spot she likes on the floor, i snapped my fingers and pointed at the wee wee pad and she came running to poo, it was amazing.

so im not gonna completly say that the hitting wasnt helping though. i mean at this point it could have been that in the back of her mind she remembers the hitting and doesnt wanna get hit and sees im not hitting her anymore. i dont know.

but thanks.

I don't hate you. I'm really glad to read there's been some good progress with Sparta.

Breed has nothing to do with it.

However I'm elated to hear you have stopped physically abusing Sparta.:thumbup: