Drawing Blood!

[kjc]

As this only happens when you are bathing her and cleaning around her eyes, maybe how you are doing it hurts her. Is the skin around her eyes turning red or look irritated? Does she have a lot of eye goop near her eyes? I have to use warm water or saline solution to soften it first on Tinkerbell.... if I pull any hair around her eyes she will bite me. And nowater in the ears, that is also very painful.

What are you using to clean around her eyes?

If this is what is happening, ignore all my previous posts,... except do not Alpha Roll her ever...

[megansmomma]

Once again, I had issues very similar to this when Pebbles was a puppy. She was so out of control when I brought her home (as a rehome) at 5 months that I could barely keep her in the sink. Her first grooming appointment she tried to bit the groomer and I was told to never bring her back. But, I went home and decided that I was going to fix her grooming issued and I have. When I bathed her I did not muzzle but I did keep her harness on with a very firm grip. She was bathed weekly and brushed daily. I'm not saying that my methods will work with this puppy but I sure wouldn't let a puppy bite and draw blood over bathtime.

Maybe if I am more specific in my method it might help. This is how I would prepare for a bath with Pebbles when she was small. It really helped and she is now very well behaved at the groomer as well as for her weekly baths.

I prefer to use the kitchen sink for baths. Since it's higher and (mine) has a sprayer I can get the job done quickly.

Gather all your supplies and place them within reach.
Make sure you have brush, comb, bands and bows set up in a separate area for grooming afterward. I like to use the top of my wash machine. I place a towel down and lay out all my supplies there as well. Make sure you have your blowdryer plugged in and read to use as well.

Place a small towel in the bottom of the sink so that puppy will not slip and feel secure.

With the harness on place the puppy into the sink with the water already running.
Hold onto the harness behind the shoulders at all time. She will not be able to bite you and you will have control over her movement. DO NOT let go!

Use the sprayer and hold it close to her body and start at the back of her head wetting her entire body all the way to the tail and under her body as well. Work with a purpose through the entire bath. DO NOT let go!

Rinse from top to tail and then apply conditioner and rinse.

Pebbles learned very quickly and after just a few times she did very well.

As for grooming afterward you can do the same thing. Do not try to brush or comb while she is on your lap. You need to set an area where she knows you mean business~grooming business! Always work quickly and with a purpose.

If you have questions you can always PM me and I will try to walk you through some of the other things that worked really well with Pebbles.

There is no reason for her to be able to bite you if you bathe her this way. Please don't continue with dominance it just will not work. You need to establish that everything she does needs to be earned.

Pebbles is not perfect and is still a guarder to this day and she is now 4 yrs old. But there are somethings that she is excellent at like sit/stay. There are certain commands that need to be establish NOW like darting out doors before you and gobbling her food. You should also work on these issues as well with her. I can open by front or back door and she will sit/stay (while quivering to bolt) until I tell her she can go. She knows to sit, paw, shake before she can eat too. All these things have help so much in getting many of her negative behaviors in check.

Please PM me if you have more questions. I want to help

[kjc]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

Once again, I had issues very similar to this when Pebbles was a puppy. She was so out of control when I brought her home (as a rehome) at 5 months that I could barely keep her in the sink. Her first grooming appointment she tried to bit the groomer and I was told to never bring her back. But, I went home and decided that I was going to fix her grooming issued and I have. When I bathed her I did not muzzle but I did keep her harness on with a very firm grip. She was bathed weekly and brushed daily. I'm not saying that my methods will work with this puppy but I sure wouldn't let a puppy bite and draw blood over bathtime.

Maybe if I am more specific in my method it might help. This is how I would prepare for a bath with Pebbles when she was small. It really helped and she is now very well behaved at the groomer as well as for her weekly baths.

I prefer to use the kitchen sink for baths. Since it's higher and (mine) has a sprayer I can get the job done quickly.

Gather all your supplies and place them within reach.
Make sure you have brush, comb, bands and bows set up in a separate area for grooming afterward. I like to use the top of my wash machine. I place a towel down and lay out all my supplies there as well. Make sure you have your blowdryer plugged in and read to use as well.

Place a small towel in the bottom of the sink so that puppy will not slip and feel secure.

With the harness on place the puppy into the sink with the water already running.
Hold onto the harness behind the shoulders at all time. She will not be able to bite you and you will have control over her movement. DO NOT let go!

Use the sprayer and hold it close to her body and start at the back of her head wetting her entire body all the way to the tail and under her body as well. Work with a purpose through the entire bath. DO NOT let go!

Rinse from top to tail and then apply conditioner and rinse.

Pebbles learned very quickly and after just a few times she did very well.

As for grooming afterward you can do the same thing. Do not try to brush or comb while she is on your lap. You need to set an area where she knows you mean business~grooming business! Always work quickly and with a purpose.

If you have questions you can always PM me and I will try to walk you through some of the other things that worked really well with Pebbles.

There is no reason for her to be able to bite you if you bathe her this way. Please don't continue with dominance it just will not work. You need to establish that everything she does needs to be earned.

Pebbles is not perfect and is still a guarder to this day and she is now 4 yrs old. But there are somethings that she is excellent at like sit/stay. There are certain commands that need to be establish NOW like darting out doors before you and gobbling her food. You should also work on these issues as well with her. I can open by front or back door and she will sit/stay (while quivering to bolt) until I tell her she can go. She knows to sit, paw, shake before she can eat too. All these things have help so much in getting many of her negative behaviors in check.

Please PM me if you have more questions. I want to help

I just want to add that I use cotton balls to clean around the eyes... and that saline solution is better to use than tap water bc tap water can sting a bit.... I want to help too!

PS: I don't blame you for holding her down (Alpha Roll)... you didn't know any better....

[ladyjane]

You can put a drop of mineral oil in your pup's eyes prior to bathing to protect them from the shampoo.

[My lil friend]

I think that each puppy is different and what works for that particular puppy must be found. I have used the Alpha roll on only one dog ever,but it worked. We have a chi that was trying to attack our 70lb dog,good thing he is soooo patient. It was never done when the dog had been aggressive. We picked a certain time of the day when the house was quiet. I never let it last more than 60 seconds,usually much less and always with alot of quiet talking,praise and a very special treat followed that only he got. It took 3 days for him to calm down. This was my last resort after trying everything else and it worked. I did get bit a couple of times during this and just didn't react. I also spent ALOT of time loving on,cuddling,and speaking to him softly to praise him. I would take him to a seperate room and spend quiet times with him and only him. He is the first chi that I have ever owned and has turned out to be a wonderful,obedient little boy. My husband,that didn't want me to bring home a chi, says that he is a great dog. He is also my daughters very best friend and that is why we got him.
Again this method doesn't always work. Just keep trying to find what works best for your baby and you. Lots of love mixed in and you will see results. Like people puppies,some furbabies take a little longer to respond than others,they are truely each an individual.

[kjc]

Originally Posted by My lil friend

I think that each puppy is different and what works for that particular puppy must be found. I have used the Alpha roll on only one dog ever,but it worked. We have a chi that was trying to attack our 70lb dog,good thing he is soooo patient. It was never done when the dog had been aggressive. We picked a certain time of the day when the house was quiet. I never let it last more than 60 seconds,usually much less and always with alot of quiet talking,praise and a very special treat followed that only he got. It took 3 days for him to calm down. This was my last resort after trying everything else and it worked. I did get bit a couple of times during this and just didn't react. I also spent ALOT of time loving on,cuddling,and speaking to him softly to praise him. I would take him to a seperate room and spend quiet times with him and only him. He is the first chi that I have ever owned and has turned out to be a wonderful,obedient little boy. My husband,that didn't want me to bring home a chi, says that he is a great dog. He is also my daughters very best friend and that is why we got him.
Again this method doesn't always work. Just keep trying to find what works best for your baby and you. Lots of love mixed in and you will see results. Like people puppies,some furbabies take a little longer to respond than others,they are truely each an individual.

I disagree, if you were bitten while doing an Alpha Roll, then you were doing it wrong.

I really hate having to disagree, but it is so important not to AR a puppy, it messes more of them up than it straightens out. You were very lucky in three ways. If the dog could move enough to bite, then he could have hurt himself, and you could have been hurt worse, and it could very easily went bad and the dog end up being worse instead of better.

And if you understood the psychological damage this maneuver could do to a puppy, much less an older dog, you would not post that you did it in a puppy thread, as others whose pups are going through a normal growth stage of biting will want to try it, and it's use was never intended for correction of this type of behavior in a young dog.

I beg of anyone who owns a puppy and is considering doing this Alpha Roll, please do not do it. It is not worth the risk of psychological injury or physical injury you could inflict on your puppy.

I adopted a 2 year old female 2 years ago tomorrow, and I gently rolled her over during play about 4 months after she arrived, just to give her a belly rub. She started to go catatonic... eyes rolled back in her head, front legs stretching out almost as if she was going to have a seizure, combined with a total loss of orientation.

I was stunned and stood there staring at her for a few seconds, trying to figure out what was going on with her, and quickly bc it appeared that her whole body was shutting down, possibly going into shock, and from there she could very well have died!

I grabbed her and righted her, and held on until she regained her balance, and gently talked to her until she became coherent again.

So no more belly rubs until she asked for them, which she does do now, on her own, she'll flip over on her back and look at me, or some days just on her side. I do not push the issue with this dog, and won't ever again. Thank God I was a vet tech for 20+ years, and I could quickly recognize the signs of what she was doing, and realized, in time, she was in trouble, and was able to reverse it.

The Alpha Roll, and any form of it, is very dangerous to do to a dog, especially a puppy.

If anyone is having trouble with a young or old puppy biting, please post a thread about it, there are many people here willing to help you, with proven, successful methods. Never roll your puppy. Ask first...

[My lil friend]

As I said before "EACH" dog is different. It didn't ruin my dog,just helped him understand where he was in the pack. He is now 6yrs old and a very well adjusted chi. Better than most that I have met,that is why I literally had to talk my husband into a chi.Now they spend most evenings together. Not knowing how much experience a person has in training a dog. I would certainly seek advice,which the op is doing and should still choose what is right for their dog,sense none of us are there. Just as I asked for help although I have trained not only my dogs but others. Everyone has an opinion and can give it,that is what the op is asking for. I simply shared what worked for only one of my six dogs.This does NOT make me incorrect. If there had been ANY adverse reaction I would not of done it again just as you experience,it was not a good thing for your dog. I believe that I even stated that ALOT of gentleness and soft speaking should be used at the same time,that there should be no agression on the owners part.
If it doesnt work then dont use it.

I think that it would also depend on how much experience a person has in training dogs,how many and how long.