6+ years old, had it up to here - need help.

[concretegurl]

Originally Posted by Luvdogs2

This might not win any favor, but I grew up in a time when I got in trouble, I got a belt. When I was good, I was rewarded - and before anyone says I was abused, I most certainly wasn't.

If my child bites or misbehaves, they will expect the same upbringing I was exposed to...and I too have 24 years of dog handling and training. I recieved my first dog at 10 years old. I have a good sense in what I'm doing, and have researched the Yorkie breed extensively.

What I'm trying to get out of this post is something I may have missed, but more importantly the ability to point this thread out to my fiance and let her read what others have to say and hope she acts accordingly.

Is this a joke...sometimes the truth is so unbelievable I just can't fathom it...absolutely incredible the closing statement couldn't be better...perhaps re-homing the dog isn't the best scenario...she should re-home you...

[celstu1]

Luvdogs2, I have faith in you. You can make Bdog a better dog and give her a better life and yourself in return will have a better life because of the bond you will create with her. She'll be loyal, loving and trained. Taking some dog classes with a trainer will help a lot and they are not that expensive. Look at your local petsmart or petco for classes. Yorkies require different training than a bigger dog. They are VERY stubborn and a yorkie owner does need to work harder with them.
I know you can do this and I can read in your posts that you care about her well being. Good Luck with her and find a class, at least one and see how it helps you and her.

[oliver44]

wow, omg..... i think everyone has been very nice considering the situation. i agree with everyone, please give the dog up for adoption!!! many people work & go to school & have very busy lives, only 2 choices don't have a dog or if you do give it as much love & attention as you can, meaning when you are home no crate,just a little attention kisses, pats, etc. & yorkies love to sleep with their owner.They are smarter than people & more trusting & loving if you ask me, it's obvious you don't care for this dog, so do the right thing. as for your fiance if i were her & read what you wrote i would get rid of you not her baby. sorry not my business but you put it out there. good luck to all of you, i hope it all works out.

[shamrocks]

Just some thoughts I have after reading this thread. First, I was spanked with a wooden spoon on the hand as a child my mom did not beat me nor my brothers and sisters but we did get spanked. My mom was very old school and so was my grandma I remember get a switch on the back of my legs. Corporal punishment can be a cultural thing. Second , the man stated that he hit the dog and has owned up to it not being a good thing. He is still posting and seems to be trying to learn from everyone. I do not know this man personally so I have to give him the benefit of the doubt until otherwise. What strikes me as funny is that we say share with us your problems and them we rip people to shreds when they do. I am not saying that we cannot voice our views but after we do we should try to offer up solutions without being snippy. We all make mistakes and should try to learn from them and that is what I see here a man that is trying to learn.

[Elle]

If you cared about the dog you would give him up or go to class. Did a previous boyfriend give this dog as a gift? I don't believe you can give him up or you would. You aren't intrested in going to class. This thread is a trainwreck.


For people that care. Walking a dog is not about exercise exclusively. If that's all it was for then you could put them on a tread mill for 5 minutes to burn energy. The reason you walk a dog on a lead is to stimulate them mentally. Expose them to new sights, sounds, experiences, establish pack ranking in a neutral territory. It's the best way to reestablish pack ranking on a daily basis. You cannot do this without the lead. Without the lead, you are giving up pack ranking. Bonding with the dog is work but it's something many of us find rewarding. You can't put little effort into it and expect a big result. You must establish trust.

As I've said many of times. You need class. You haven't put anything into this bitch except hurting her. The very least you can do is take her to class to learn how to correct this. You will not get it here. You are looking for more short cuts. There aren't any. There are too many things that need to be done. People are giving you so many bits and pieces, you need a simple structure that involves a new plan in your home. Please take her to class. You've upset me. Sitting on a keyboard asking for ideas isn't enough, do something. You don't hit yorkies. They don't deserve this. I've been bit many times. Hitting hasn't ever crossed my mind. This is horrible.

[Luvdogs2]

Shamrocks, you also deserve a gold star and a huge thank you from me. You have also been able to read the thread and see what I'm here for and what I'm trying to do. I agree that when honesty is displayed, many people can't grasp the content for what it is and how to move forward without clutching the past.

Ellie, the reason the thread has had moments of a train wreck is when people attempt to derail it. You have given some good advise, but you also placed a bar across the tracks too. It is because you put helpful information in your posts that I haven't added you to the ignore list as well. However, you also seem to be so sure of your FEELINGS instead of seeing the TRUTH in me. I don't wish to argue here, but if you read through the thread, it goes fine and the dialogue flows fine when people are working proactively. It's when people call me names or insinuates that I am some horrible person that I find myself compelled to defend where the wrong impressions have been made. I am guilty of responding to the chastising, but I AM receptive of the criticism when offered. I learn the most when somebody tells me I'm wrong in my actions or thinking when they follow it up with an alternative. I also find it a bit sad that you don't think that the information your fellow YT have to share is going to be helpful. That isn't a punch in the gut or anything, so please don't take it as so. Everything that was said and posted as an encouragement of training, processes or bonding ideas are all applicable ideas and sound suggestions. I would venture to say that most of the yorkie owners on this board did not need to go to classes or have professional trainers in their check book in order to develop routines and good behavior by their littlest family members.

To address taking a class - it's a great idea and all, but I don't have a set schedule on a daily routine. My duties at school have me busy, but it's a busy that I can't count on to have specific times off. 3 out of 4 of my classes require group projects and lab sessions. This means I have to meet with those 3 or 4 other students in each class to finish our assignments, labs and reports. Added to which, I'm a teaching assistant to the senior design class and I'm helping them with their projects around my schedule. I'm also employed on campus in the shop where I assist 2 other teachers by making testing apparatuses for their lab sessions and so forth. It is not uncommon for me to leave the apartment at 7am and not get home until midnight or later. Some days I don't have anything really going on besides personal homework so I am able to go home and study...but as I said, I can't watch the dog with one eye and do homework and complex problems in engineering with the other.

I've changed the idea of leaving her crated while I'm home and she's on a leash near me or tied up on the fiance's chair with a fluffy pillow to lay on. She's able to be out, see me and I talk to her while I'm working - even if it's to ask her about some algebra or other "thinking out loud" moments.

I can say this until I'm blue in the face - but I'll say it again. Rehoming - not going to happen. Do I want the dog rehomed - I hadn't even considered it, nor will I. Is it my dog - nope, but I have adopted it as I would a child or anything else my fiance had before I came to be in her life. No, we aren't married yet, but we are most certainly living and making decisions like we are. I bought a car before I proposed to her, but I included her in the purchase as a couple. Had she not said it was ok, I would not have gotten the car and I would have kept looking. We plan on our future together as if we already had made our vows before God and though we don't have the ceremony done, we are a family - and Bdog is OUR responsibility, and she will not be leaving OUR home.

I am getting ready to go back to school and see my girls. I have to finish up some laundry, lock up my shop, put my car away because I had a blow out last night and nobody has any tires in the size I need to fix the car. I'll have to drive my Jeep instead and come back when my tires are in from the special order.

I can't wait to see how the weekend went with my fiance and how much progress Bdog has made. I don't have a lot of confidence much ground was made by the response to my questions, but I'm keeping faith that she is learning and will get it down.

[Luvdogs2]

Originally Posted by celstu1

Luvdogs2, I have faith in you. You can make Bdog a better dog and give her a better life and yourself in return will have a better life because of the bond you will create with her. She'll be loyal, loving and trained. Taking some dog classes with a trainer will help a lot and they are not that expensive. Look at your local petsmart or petco for classes. Yorkies require different training than a bigger dog. They are VERY stubborn and a yorkie owner does need to work harder with them.
I know you can do this and I can read in your posts that you care about her well being. Good Luck with her and find a class, at least one and see how it helps you and her.

Thank you celestu1. You will be able to share in my accomplishments and be able to stand with everyone who has helped and been a source of encouragement as we progress to the goal. After school is over for this semester, I will have to return home for a few days a week to keep the business going, but I won't be gone for the entire winter break. I have one additional class to finish over the spring semester and I will still have my duties as an aid as well as my business at home, but I will not be as busy as I am right now. If a scheduled class is available with my schedule, I'll look further into it.

Hopefully the implementation of the ideas created over the last week will show such an improvement that a class will not be needed, but we'll keep that ace in the hole and use it if we need to.

[gemy]

Luv2Dogs:

I yes take my Yorkie boy to obedience and agility classes. And if it matters at all he is also a show boy.

I have read from your posts how busy you are, and I understand somewhat how life gets real busy at times.

But I would like to offer my support of an obedience class you can take your Bdog to. Why you may ask. Quite simply it provides a structured environment, a consistent training approach, and exposes you and your dog to other people and dogs focussed on a common goal.

I would like to share with you a situation my husband and I have found ourselves in. both experienced dog owners (like you),with our female import from Russia, a BRT not a Yorkie, has temperament problems. Now this is as you could understand in a 100 lb dog a serious issue. She is a "fear" biter. We did at home what we "knew" to do to try to address this situation not with great success. So we went to our working dog expert trainer. Did we have the "time" to do this, well not really, but she was and is our responsibilty. We spent what we had to, and more importantly invested the time and yes money to "rehab" her. She is much much better now. Thanks to Mike our trainer who gave us specific exercises and exposures to certain stimuli to expose her to.

As great as an on line forum is, we do not get to see your Bdog in real life, your interactions with her etc. This is very important. A good trainer will be able to assess your interactions and your dog. I can't emphasize enough the value of this.

[Luvdogs2]

Originally Posted by gemy

Luv2Dogs:

I yes take my Yorkie boy to obedience and agility classes. And if it matters at all he is also a show boy.

I have read from your posts how busy you are, and I understand somewhat how life gets real busy at times.

But I would like to offer my support of an obedience class you can take your Bdog to. Why you may ask. Quite simply it provides a structured environment, a consistent training approach, and exposes you and your dog to other people and dogs focussed on a common goal.

I would like to share with you a situation my husband and I have found ourselves in. both experienced dog owners (like you),with our female import from Russia, a BRT not a Yorkie, has temperament problems. Now this is as you could understand in a 100 lb dog a serious issue. She is a "fear" biter. We did at home what we "knew" to do to try to address this situation not with great success. So we went to our working dog expert trainer. Did we have the "time" to do this, well not really, but she was and is our responsibilty. We spent what we had to, and more importantly invested the time and yes money to "rehab" her. She is much much better now. Thanks to Mike our trainer who gave us specific exercises and exposures to certain stimuli to expose her to.

As great as an on line forum is, we do not get to see your Bdog in real life, your interactions with her etc. This is very important. A good trainer will be able to assess your interactions and your dog. I can't emphasize enough the value of this.

You are coming in loud and clear. I understand exactly where you are coming from and the intent of the message. I hope that next semester I will have a more relaxed schedule so I can be around the apartment more. I'm sure you already picked up on this, but with my schedule and my fiance working second shift, we don't see each other hardly at all except to sleep in the bed together. It's a short term sacrifice for the long term goal. Once school is done, it's onward to a 9 to 5 job, keep my side business going and starting a family with the marriage and so forth. We are both excited to do so and I'm excited for the expectations to come.

I'm glad to have the help here, and if the bits and pieces I've gathered are all part of Bdogs puzzle, I will have no problem finishing this. I might have to get some help with a class or trainer at some point, but everyone here has contributed in some fashion, and it is all going to help put everything in place.

[nana911]

I guess the best analogy is to compare a Yorkie to a child, literally. If your fiancee had a child when you came into the relationship, and you decided to love and 'adopt' the child as yours and commit to raising the child as yours for as long as the child lived and then began to have disciplinary problems with the child, then what would your options be?

Would you rely solely on the advice from a forum and at the same time state that you didn't have time because of your schedule? Would you crate the child? Would you point out the flaws in discipline to your fiancee and expect her to carry on while you are gone? Would you say you don't have time to seek professional help due to your schedule? Would you list a litany of your professional responsibilities as the reason for not seeking immediate help for your possibly special needs child now?

Yorkies are a special breed and more childlike than any other breed. They require the attention, training and care of a child. Until they are secure in their relationship, environment and training they cannot just be left alone on their own, in the same way you cannot leave an infant alone.

This dog has gone beyond that and been damaged in many ways. You have to not only start from scratch, you have to undo...this is going to require not only time, but your presence. An xpen is a good idea, walks are a good idea, playtime and bonding exercises are all good ideas but all require time and are suggestions to augment some professional help. If you cannot devote the time necessary then you need to re-think this entire endeavor.

You can laugh, if you will, that these are just dogs, but you have landed in a forum, where, these are most certainly not, just dogs.

And, btw, a mature male, if he cannot use the grammatically correct term for a female dog, i.e. bitch has some serious issues. Please don't tell me you say tinkle....LOL

[Luvdogs2]

Originally Posted by nana911

I guess the best analogy is to compare a Yorkie to a child, literally. If your fiancee had a child when you came into the relationship, and you decided to love and 'adopt' the child as yours and commit to raising the child as yours for as long as the child lived and then began to have disciplinary problems with the child, then what would your options be?

Would you rely solely on the advice from a forum and at the same time state that you didn't have time because of your schedule? Would you crate the child? Would you point out the flaws in discipline to your fiancee and expect her to carry on while you are gone? Would you say you don't have time to seek professional help due to your schedule? Would you list a litany of your professional responsibilities as the reason for not seeking immediate help for your possibly special needs child now?

Yorkies are a special breed and more childlike than any other breed. They require the attention, training and care of a child. Until they are secure in their relationship, environment and training they cannot just be left alone on their own, in the same way you cannot leave an infant alone.

This dog has gone beyond that and been damaged in many ways. You have to not only start from scratch, you have to undo...this is going to require not only time, but your presence. An xpen is a good idea, walks are a good idea, playtime and bonding exercises are all good ideas but all require time and are suggestions to augment some professional help. If you cannot devote the time necessary then you need to re-think this entire endeavor.

You can laugh, if you will, that these are just dogs, but you have landed in a forum, where, these are most certainly not, just dogs.

And, btw, a mature male, if he cannot use the grammatically correct term for a female dog, i.e. bitch has some serious issues. Please don't tell me you say tinkle....LOL

I'm not laughing on your analogy here. Not at all. I can say there is a good difference between children and dogs. As pointed out on the forum here, the mentalities between such are different where a dog is unable to cognate vindictive behavior and other forms of higher intelligence. Babies learn to speak and communicate in such cognitive behavior. No, I wouldn't crate a toddler. I wouldn't leave them unsupervised. I wouldn't do anything but what is necessary to raise them when I am ready to have them. I don't know that my fiance was ready to get this pup when she did...but I'm not dwindling on the past, I'm looking ahead.

It's not that I can't use the word, it's because I don't wish to in reference to this particular dog. I don't cuss much to begin with - usually when I'm physically hurt. I don't have issues, I must just think differently about things like that. I'm also around my nephews and nieces at times - so getting in the habit of using "clean" words happened a long time ago... On another note, I have a friend that doesn't know his father (detective, died on a accident investigation when another motorist hit him) - I don't call him a bastard because it's proper.

I'm listening to your suggestions. Believe me, no post is ignored or info in one ear and out the other.

[kjc]

I don't believe I suggested training classes to you bc I was aware of your schedule at this time, and there was a lot of basic things you could do at home to begin to turn things around for Bdog. Bdog did not develop into what she is today overnight, and she will not change into a better behaved dog overnight either.

After giving the situation some more thought, I think you, DF, and Bdog would benefit more by having a trainer come to the apartment, to access Bdog's lifestyle and attitude, and to access your and DF's interactions with her.

Also, this is something you could do right away, as a trainer could be scheduled on any day or evening you and DF are available. I think this may be better, as a trainer may see something that we here are not aware of, and you just haven't thought to mention. Not that you're hiding anything, just that you may not recognize something as being important, where a trainer would, and could make a better accessment of the situation, and thereby make more appropriate recommendations.

[concretegurl]

Ugh, in attempts to offer a possible solution I'd like to say this, training of this dog is not going to be easy, the best solution seems to re-home this dog with someone who is WILLING to give out the effort loving, training and providing a good quality of life.
If that doesn't happen, there has to be the realization that this will take effort, we are not talking about a puppy we are talking about a 6 year old dog who has ingrained behaviors.
1. Biting is unacceptable-but using physical punishment or simply caging the dog won't help it only repeats the pattern. Try a mussel (a soft mussel that allows for drinking while its on I can suggest several quality safe kinds if you private message me). Using a verbal command to discontinue this behavior works and musseling is a temporary part of the no-bite training not an end all. Musseling is used to stop biting as a last resort and to create a no-biting training platform. If the dog can be petted and learn to behave while musseled then soon they learn they can't bite and you can move on to step two.
2. Potty training is hard with older dogs or with dogs whom have previously not been house broken. The dogs needs a regular feeding schedule ACCOMPANIED by a walking outside potty schedule or it just won't work. Dogs need to potty about 30 minutes after they eat. I feed my dogs Innova small bites (the one with the Yorkie on it) kibble not wet food (wet food and treats are like laxatives right now for you)-it has brown rice which causes more absorption of the kibble and less piles less often. Cleaning any potty mess completely is mandatory if a dog smells any remaining potty scent they will continue to go there. Create a smaller area the dog is allowed in within the home to create the basis for no pottying in the house. Have yo considered a play yard area?-The same ones you buy for babies. This allows the dogs an area you can paper and use the grid removal system just as with puppies and while you are busy doing homework (which I should be doing now but I'm so concerned I'm using my time to aid you in this) the dog has a n area to play in instead of being in a kennel-which becomes a cage used that way and doesn't do a darn thing in aiding turning this situation around.
3.If you can try a couple things to tackle the biting and pottying in the house then you can see some progress and move on from there. THIS TAKES EFFORT! YOU GET WITH DOGS WHAT YOU GIVE>it really is that simple. I take breaks from homework to go for a walk around our block and I walk my dogs one at a time. This gives my mind a break to be clear and refreshed and relieves both some physical energy for me and my dogs...it's really that simple a 5 minute walk can do wonders-obviously a longer walk or many more 5 minute walks help but its a start and will help both of you.
Feel free to PM me if you need detailed advice musseling and so forth really is last resort type training and shouldn't be used as a basic training method. Remember dogs may not be as cognitive as people but what they lack in cognizance they excel in sensing how we feel and feel toward them...weather we "show" it or not. You really do get with dogs what you give...remember that.

[concretegurl]

Muzzling not musseling...stiniking auto-correct!

[Luvdogs2]

Originally Posted by kjc

I don't believe I suggested training classes to you bc I was aware of your schedule at this time, and there was a lot of basic things you could do at home to begin to turn things around for Bdog. Bdog did not develop into what she is today overnight, and she will not change into a better behaved dog overnight either.

After giving the situation some more thought, I think you, DF, and Bdog would benefit more by having a trainer come to the apartment, to access Bdog's lifestyle and attitude, and to access your and DF's interactions with her.

Also, this is something you could do right away, as a trainer could be scheduled on any day or evening you and DF are available. I think this may be better, as a trainer may see something that we here are not aware of, and you just haven't thought to mention. Not that you're hiding anything, just that you may not recognize something as being important, where a trainer would, and could make a better accessment of the situation, and thereby make more appropriate recommendations.

I'll call around in the next couple of days to see if we can get somebody over. I know my fiance has all week off because of built up vacation so it would just be a matter of when I could make it. I'll see what I can do.

I'm not trying to avoid it on all accounts, I just sit here and think which day would work the best and all I can think of is "well, I have this meeting on this day, this meeting on this day, work for Dr. ____ on this day....etc" and the only meeting times I'm getting is late in the afternoon and well into the evening. Maybe a trainer can make an adjustment and do a later calling?

I don't keep anything about me away or hidden besides the anonymous things. I know there are a few pointers that I have passed along to my fiance that she needed to hear. According to the popular suggestions offered by many of you, she's not doing some of the things that seem like a no brainer - but that is to credit you responders, because I was ignorant too.

Examples:
- putting Bdog on the floor for unfavorable behavior in bed.
- Diet
- No scolding for anything

There are more, but nothing as anyone would term unacceptable.

I do agree 100% that a third set of eyes would be of great benifit because a third party point of view (in person) would be of great advantage. Again, I'm not trying to avoid it like the plague, I'm just unsure of when I could make an appointment that I could actually stick to.