Help with crate training my "dirty girl"

[Fatalivy]

I now have a 14 wk old, who is in the crate during the day, just for training purposes. I'm home during the day and take her out every hour. So, lastnight i decided to do the laundry room thing with her and she used the pad. when she was in the ex pen, she would tear up the pads, pee and poop everywhere, but in the laundry room she didn't do any of that. she didn't even poop overnight, which is unusual for her. so i guess i will be doing her training the same way.

[JenniferLeigh]

When you catch her in the act, what do you do? When you find her droppings, what do you do?

I personally have never used pee pads, but it seems to me that she thinks it's ok to go in the house. If I were you (and keep in mind I'm no expert this is only my opinion) I would try to teach her to go only outside. If she had an accident inside, I would show it to her say "no" in a big mean voice and put her outside. Go outside with her for the first little while and when you see her go, praise her like crazy. Give treats, and associate a word with the action ie "good potty".


Some people tend to think that disciplining a dog without catching them in the act is useless, but I disagree. If you find droppings or she went in her kennel make sure she knows she has done something wrong. Don't rub her noise in it but rather show it to her and say "no" - then put her outside or on her pee pad.

I don't know, personally I think pee pads are great if you have a puppy or older dog or if you can't take them out (you live in an apartment). But IMO if you can teach them to go outside you probably should.

[jltwigg10]

I used the exercise pen and pee pads when I first brought mine home at 12 weeks. Over time they learned to use the Pee pad that I would keep out in the family room. They are now 6 and 7 months old but are 80-90 percent trained to go on the pee pad.

It sounds like you have a good routine with the laundry room thing so keep up the good work.

[kjc]

Originally Posted by JenniferLeigh

When you catch her in the act, what do you do? When you find her droppings, what do you do?

I personally have never used pee pads, but it seems to me that she thinks it's ok to go in the house. If I were you (and keep in mind I'm no expert this is only my opinion) I would try to teach her to go only outside. If she had an accident inside, I would show it to her say "no" in a big mean voice and put her outside. Go outside with her for the first little while and when you see her go, praise her like crazy. Give treats, and associate a word with the action ie "good potty".


Some people tend to think that disciplining a dog without catching them in the act is useless, but I disagree. If you find droppings or she went in her kennel make sure she knows she has done something wrong. Don't rub her noise in it but rather show it to her and say "no" - then put her outside or on her pee pad.

I don't know, personally I think pee pads are great if you have a puppy or older dog or if you can't take them out (you live in an apartment). But IMO if you can teach them to go outside you probably should.

When you 'catch them in the act', you pick them up and put them where they should be 'going', either peepad or outside. Then Praise and give a treat. When you find droppings, you clean it up, and say nothing to the dog. Word association is good but be consistent and say the 'word' only once, and only while they are doing the deed.

Telling a Yorkie 'No' if it's eliminating in the wrong place, may make them want to hide the next time they 'go'. They think that 'No' means don't go potty at all, not that you mean 'No, wrong place'.

Yorkies live 'in the moment' as all dogs do. Especially puppies. Showing them old poop means nothing to them. That's 'old school', but sometimes does work.

The new method found to be most effective, most humane, and quickest is through 'positive reinforcement' which basically involves rewarding the good behavior and totally ignoring the bad.

Yorkies are very sensitive little beings and to be scolded when they don't have a clue will confuse them and cause them to distrust the owner.

One of my dogs has a delayed signal. I keep a peepad mainly for her, she doesn't know till the very last second that she has to go. Progress is slow, but she tries to make it to the door, and many times it's my fault, I am not quick enough... though my dash times to the door behind her are improving also. Working on timing after a meal has helped.

When she doesn't make the door, she knows she's doing wrong, I can see it in her eyes and her body language. I don't say anything. When we both make it to the door and outside, she gets praise, which she loves, and a treat. So she does know the difference. If I scolded her, she would run behind a chair and 'go', rather than try to reach the peepad or the door, because she is very sensitive, and loves to please me, and scolding her would hurt her feelings immensely, and make her very sad.

[ourfirstyorkie]

Originally Posted by kjc

There is such a thing as 'Dirty Dog Syndrome'. You may want to Google that to see... I think Animal Planet did a show with a dog that had it. If you can't find suggestions... I can't remember exactly what was done but will try to research later... I would consider getting a professional trainer and schedule a meeting all with your vet. She's missing a connection in her brain, or missed some of her Mom's training as a puppy. It may take assessments, evaluations, and recommendations from the professionals to get her back on track.

I would have her skin and feet checked for problems, rule out hydrocephalus or any brain disorder, and have a fecal done to check for parasites (sent out to a lab, not the in-house kind). I'd request a thyroid panel done too, as the thyroid is very important in metabolism. Also, get her on probiotics and digestive enzymes, added to her food, and feed her twice daily... this will encourage her to eliminate after eating. If you feed all day long, they will poop all day long.

If not the crate, then yes the Xpen or the kitchen (room that is easy to clean). Keeping her in a crate where she has no choice but to sit in filth is never going to be the answer for her. Try to find a way to elevate the bowls (no plastics) either on the side of the X-pen or a raised feeder, to make soiling them more difficult. Or use a water bottle for dogs, if she will learn to drink from it. Monitor her intake to be sure she's getting enough. Maybe try elevating her bed slightly on a cardboard box.

Consider using a diaper on her. Are her stools very soft? Add 1 tsp canned pumpkin and or 6 (3 whole) green beans to each meal to add fiber, maybe produce a firmer stool. What are you feeding her?

Yorkies can be housetrained anywhere from 10 weeks to never. Most 'get it' by 1 year of age.

Many things can affect Yorkies. I have concerns about your dog and think a professional trainer could better evaluate her environment and routines to give you better suggestions. Many times, owners don't see certain things as a problem, when a trainer could spot something that you never would think to tell me, so my advice could be totally off-base.

I do give you credit and respect you for not giving up on her sooner. It's a ton of work to deal with this type of pottying issue.

The main concepts are to get her to potty at regular intervals on a walk, and to get any accidents cleaned up before she can access them, and clean up everything if she does make a mess asap.

I at least hope I have given you hope. These dogs can be helped. Hang in there. It takes a lot of work but the results will be so worth it! (I know I don't need to tell you that!)

Hi Kathy,

I feed Farrah TOTW. I give her 1/2 a cup a day. She generally will eat 2/3rds that amount. I give it to her at 7am and take it away at 8:30am.

I sadly agree that she may have "dirty dog syndrome". I googled it and read a lot and am very sad. Yorkies are notoriously hard to train and now I have the challenge of DDS along with it. I read that I should feed her meals on the bottom of the crate. What do you think of that? I also wonder if I took away the potty pads during the day and just took her out every 1/2 hour if that would do the trick.

For 2 nights now she has done her business at 9:30pm. So no poop in the crate in the morning. But I heard her this morning at 5:45am and ran down the stairs to take her out but she already peed in the crate. It seems that her signals to me are off. She lets me know when she does her "business" After she does it. Any idea on how to train her to "tell" me before?
I truly appreciate your input and will be giving the vet a call.

[Walt]

That's what we did with Walt. He would go in his crate and I would have to give him a bath every day so we set up his bed with his little blanket and toys and put a puppy pad down. He used the puppy pad all on his own.

We put him in our downstairs bathroom because that's the only small tiled room we have. We don't leave the toilet lid up so there is no WAY he could fall in. Unless his little paws grew thumbs or something and HE grew a lot more. So I think he's fine in the bathroom and I'm not worried about him drowning. We also have his bed on a folded towel and turn a heater on so the tiles not cold. He likes it and when we say "time for bed" that's where he goes!

[ourfirstyorkie]

Originally Posted by Walt

That's what we did with Walt. He would go in his crate and I would have to give him a bath every day so we set up his bed with his little blanket and toys and put a puppy pad down. He used the puppy pad all on his own.

We put him in our downstairs bathroom because that's the only small tiled room we have. We don't leave the toilet lid up so there is no WAY he could fall in. Unless his little paws grew thumbs or something and HE grew a lot more. So I think he's fine in the bathroom and I'm not worried about him drowning. We also have his bed on a folded towel and turn a heater on so the tiles not cold. He likes it and when we say "time for bed" that's where he goes!

Very cute. Good Luck.
Farrah has been crate clean for 4 nights now. I have been waking up on her schedule (too early) but I hope she will learn to have a clean den and "want" a clean den. I'm not sure how long it will take but I am already more happy.
Also, I started to give her a treat as she does her potty outside. A lot less on the floor of her x-pen the past few days and more on the pee pad as well. My best guess is that my crazy cheering wasn't enough praise and that the little "stinker" wanted more!

[kjc]

Originally Posted by ourfirstyorkie

Hi Kathy,

I feed Farrah TOTW. I give her 1/2 a cup a day. She generally will eat 2/3rds that amount. I give it to her at 7am and take it away at 8:30am.

I sadly agree that she may have "dirty dog syndrome". I googled it and read a lot and am very sad. Yorkies are notoriously hard to train and now I have the challenge of DDS along with it. I read that I should feed her meals on the bottom of the crate. What do you think of that? I also wonder if I took away the potty pads during the day and just took her out every 1/2 hour if that would do the trick..

I strongly urge you to feed her twice daily. Give her 1/4 cup in the AM, on the crate or floor is fine, bc she will finish that amount. Then give her the other 1/4 between 5-7 PM. Feeding her this way will make her bowels more regular. These pups are too small to function properly on one feeding a day. The goal is to have her potty within a half hour of eating. It may take her a week or two to adjust.

Originally Posted by ourfirstyorkie

For 2 nights now she has done her business at 9:30pm. So no poop in the crate in the morning. But I heard her this morning at 5:45am and ran down the stairs to take her out but she already peed in the crate. It seems that her signals to me are off. She lets me know when she does her "business" After she does it. Any idea on how to train her to "tell" me before?
I truly appreciate your input and will be giving the vet a call.

The key times to take her out are:
1. Very first thing in the morning (even if she already went in her crate.)
2. 10-20 minutes after each meal. A walk will help her digestion.
3. After playtime, and after naps (or periods of inactivity)
4.The very last thing before you go to bed at night.
5. Whenever you come home from being out, take her out first thing.
6. Take her out right before you leave the house.
7. For intense housetraining: take her out every two hours, in addition to the times above. If she's still having accidents make it every hour, (or 1/2 hour) and gradually extend the time as she becomes successful.

Once she gets in the habit of getting a treat for pottying outside, she should figure out that she needs to get your attention to make that happen and get the treat. Or there are bells to hang on the door that she can be taught to ring before going outside. Be patient... one day she'll surprise you!

To learn her signals, you will need to watch her. Look for sniffing the floor, circling, running to the door. (Always use the same door to go potty from). With the schedule above and keeping an eye on her, eventually you will see her repeat some kind of behavior right before she goes potty. That would be her signal.

Originally Posted by ourfirstyorkie

Very cute. Good Luck.
Farrah has been crate clean for 4 nights now. I have been waking up on her schedule (too early) but I hope she will learn to have a clean den and "want" a clean den. I'm not sure how long it will take but I am already more happy..

Yay!

Originally Posted by ourfirstyorkie

Also, I started to give her a treat as she does her potty outside. A lot less on the floor of her x-pen the past few days and more on the pee pad as well. My best guess is that my crazy cheering wasn't enough praise and that the little "stinker" wanted more!

Sometimes it takes a bit more to give them the idea of what you want. Also, as you have more and more positive experiences together, your bond will get stronger, and you'll both be happier. Treats never hurt, and given appropriately can be a great aid in getting through to them.

Good Luck, and keep us posted... Just a warning: Yorkies sometimes slip back into an untrained state, like if you go on vacation or something.... just start over with her and she should get back on track within two weeks or so.

[ourfirstyorkie]

An update on my "dirty girl". Contacted a professional trainer and brought her to the vet.
The vet said she is fine and is a yorkie who are notoriously hard to house train. The trainer gave me some advice which has worked wonderfully during the day. We still have the issue of poo and pee in the crate at night. Now she stands in it but doesn't lay in it. (progress? LOL)
Today I have decided to go back to feeding her 2x a day to see if that will break the cycle. BTW, She is on TOTW Wetlands. (Fowl) The only "treat" she gets are cheerios at training times...which in all honesty is not every day.
thanks again KJC!

[kjc]

Honestly, I am amazed that you're seeing progress so soon! That is absolutely super!

As for 'being notoriously hard to housetrain', I'm sorry but your little one is maybe a bit way beyond that. (or was!).

The only suggestions I can make at this point would be to try her on some probiotics (to help digestion) bc I don't understand why, when she's on a morning feed, she would be able to poop at night. The probiotics would give her system any tools she may be lacking and provide for total and complete digestion of her food, and I hope may help in regulating her BMs. Nature's Farmacy - Store - Product Details I use this product ($13.95 for 8 oz) on my four and it lasts forever. They all have less issues with their tummies and diarrhea since I've had them on this product.

My final suggestion would be to sleep with her, preferably at night, but even if you could only do a nap during the day I really think it may help.

I know you've probably read where we all say Yorkies are different than other dogs. Part of the reason they are different is their ability and willingness to form a very strong bond with their humans.

Allowing her in your "den" at night would really help to establish or reinforce this bond.

Yorkies that are not allowed this type of intense bonding with their owners, I feel, are missing something vital in their lives, as are their owners.

I also realize that many people are totally against having a dog in their bed, and I guess I can understand it, but if they own a Yorkie... they are missing out on alot.

It would be showing her that she is an accepted member of the family. She may feel like an outcast being in the crate at night, and the pooping at night may be her way of 'acting out'. If you try this, and this ends up being what she needs... you may end up not having a problem at all!

The thing that leads me to believe this may be the answer is that you are, in effect, paying more attention to her, by having her on a strict schedule, and trying to learn her signals and watching her more. To her... this is all 'attention' or 'interaction'. (and it's working for her!) And because your vet gives her a clean bill of health, so there is no medical reason for her 'habits', I wonder if it is a bonding issue. Some Yorkies just need more of a connection to their owners than others.

If you're worried about her pooping in your bed, use an old comforter or something to ease your mind. Dogs try hard to avoid soiling the 'den'. She's not seeing the crate as 'her den'. The 'den' is where Mommie sleeps.

I am so happy that your are begining to see some improvement... especially so early into the training.

[ourfirstyorkie]

Hi Kathy,
I just want to thank you for your time, patience and educated answers to my "dirty girl" problem.
I ordered the probiotic you linked for me. I also fed her twice yesterday and am doing so again today. I also moved her crate up to my room. I let her out at 11pm, 1:30am and 6:20am with no poop. But I fed her at 7am and a few minutes later...poop! YAY!
I hope it continues. I have had Farrah's crate in my room before, but the last time I brought it back in she was very unsettled. So I brought her back down to the kitchen. Not sure if she will stay in my room. We will see. But I will say that I won't mess with success.
I truly appreciate everything! No one else took the time to "listen" I think everyone else thought I was just another kid with a yorkie pup and didn't have a clue. Well, I'm certainly not a kid (41) but may act like one : ) And I'm not crazy. I felt like I bought a pet store dog instead of a breeder dog for the longest time. Now at least I have some light at the end of the tunnel.
All the best,
Michele