Why can't they JUST get along.....all of a sudden?

[luckylady]

Well, for the most part they do, and they have, up until the last couple of weeks. Here's the deal:

We have 4 yorkies, two males and two females. The problem lies between Lexie & Halle, the two girls.
Lexie just turned 2 yrs old and was spayed earlier this year. Halle is just about to turn 9 months old, is not spayed (we'll be using her for breeding)and has not had her first heat yet. We got Halle in late March and she and Lexie have had no problems until recently. Nothing has changed in our lifestyle, or theirs, so I don't understand why this is happening now.
They have a love/hate relationship. We keep Halle & Toby in our bedroom whenever we are gone; Lexie & Lucky have the run of the house. When we come home and let them out, the first thing Halle does is go straight to Lexie, wanting to play, jumping in her face insistantly. It's partly a puppy thing I think, but again, Halle's not insistant on greeting Lucky. Lexie grumbles at this, but does not get aggressive. On the other side, I also notice that upon opening the bedroom door, Lexie seems to be looking for Halle (not Toby who is also coming out), and she also looks for Halle in other situations (going outside, one of them starts barking...), it's Halle that Lexie will look for right away; again, not aggressively, just seeming to need to know where she is or what she's doing. OR, if Halle & Toby are playing, Lexie has to get in there and either push herself in on it or break it up. Dominant behavior, I know.
Now the aggressive problem....Lexie has actually attacked Halle a few times. Each time it was at a moment when all the dogs were in an excitable situation; barking at something out the window, getting the leashes out for a walk, it's only when they are all overly excited about something. Lexie will go after Halle and has actually had a hold of her hard enough to make her cry.
So, we've been keeping a close eye on the two of them, correcting both Lexie when she gets to grumbley towards Halle, and Halle when she gets in Lexie's face to much. I am in the process of looking for/getting in touch with an animal behaviorist as I feel we need professional help. In the meantime, I thought I'd put it out here for some YT feedback. Am I doing the right things so far? Is there more or something different I should/can do to change this behavior before it gets any worse? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated and a few YT prayers wouldn't hurt either.
I might understand it better if it had been this way from the beginning, but why, oh why, is it suddenly starting up now? It's gotta be a female thing I would think, since Lexie is fine with the boys and the boys are fine with both of the girls. Oh, and Halle has shown no aggression whatsoever towards Lexie.

[altigger74]

It sounds like the little one is going to be going into heat and the spayed one is trying to enforce her dominance. I am having the same problem with my two girls. Lately Gracie who is 1 1/2 snaps at Bella (who turned 1 today) when they go outside or comes in. Other than that they are fine together. She doesn't hurt Bella at all and Bella just stands there and takes it (not submissive but not attacking her either). But it has gotten to the point that Bella will not go outside unless I go out there too. I spoke to my vet about it and he told me it was a dominance issue and that I need to reenforce that I will not put up with that and that I'm the big sh*t in the family not her.

[luckylady]

Originally Posted by altigger74

It sounds like the little one is going to be going into heat and the spayed one is trying to enforce her dominance. I am having the same problem with my two girls. Lately Gracie who is 1 1/2 snaps at Bella (who turned 1 today) when they go outside or comes in. Other than that they are fine together. She doesn't hurt Bella at all and Bella just stands there and takes it (not submissive but not attacking her either). But it has gotten to the point that Bella will not go outside unless I go out there too. I spoke to my vet about it and he told me it was a dominance issue and that I need to reenforce that I will not put up with that and that I'm the big sh*t in the family not her.

Thank you so much for your reply; gosh can't believe you're the only one so far

I had wondered if the heat issue might be the problem, or part of it. Halle is NOT in heat yet, nor do I see any signs at all (I've been checking daily), but I have wondered if maybe the dogs could sense it even BEFORE it was time. I've tried googling that scenario to no avail. Luckily for you, Gracie has not hurt Bella. Another problem with our situation is that Lexie is a teapot and twice the size of Halle; which may explain why it's easier for Halle to be hurt by her. So, I'll keep doing what we've been doing, keep searching for more answers, and hopefully be able to contact a behaviorist soon. Wish us luck.

[Belindtch]

I have 3 yorkies. Alyssa is 5 years old and was the only furbaby for 3 years. She never learned to play with other dogs...just mommy. She would bring me a toy and I threw it for her to fetch. She plays alone with her toys but not with other dogs. Then I brought Emily Kate home when Alyssa was 3. I was working full time and felt sorry for her having to stay home by herself so much of the days. Alyssa hated Emmy. She ignored her and had nothing to do with her. In March of this past year we added Lucy a four pounder to our home. Alyssa ignored Lucy for 5 months. She acted as though she was still the only furbaby. During this time Alyssa and Emmy have started fighting. They have had about 5 major fights. One fight ended up costing over $800 at the vets for Emmy. Usually Alyssa starts the fight and Emmy goes after her too. Emmy can jump up to my arms so if I have Alyssa in my arms I have to keep Emmy away from her. I went and bought a training collar (l0 levels of shock preceded by a verbal sound) to use on Alyssa since she was starting the fights. I spent over $100 for it at Petco and it is still in the box. I can't bring myself to use it.
The last fight occurred two days ago. I had all 3 girls on leashes in the walking park. They all started barking at a guy with 2 dogs. They all barked and barked with me saying "No Bark". Finally, Alyssa jumped on Emmy and a fight resulted. They would not let it die. They kept growling at each other. I managed after awhile to get one in the back seat and one in the front. I came home and let their daddy get them out and talk to them one at a time. They knew why they were in trouble. When he put them down they are fine.
I have decided that it is jealousy with my two girls. They both want quality time alone with me. If one is closer or getting something the other one is mad. Yesterday I took the older, Alyssa to the park...just Alyssa and me. We had a great time. She did not bark. She was very loving to me as if to say "thank you mommy...I love spending time with just you." Today I will take the middle dog and tomorrow the young one. That way one gets to go and two get to stay home. Maybe someday I will be able to take all of them together again. Hopefully!!!!!!!!!

[bchgirl]

Quite a few members have problems with females getting along.

[MyTrixie143]

Originally Posted by luckylady

Thank you so much for your reply; gosh can't believe you're the only one so far

I had wondered if the heat issue might be the problem, or part of it. Halle is NOT in heat yet, nor do I see any signs at all (I've been checking daily), but I have wondered if maybe the dogs could sense it even BEFORE it was time. I've tried googling that scenario to no avail. Luckily for you, Gracie has not hurt Bella. Another problem with our situation is that Lexie is a teapot and twice the size of Halle; which may explain why it's easier for Halle to be hurt by her. So, I'll keep doing what we've been doing, keep searching for more answers, and hopefully be able to contact a behaviorist soon. Wish us luck.

Dogs can sense them coming in heat a few weeks before they do.
Halle is right around the age to be coming in heat soon as well.
Usually I know when the girls are going to be coming in heat soon as the other dog's behavior changes.

If this all just started recently, there is a good chance that she may be coming in heat soon.

[loveshertiffie]

Wow! I'm so glad that I found this site! I'm a mom to a 10 month old yorkie girl named Tiffiny. She is such a sweetie! I also have a 2 year old mini daschund and before recently, they got along pretty famously. Last night, my daughter and I were playing around and all of a sudden my girls were going at it. Tiffiny was obviously the aggressor and when pulled from my daschund she fought to get at her again. I settled the situation and put the girls back down and Tiffiny went after Dutchess again!! I finally got the situation calmed down but for a while after, my Tiff would put her front paws up on top of Dutchess, I'm thinking it was to show her domanance over Dutchess. Finally things went back to normal. Poor Dutchess, for a while she looked so sad! From reading the previous posts, my daughter's and my play initiated the situation. Maybe she is coming into season? Any thoughts would be appreciated!

[loveshertiffie]

Wow! I'm so glad that I found this site! I'm a mom to a 10 month old yorkie girl named Tiffiny. She is such a sweetie! I also have a 2 year old mini daschund and before recently, they got along pretty famously. Last night, my daughter and I were playing around and all of a sudden my girls were going at it. Tiffiny was obviously the aggressor and when pulled from my daschund she fought to get at her again. I settled the situation and put the girls back down and Tiffiny went after Dutchess again!! I finally got the situation calmed down but for a while after, my Tiff would put her front paws up on top of Dutchess, I'm thinking it was to show her domanance over Dutchess. Finally things went back to normal. Poor Dutchess, for a while she looked so sad! From reading the previous posts, my daughter's and my play initiated the situation. Maybe she is coming into season? Any thoughts would be appreciated!

[luckylady]

Originally Posted by loveshertiffie

Wow! I'm so glad that I found this site! I'm a mom to a 10 month old yorkie girl named Tiffiny. She is such a sweetie! I also have a 2 year old mini daschund and before recently, they got along pretty famously. Last night, my daughter and I were playing around and all of a sudden my girls were going at it. Tiffiny was obviously the aggressor and when pulled from my daschund she fought to get at her again. I settled the situation and put the girls back down and Tiffiny went after Dutchess again!! I finally got the situation calmed down but for a while after, my Tiff would put her front paws up on top of Dutchess, I'm thinking it was to show her domanance over Dutchess. Finally things went back to normal. Poor Dutchess, for a while she looked so sad! From reading the previous posts, my daughter's and my play initiated the situation. Maybe she is coming into season? Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Hmmm, yep from all the replies I've read to this thread and the one I linked to in the breeders section, those would be signs of upcoming heat. Though I am still confused as to why it is my SPAYED female that is the aggressive one. In all of my confusion on what exactly is going on and why, I now also started wondering if there could be anything to the fact that if my spayed female had NOT been spayed, this would be about the time that she would have been coming into heat. Surely that couldn't be the cause of any of this, could it? As far as Halle goes, if any or all of this is due to her upcoming heat cycle, I sure wish she'd hurry up and start it. Lexie's behavior has been acting up for more than a week now and there are still no physical signs (swollen vulva, bleeding) of Halle being in heat yet.

[ScootieBootie]

I agree that she may be getting ready to go into heat, and along with the excitement could be triggering the aggressive behavior in your other female, and she is targeting her.

If you will be using her for breeding, getting her spayed is not an option. You will need to separate her from the other dogs, especially if your males are not neutered.

Address the cause of the excitement. I believe you mentioned taking them out and leashes being a cause? Desensitize them to the leashes. Start keeping the leash out and in their site at all times, so that it starts to mean nothing to them. I have my clients start by actually hanging the leash over their shoulders, wearing the leash around their waists, and keeping them on their bodies every day all day. Then I have my clients hang the leash over different pieces of furniture, on different door knobs, on the floor by different doors, chaning places so the dog gets used to seeing the leash in many places. Another exercise I do is have the dog sit and put the leash on then praise and take it off then praise. Repeat a few times without going outside.

Once the dogs stop seeing the leash as something to go nuts over, putting the leash on to go for a walk will no longer be a chaotic experience. And if you practice having them sit when you put the leash on and take it off, they will be calm during that process as well.

Hope this helps with the leash excitement and calms that trigger!

[YorkieMother]

Originally Posted by luckylady

Well, for the most part they do, and they have, up until the last couple of weeks. Here's the deal:

We have 4 yorkies, two males and two females. The problem lies between Lexie & Halle, the two girls.
Lexie just turned 2 yrs old and was spayed earlier this year. Halle is just about to turn 9 months old, is not spayed (we'll be using her for breeding)and has not had her first heat yet. We got Halle in late March and she and Lexie have had no problems until recently. Nothing has changed in our lifestyle, or theirs, so I don't understand why this is happening now.
They have a love/hate relationship. We keep Halle & Toby in our bedroom whenever we are gone; Lexie & Lucky have the run of the house. When we come home and let them out, the first thing Halle does is go straight to Lexie, wanting to play, jumping in her face insistantly. It's partly a puppy thing I think, but again, Halle's not insistant on greeting Lucky. Lexie grumbles at this, but does not get aggressive. On the other side, I also notice that upon opening the bedroom door, Lexie seems to be looking for Halle (not Toby who is also coming out), and she also looks for Halle in other situations (going outside, one of them starts barking...), it's Halle that Lexie will look for right away; again, not aggressively, just seeming to need to know where she is or what she's doing. OR, if Halle & Toby are playing, Lexie has to get in there and either push herself in on it or break it up. Dominant behavior, I know.
Now the aggressive problem....Lexie has actually attacked Halle a few times. Each time it was at a moment when all the dogs were in an excitable situation; barking at something out the window, getting the leashes out for a walk, it's only when they are all overly excited about something. Lexie will go after Halle and has actually had a hold of her hard enough to make her cry.
So, we've been keeping a close eye on the two of them, correcting both Lexie when she gets to grumbley towards Halle, and Halle when she gets in Lexie's face to much. I am in the process of looking for/getting in touch with an animal behaviorist as I feel we need professional help. In the meantime, I thought I'd put it out here for some YT feedback. Am I doing the right things so far? Is there more or something different I should/can do to change this behavior before it gets any worse? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated and a few YT prayers wouldn't hurt either.
I might understand it better if it had been this way from the beginning, but why, oh why, is it suddenly starting up now? It's gotta be a female thing I would think, since Lexie is fine with the boys and the boys are fine with both of the girls. Oh, and Halle has shown no aggression whatsoever towards Lexie.

Your not going to like my answer.... spacing dogs is as important as spacing human childern.. rule of thumb for human kids is two years apart.... for dog three years.... I know not many know this but dogs are not all grown up until three.

It done and water under the bridge now what.

Toss out the thoughts of dominance stuff and work on a relationship between the two dogs. Lexie is being a good dog and busting up or slitting up the dogs that are playing before a fight happens. She is being over sensitive and over watchful and being great actually at dog talk.

She not being dominate at all she trying to make sure things run smooth.
I support her in trying to settle the situation down before she feels she needs to step in and stop it. and or I supporrt her in passing out a treat if she stays out of it.

I'd love a Lexie in my life seriously !!!! She be a great and I mean this great rehab dog to work with fearful dogs. She goes in and slips things up and teaches a dog to control itself better and does not get rough unless she was too. That is a wonder dog.

I thinking she reading something is going on in the other little girls body and she not understanding and she trying to manage that in the only way she can.

Many and I pea green with envy can i have lexie Please can I please.

JL

[YorkieMother]

Still pea green with envy over a dog with great dog speak skills.
I was trying to say was that she is rare and very valuable anyone working rehab love to have her... if I was close I be on my knees asking to use her.

Google calming signals should come up with a few good atricles.

Carolark ..... Our Dogs' Language picture of splitting on above page.

You want to have a look at Turid Rugaas book on talking terms with dogs.

JL

[spiked_poodle]

Originally Posted by YorkieMother

Your not going to like my answer.... spacing dogs is as important as spacing human childern.. rule of thumb for human kids is two years apart.... for dog three years.... I know not many know this but dogs are not all grown up until three.

It done and water under the bridge now what.

Toss out the thoughts of dominance stuff and work on a relationship between the two dogs. Lexie is being a good dog and busting up or slitting up the dogs that are playing before a fight happens. She is being over sensitive and over watchful and being great actually at dog talk.

She not being dominate at all she trying to make sure things run smooth.
I support her in trying to settle the situation down before she feels she needs to step in and stop it. and or I supporrt her in passing out a treat if she stays out of it.

I'd love a Lexie in my life seriously !!!! She be a great and I mean this great rehab dog to work with fearful dogs. She goes in and slips things up and teaches a dog to control itself better and does not get rough unless she was too. That is a wonder dog.

I thinking she reading something is going on in the other little girls body and she not understanding and she trying to manage that in the only way she can.

Many and I pea green with envy can i have lexie Please can I please.

JL

Good post.

[luckylady]

Thank you all for your replies, suggestions, and concern. Everything I have heard here, in the breeders section, and via PM's will be taken seriously and I will do all that I can to hopefully bring peace back between my girls.
I was finally able to contact a local certified dog trainer and she came to our home last night. She spent almost 2 1/2 hours with us and the fur-kids, giving us lots of advice (many of which I have gotten here also), as well as working with the dogs a bit, hands on showing us what we can/should do to teach Lexie that it is okay for Halle to be in the household too. She seemed to think that rather than it being a problem of Halle possibly coming into to heat soon, that it was more likely an issue of Halle maturing from being a puppy (with puppy smells) to becoming an adult. She asked us if we could remember anything specific that happened with the first attack and pointed out that in the uproar of 4 dogs being excitable, Halle may have inadvertantly done something that Lexie did not like, and she attacked her for that reason & know thinks she can "correct" her at any other excitable time. The trainer also noticed while she was here that Lexie is VERY protective of me as she growled whenever the trainer got to close to me; another thing she taught me how to break her of.
Boils down to re-teaching and/or reinforcing to Lexie who is the pack leader in this house................ME. Most everything I've heard of, read about, and was told about here, but makes me feel a little better having someone actually come and see and evaluate our problem. So from now on, for as long as it takes, we are in strict training mode in my house. We are going to do our best to bring peace and harmony back into our lives.

[LuvmyYorkies2]

Originally Posted by luckylady

Thank you all for your replies, suggestions, and concern. Everything I have heard here, in the breeders section, and via PM's will be taken seriously and I will do all that I can to hopefully bring peace back between my girls.
I was finally able to contact a local certified dog trainer and she came to our home last night. She spent almost 2 1/2 hours with us and the fur-kids, giving us lots of advice (many of which I have gotten here also), as well as working with the dogs a bit, hands on showing us what we can/should do to teach Lexie that it is okay for Halle to be in the household too. She seemed to think that rather than it being a problem of Halle possibly coming into to heat soon, that it was more likely an issue of Halle maturing from being a puppy (with puppy smells) to becoming an adult. She asked us if we could remember anything specific that happened with the first attack and pointed out that in the uproar of 4 dogs being excitable, Halle may have inadvertantly done something that Lexie did not like, and she attacked her for that reason & know thinks she can "correct" her at any other excitable time. The trainer also noticed while she was here that Lexie is VERY protective of me as she growled whenever the trainer got to close to me; another thing she taught me how to break her of.
Boils down to re-teaching and/or reinforcing to Lexie who is the pack leader in this house................ME. Most everything I've heard of, read about, and was told about here, but makes me feel a little better having someone actually come and see and evaluate our problem. So from now on, for as long as it takes, we are in strict training mode in my house. We are going to do our best to bring peace and harmony back into our lives.

Whew! Rose..what a roller coaster ride you've been on(or are on)...I'm glad she was able to finally make it over there and physically see the environment you're living in right now. Praying that all will work out in the end...You are a good mom to your furkids so there's no doubt that you will be able to overcome this and bring peace back into the house and between the girls again! Best of luck to you and as always, we're here to support you!