Beware Deb Sillers, Amazing Yorkies

[magicgenie]

Originally Posted by lolassister

Rave Review, Deb Sillers - Amazing Yorkies

I bought one of Deb Siller's puppies 4 years ago and could not be happier. I have 3 Yorkies and this is the happiest, healthiest one of all. I can't say enough good things about this sweet little guy and the transaction I had with Deb. It saddens me to see this post because I know it will definitely impact Deb's reputation as a breeder and it should not. There are so very few good breeders available to those of us looking for excellent, quality Yorkies - to see one bashed in this way is awful. This is a breeding forum, not a business or financial forum. People come here looking for advice on breeders and see this review and naturally walk away with a bad taste in their mouth for Deb in general, when the exact opposite should be true. Unwarranted public shaming is hard to reverse and the damage has been done. I think there are so many other avenues that could have been explored to resolve this problem prior to this attempt to damage Deb's livelihood, and there is no other way to describe it. I would hope the OP has now seen the far reaching implications that her post has had, or might have, and will temper what she writes in the future.

I'm just trying to collect a debt that should never have gotten this old. Current negotiations still leave me short a good amount, but never mind that. The internet is a great tool for settling disputes with people who have a reputation to protect. I am curious to know about the "other avenues" that I apparently missed.
I get that you are friends/former clients of Deb. So was I. I purchased a nice dog from her in a transaction that went the way it was supposed to. That positive experience is why I tried to buy from her again and ended up with this mess. She has $3000 of my money for the past 2 years and all I've ever gotten for it is the promise a dog would be coming. Now I don't need the dog any more and she has no money to refund me.

[lolassister]

Other avenues???...you've said in your last line "she has no money to refund me"...do you think publicly shaming her and possibly cutting off her livelihood is going to help? Is that going to enable her to magically produce money she doesn't have at the moment? I would think you'd want to also protect her reputation so that she could continue to do what she does best - produce well-bred, beautiful puppies and possibly sell one so that she could pay you the money she owes, rather than destroy that possibility and leave you with nothing. Makes no sense to me and I don't understand, still, why this is posted in a breeding forum????

[magicgenie]

Originally Posted by lolassister

Other avenues???...you've said in your last line "she has no money to refund me"...do you think publicly shaming her and possibly cutting off her livelihood is going to help? Is that going to enable her to magically produce money she doesn't have at the moment? I would think you'd want to also protect her reputation so that she could continue to do what she does best - produce well-bred, beautiful puppies and possibly sell one so that she could pay you the money she owes, rather than destroy that possibility and leave you with nothing. Makes no sense to me and I don't understand, still, why this is posted in a breeding forum????

This is a breeder review forum for purposes of publishing reviews of one's experience with a breeder. I have told what my experiences have been with this particular breeder. One experience was very good, another very bad. Someone buying a puppy from her will most likely get a very nice dog, and we all know how hard those are to come by, but they should be very clear and business-like, getting the terms of sale in writing, before sending money. A small deposit should be enough up until the time the puppy is ready for shipping. I wish there were some kind of escrow service for these types of sales. I think conducting the money part of the transaction through Paypal may offer some protection. This is not my first bad experience with a breeder, and some have been worse. I take no money at all from my clients until they take ownership of their puppy.
I'm still waiting for you to tell me about those other avenues you mentioned.

[maxdog]

I have no vested interest in either side of this discussion. I have never bought a yorkie from Debbie and I do not know the OP. What I am reading about Deb’s history warms my heart. It sounds like she has provided many members here with healthy, beautiful furbabies and that is fantastic. This especially hits home with me because we purchased Max & Sasha from a “greeder”. They were in it only for the money and still are. They breed dogs with known genetic issues that end up, in good scenarios, cost the new owners thousands of dollars and in the worst case scenarios end up costing the life of the dog. I wish there was some type of regulation that would only allow people like Deb to breed but we don’t live in that perfect world. Seeing all the members come to the defense of Deb tells me that she is one of the good ones.

But there are 2 sides to every story and I can also see the OP’s side here. If I had given someone $3k and two years ago had still not rec’d what I paid for I would use every avenue available to me to get either my money or my product. I do not think this was a bad forum to post her issue. This is the “Breeder, Vet and Groomer reviews” forum. If a breeder is taking thousands of dollars and not providing what she was paid for I am thankful that someone is posting that here. I have one question for the people who are saying the OP should not have posted this here: If this post were about someone other than Deb, about someone that no one knew, no one had any history with, would you still be upset about being told that this person is taking money and not providing the puppies? After reading this thread I don’t think anyone, not even the OP, doubts Deb’s ability in the art of breeding. It is the business side of the breeding, and like it or not there is a business side, that Deb is currently lacking in.

I agree it is sad that it had to come to this. I truly hope whatever financial issues Deb is having are overcome. I am sure there are extenuating circumstances that we are not aware of and, after reading the testimonials about what a good person she is, my heart bleeds for her because I know what it is like to not be able to pay the bills. But I don’t blame the OP for posting here before taking legal action, e.g., contacting a lawyer who will charge hundreds of dollars just to write a letter. If this did go to court, the only winner is the lawyer. I know this will be a very unpopular statement but the OP did not damage Deb’s reputation. Deb did that herself. She took someone’s money, made a promise and nearly 2 years later has yet to fulfill her promise. But by her response it looks like she is standing up and taking ownership of that and will do what needs to be done to make this right. I hope both sides can amicably settle this and I wish both sides the best.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by magicgenie

I'm just trying to collect a debt that should never have gotten this old. Current negotiations still leave me short a good amount, but never mind that. The internet is a great tool for settling disputes with people who have a reputation to protect. I am curious to know about the "other avenues" that I apparently missed.
I get that you are friends/former clients of Deb. So was I. I purchased a nice dog from her in a transaction that went the way it was supposed to. That positive experience is why I tried to buy from her again and ended up with this mess. She has $3000 of my money for the past 2 years and all I've ever gotten for it is the promise a dog would be coming. Now I don't need the dog any more and she has no money to refund me.

So let me get this straight....you had no problem with her having this money until recently when YOUR health got bad and you decided to retire. NOW you want the money and you are not willing to wait for a puppy any more. You waited for two years!!??!! But NOW you MUST HAVE that money immediately and you are freely admitting you don't CARE about her reputation because bashing someone on the internet is often fruitful. Let me tell you this: if it were ME you were doing this to I don't know that I would have gotten on here and been as forthcoming as Deb has been.

As someone said, there are always two sides to a story. I actually said that I understand that you want your money.... but reading these posts now I am becoming less enamored with you. You can't stand that people happen to think a lot of Deb and her pups..WHY? I see this now for what it is...you said "beware" for a reason....to turn people against her. As someone else said, SHAME ON YOU.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by lolassister

Other avenues???...you've said in your last line "she has no money to refund me"...do you think publicly shaming her and possibly cutting off her livelihood is going to help? Is that going to enable her to magically produce money she doesn't have at the moment? I would think you'd want to also protect her reputation so that she could continue to do what she does best - produce well-bred, beautiful puppies and possibly sell one so that she could pay you the money she owes, rather than destroy that possibility and leave you with nothing. Makes no sense to me and I don't understand, still, why this is posted in a breeding forum????

Have you written to her? Often a letter will put a person on notice that you intend to collect the debt. WhenEVER I want something from someone I put it in writing if I even remotely suspect my words will fall on deaf ears.

In the past two years have you ever asked for your money or were you waiting for the right dog to come along in one of Deb's litters; OR, did you, as I suspect just spring this on her because now you have health issues and money is tight? Maybe, just maybe if you had been a bit more diligent...and expressed your dismay to her this could have been settled without this tactic ?

[ladyjane]

Maybe this will help although I think it is past this now.....but you asked about "other avenues":

https://www.wikihow.com/Collect-Mone...le-Who-Owe-You

[lolassister]

I'm not responding to this post to argue with anyone, I have no reason to. I'm not a breeder and I don't show dogs - I'm simply someone that bought a pup from Deb and was happy with the transaction. When asked if the original post were written about someone I didn't know would I be upset, that's a silly question - of course I wouldn't be upset, why would I? I wouldn't know either of the parties and would have no opinion about the matter; BUT I do know one of the parties and had an exceptional transaction with her.

Furthermore, we don't know what Deb's "promise" was to the OP or vice versa. Was there a time limit promised or even discussed? Was there a certain type puppy promised? Was there a contract that speaks to any of this? We weren't told about any of the details that might make a difference in how this was interpreted. Nor were we privileged to any of the conversations that went on between these 2 women. To say Deb has damaged her own reputation is a little presumptuous without knowing all of the facts. I, in fact, had to wait several months for my pup from Deb and he was only pet quality, certainly not "show" quality or "breeding" quality, which I assume is something specific to strengthen lines. I'm no breeder, so I'm not sure how all of that works, but I would assume those dogs that are to be used for breeding and showing are certainly not easily produced in every litter??? I also know from personal experience, to import a quality German Shepherd from top lines in Germany the MINIMUM wait is 3-5 years, so 2 years just does not sound THAT long. I'd wait 2 years for one of Deb's puppies now that I personally see the difference.

When I talked about other avenues, I guess I was referring to common human decency - understanding that people go through hard times and oftentimes by no choice of their own. I would have to look at their past track record and their intent; and before I publicly shamed or bashed them, I would have to stop and think about whether or not doing so was going to accomplish the goal I was setting out to accomplish, and if so, what exactly was that goal. Obviously, this is not a recurrent theme of Deb Siller's and perhaps the "end doesn't justify the means".

[matese]

Originally Posted by maxdog

I have no vested interest in either side of this discussion. I have never bought a yorkie from Debbie and I do not know the OP. What I am reading about Deb’s history warms my heart. It sounds like she has provided many members here with healthy, beautiful furbabies and that is fantastic. This especially hits home with me because we purchased Max & Sasha from a “greeder”. They were in it only for the money and still are. They breed dogs with known genetic issues that end up, in good scenarios, cost the new owners thousands of dollars and in the worst case scenarios end up costing the life of the dog. I wish there was some type of regulation that would only allow people like Deb to breed but we don’t live in that perfect world. Seeing all the members come to the defense of Deb tells me that she is one of the good ones.

But there are 2 sides to every story and I can also see the OP’s side here. If I had given someone $3k and two years ago had still not rec’d what I paid for I would use every avenue available to me to get either my money or my product. I do not think this was a bad forum to post her issue. This is the “Breeder, Vet and Groomer reviews” forum. If a breeder is taking thousands of dollars and not providing what she was paid for I am thankful that someone is posting that here. I have one question for the people who are saying the OP should not have posted this here: If this post were about someone other than Deb, about someone that no one knew, no one had any history with, would you still be upset about being told that this person is taking money and not providing the puppies? After reading this thread I don’t think anyone, not even the OP, doubts Deb’s ability in the art of breeding. It is the business side of the breeding, and like it or not there is a business side, that Deb is currently lacking in.

I agree it is sad that it had to come to this. I truly hope whatever financial issues Deb is having are overcome. I am sure there are extenuating circumstances that we are not aware of and, after reading the testimonials about what a good person she is, my heart bleeds for her because I know what it is like to not be able to pay the bills. But I don’t blame the OP for posting here before taking legal action, e.g., contacting a lawyer who will charge hundreds of dollars just to write a letter. If this did go to court, the only winner is the lawyer. I know this will be a very unpopular statement but the OP did not damage Deb’s reputation. Deb did that herself. She took someone’s money, made a promise and nearly 2 years later has yet to fulfill her promise. But by her response it looks like she is standing up and taking ownership of that and will do what needs to be done to make this right. I hope both sides can amicably settle this and I wish both sides the best.

I am not vested in Deb, never had any dealings with her, however I did read I believe on her website a couple of years ago when she moved to Oregon or was in the process of moving. Deb laid it all out for all to see.
2 years ago a new member came here looking for help on whelping her females first litter, the female was in trouble, Deb must have sent the OP a PM then called the new member and walked her through the whelping, as it turned out the one or two puppies died but the momma lived. Who does that, who calls a stranger and spends hours on the phone, that alone speaks volume of Deb. magicgenie has had past dealings with Deb, yes 2 years waiting for a puppy or money back is a long time but, you do not come on this forum and smear her name to get Debs attention possibly causing her to loose a lot of business. magicgenie is a breeder herself, she knows the consequences of defacing a breeder and that was the reason for her airing out her money grievance here on this forum instead of taking Deb to court. Hurt Deb's business and magicgenie will have to wait longer to get paid back, kinda like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[Susan78]

I think this woman who has trashed Deb and cut her down should apologize . I am not a breeder just a yorkie lover that wants a healthy pup. I said before my little Kinder came from Deb and she is nine years old now. We need more breeders like her in this world. My last yorkie came from a dysfunctional breeder where we had to deal with genetic IBD. Again I think it is awful to try to reck a good breeders reputation. I hope all on this site can see that Deb is loved for her honesty and good breeding. Susan

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by lolassister

I'm not responding to this post to argue with anyone, I have no reason to. I'm not a breeder and I don't show dogs - I'm simply someone that bought a pup from Deb and was happy with the transaction. When asked if the original post were written about someone I didn't know would I be upset, that's a silly question - of course I wouldn't be upset, why would I? I wouldn't know either of the parties and would have no opinion about the matter; BUT I do know one of the parties and had an exceptional transaction with her.

Furthermore, we don't know what Deb's "promise" was to the OP or vice versa. Was there a time limit promised or even discussed? Was there a certain type puppy promised? Was there a contract that speaks to any of this? We weren't told about any of the details that might make a difference in how this was interpreted. Nor were we privileged to any of the conversations that went on between these 2 women. To say Deb has damaged her own reputation is a little presumptuous without knowing all of the facts. I, in fact, had to wait several months for my pup from Deb and he was only pet quality, certainly not "show" quality or "breeding" quality, which I assume is something specific to strengthen lines. I'm no breeder, so I'm not sure how all of that works, but I would assume those dogs that are to be used for breeding and showing are certainly not easily produced in every litter??? I also know from personal experience, to import a quality German Shepherd from top lines in Germany the MINIMUM wait is 3-5 years, so 2 years just does not sound THAT long. I'd wait 2 years for one of Deb's puppies now that I personally see the difference.

When I talked about other avenues, I guess I was referring to common human decency - understanding that people go through hard times and oftentimes by no choice of their own. I would have to look at their past track record and their intent; and before I publicly shamed or bashed them, I would have to stop and think about whether or not doing so was going to accomplish the goal I was setting out to accomplish, and if so, what exactly was that goal. Obviously, this is not a recurrent theme of Deb Siller's and perhaps the "end doesn't justify the means".

Wow...what an awesome post!

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by matese

I am not vested in Deb, never had any dealings with her, however I did read I believe on her website a couple of years ago when she moved to Oregon or was in the process of moving. Deb laid it all out for all to see.
2 years ago a new member came here looking for help on whelping her females first litter, the female was in trouble, Deb must have sent the OP a PM then called the new member and walked her through the whelping, as it turned out the one or two puppies died but the momma lived. Who does that, who calls a stranger and spends hours on the phone, that alone speaks volume of Deb. magicgenie has had past dealings with Deb, yes 2 years waiting for a puppy or money back is a long time but, you do not come on this forum and smear her name to get Debs attention possibly causing her to loose a lot of business. magicgenie is a breeder herself, she knows the consequences of defacing a breeder and that was the reason for her airing out her money grievance here on this forum instead of taking Deb to court. Hurt Deb's business and magicgenie will have to wait longer to get paid back, kinda like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I have a bunch of those stories....Deb helping people with their puppies that she got NOTHING from. She truly loves the breed .. and is a good person. I have a puppy now that i really MUST share .. I have been so busy and I am trying to decide where to share it. The time Deb spent with me and others regarding this puppy was amazing and I can tell you that if not for her I don't think this puppy would have made it. This puppy is a miracle story and I promise this week to post her story... maybe in sick and injured so people can learn from it. And as to Deb's help with her...I suppose I can just link it to this ...

[matese]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I have a bunch of those stories....Deb helping people with their puppies that she got NOTHING from. She truly loves the breed .. and is a good person. I have a puppy now that i really MUST share .. I have been so busy and I am trying to decide where to share it. The time Deb spent with me and others regarding this puppy was amazing and I can tell you that if not for her I don't think this puppy would have made it. This puppy is a miracle story and I promise this week to post her story... maybe in sick and injured so people can learn from it. And as to Deb's help with her...I suppose I can just link it to this ...

I will be keeping an eye out for this miracle baby's story. God bless Deb for all she does in helping ppl pull these precious puppies out of harms way.

[Yorkie4luv]

So because Deb is a good breeder and she has financial problems how many years should magicgenie have to wait to get her money returned, I'm assuming without interest? She trusted this breeder and the breeder took her money! Maybe all of you should help out Deb and pool your money to payback Magicgenie, that would solve the issue, right? I mean, Deb has been there for all of you I assume for free, so maybe it's time to help Deb out, just say'n

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Yorkie4luv

So because Deb is a good breeder and she has financial problems how many years should magicgenie have to wait to get her money returned, I'm assuming without interest? She trusted this breeder and the breeder took her money! Maybe all of you should help out Deb and pool your money to payback Magicgenie, that would solve the issue, right? I mean, Deb has been there for all of you I assume for free, so maybe it's time to help Deb out, just say'n

I believe you have missed the point.