Vadzilla.com review

[theporkieyorkie]

I do like the fact that the owner of the site has taken the time to come here and listen to suggestions on how to improve the site. I also like the idea of having a forum on the site so people can ask questions to the breeders, like they do on here.

It would be cool to have a standard questioneer/profile that breeders could answer...with questions like...

Are your dogs Registered?
Do you have a spay/neuter contract?
Do you do home visits?
Do you require fenced in yard?
Do you ship??
Do you do genetic testing??
Do you have...dogs that you show~obedience dogs~agility dogs~dogs that hunt~working dogs~ etc etc
Why do you breed?


Right now, it just shows the name and the website of the breeder. It would be cool to have more info in that area....to help people decide if they want to further look at that particular breeder.

It would also be cool to have an question/ answer area under the review section for each breeder to individually answer on their profile, as well as a place in the forum section where every breeder has a chance to answer.

I also agree that one bad review shouldn't necessarily result in the banning of a breeder...but if there are several problems with a breeder, then hopefully Vadzilla will look into the situation.

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by theporkieyorkie

I do like the fact that the owner of the site has taken the time to come here and listen to suggestions on how to improve the site. I also like the idea of having a forum on the site so people can ask questions to the breeders, like they do on here.

It would be cool to have a standard questioneer/profile that breeders could answer...with questions like...

Are your dogs Registered?
Do you have a spay/neuter contract?
Do you do home visits?
Do you require fenced in yard?
Do you ship??
Do you do genetic testing??
Do you have...dogs that you show~obedience dogs~agility dogs~dogs that hunt~working dogs~ etc etc
Why do you breed?


Right now, it just shows the name and the website of the breeder. It would be cool to have more info in that area....to help people decide if they want to further look at that particular breeder.

It would also be cool to have an question/ answer area under the review section for each breeder to individually answer on their profile, as well as a place in the forum section where every breeder has a chance to answer.

I also agree that one bad review shouldn't necessarily result in the banning of a breeder...but if there are several problems with a breeder, then hopefully Vadzilla will look into the situation.

These are all questions that anyone interested in buying a puppy should know to ask. Lets give the buyers the responsibility to ask these questions, not make the Vadzilla site or the breeders responsible for filling out forms and answering questionaires. It has always been my contention that the only way to shut down puppy mills and close down poor breeders, is to educate buyers .....educated, informed buyers will not buy from poor breeders or puppy mills because THEY have been educated about what they should be looking for in any breeder they want to deal with. I do not think bad breeders will ever be closed down by going after THEM.....bad breeders will simply lie on forms and questionaires.......you have to educate the buyers...when THEY stop buying puppies from people that do not meet some basic concerns or questions that buyers should be aware of beforew they ever go puppy shopping, then bad breeders will go out of business, simply because of the laws of supply and demand. Make buyers accountable for their own purchases....if they are not knowledgable of what they should be looking for in a breeder, then they will not select a breeder because the breeder took the time to fill out a questionaire...they will continue to select pups based on price, distance from their homes, etc. Give the buyers the responsibility to know what they should be looking for in a breeder, and let them be accountable for what they do with that knowledge.

[theporkieyorkie]

That is a good point....unless the buyer knows what to look for in a breeder and what "red flags" to look for when buying a puppy, the above questions would be meaningless anyways...and anyone could lie on those forms. We already know that the puppymills/greeders are deceitful when they advertise their dogs.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by theporkieyorkie

That is a good point....unless the buyer knows what to look for in a breeder and what "red flags" to look for when buying a puppy, the above questions would be meaningless anyways...and anyone could lie on those forms. We already know that the puppymills/greeders are deceitful when they advertise their dogs.

I agree and about the "review" section, the breeder is actually allowed to review themselves.

[genesmasher]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

It is very important that people use the review to express first hand experience with any breeder they are reviewing, and not just going to the site and posting reviews based on hear say or on opinion....some people have a clear disdain for breeders using advertising at all, forming an opinion that they are automatically puppy mills, or byb's....this is so unrealistic, on so many levels. I think it should be a required detail that any review MUST include the date of the transaction the reviewer had with the breeder., as well as how the encounter with the breeder, closed.

We already have this in the rules for reviews on site - the experience has to be first-hand to be reported. Adding a date is a clever thought, thanks. We will think of a way to implement this.

[genesmasher]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

I submit this is sooooooo incorrect. Puppy mills, byb's, brokers, resellers try to get away with as little overhead as possible...not many have an advertising budget and those that do, certainly do not want to be subjected to reviews for all to see. They fly low and slow and under the radar,,,,they are much more likely to come to sites like YT and post their litters for sale (we have all seen those "breeders" that you hear from once or twice every couple of years, JUST to list puppies, never contributing to any other posts with information, etc)....and oh by the way....breeders are being watched by local law enforcment, AKC, PETA, HSUSA, etc...to be certain they do not have an excess of breeding dogs, and that they are not producing over the limit of puppies....dishonest breeders are busting these closely watched parameters and therefore they want to remain as non descript and "invisable" as they possibly can. Reality is, THESE are the people that will drop off this ad site....not the breeders that have nothing to hide. I think we have a rare opportunity to actually work with people that are trying to do this correctly, and we have the opportunity to help them develop their site where it will actually benefit breeders as well as people looking for ethical, responsible breeders with integrity and accountability.

Yep, this is our view as well. We will just have to wait and see if it is actually true.

Originally Posted by theporkieyorkie

I do like the fact that the owner of the site has taken the time to come here and listen to suggestions on how to improve the site. I also like the idea of having a forum on the site so people can ask questions to the breeders, like they do on here.

It would be cool to have a standard questioneer/profile that breeders could answer...with questions like...

Are your dogs Registered?
Do you have a spay/neuter contract?
Do you do home visits?
Do you require fenced in yard?
Do you ship??
Do you do genetic testing??
Do you have...dogs that you show~obedience dogs~agility dogs~dogs that hunt~working dogs~ etc etc
Why do you breed?

Right now, it just shows the name and the website of the breeder. It would be cool to have more info in that area....to help people decide if they want to further look at that particular breeder.

It would also be cool to have an question/ answer area under the review section for each breeder to individually answer on their profile, as well as a place in the forum section where every breeder has a chance to answer.

I also agree that one bad review shouldn't necessarily result in the banning of a breeder...but if there are several problems with a breeder, then hopefully Vadzilla will look into the situation.

Actually, breeder CAN add all this information in their listing. They can include upto 400 characters of text in there, and many of them do have descriptions (just look at Rosehill Yorkies listing). But it requires them to login and spend a couple of minutes actually typing these things in (yes, what a chore !!!) - we cant do it for them. The issue with the questionnaire you propose is that there is no way for us to verify any of the information provided...

By the way, breeders also already have an option to provide a "reply" to every review given, right under each of the reviews.

One of the few things we are considering right now is displaying "Breeder of Merit" badge for breeders that received this award. This is something that we can actually verify with AKC. The problem is, we are not sure if this is actually a good measure of breeder reputability - we actually have a poll on our home page right now - it would be great if some of your voted there:

Find a Breeder, Dog & Cat Breeds, Kittens & Puppies for Sale, Pet Articles & Forum - Vadzilla

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I agree and about the "review" section, the breeder is actually allowed to review themselves.

Nope, the breeders are NOT allowed to review their own listings (the system automatically checks against that). Of course, they can create a new user account and leave a review as someone else... We haven't thought of an effective way to catch these yet, but adding additional information to the review (like a date of transaction, details about the puppy, etc) may not be a bad idea. Ultimately, it is a question of how much effort someone would want to make trying to falsify data, just to raise their reported breeder "rank" on the site. One other thing we were thinking about was sorting "by ranking", but decided not to do it in the end. For now, our breeder search results are completely randomized, and a breeder with no reviews can still be on top of the pile, when users run a search. We don't think it is unreasonable to expect users to do their share of work and look through all the listings carefully.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by genesmasher

Yep, this is our view as well. We will just have to wait and see if it is actually true.





Actually, breeder CAN add all this information in their listing. They can include upto 400 characters of text in there, and many of them do have descriptions (just look at Rosehill Yorkies listing). But it requires them to login and spend a couple of minutes actually typing these things in (yes, what a chore !!!) - we cant do it for them. The issue with the questionnaire you propose is that there is no way for us to verify any of the information provided...

By the way, breeders also already have an option to provide a "reply" to every review given, right under each of the reviews.

One of the few things we are considering right now is displaying "Breeder of Merit" badge for breeders that received this award. This is something that we can actually verify with AKC. The problem is, we are not sure if this is actually a good measure of breeder reputability - we actually have a poll on our home page right now - it would be great if some of your voted there:

Find a Breeder, Dog & Cat Breeds, Kittens & Puppies for Sale, Pet Articles & Forum - Vadzilla




Nope, the breeders are NOT allowed to review their own listings (the system automatically checks against that). Of course, they can create a new user account and leave a review as someone else... We haven't thought of an effective way to catch these yet, but adding additional information to the review (like a date of transaction, details about the puppy, etc) may not be a bad idea. Ultimately, it is a question of how much effort someone would want to make trying to falsify data, just to raise their reported breeder "rank" on the site. One other thing we were thinking about was sorting "by ranking", but decided not to do it in the end. For now, our breeder search results are completely randomized, and a breeder with no reviews can still be on top of the pile, when users run a search. We don't think it is unreasonable to expect users to do their share of work and look through all the listings carefully.

I read it on your site they were allowed to review themselves. The point is though they can create a new user account or have friends and relatives review them, it happens here all the time, but YT'ers are pretty savvy and can spot them. I do appreciate the fact that you are willing to listen to suggestions.

[gemy]

I think this is a very good talk. Unfortunately I can't find a great article written by a breeder (not of Yorkies) about why good breeders should advertise on the net. It was posted somewhere here, but my search skills are sadly lacking.

One of her main points is that unless we do, we leave the field by default open to every bad byber and puppymill out there. How can a dedicated future owner find a good breeder if we are not out there?

My concern is how much time will I need to spend on my website (if I create one), for maintenance and handling queries.

And for some of you, please understand that home visits are not practical for many breeders. Anyone can visit my home, how-ever with a Rare Breed, we sometimes place pups in homes quite far from us. We can do all the reference checks, ask for home pics, investigate as well we can the answers on their questionnaires, but still I can't travel a thousand miles to actually do a home visit.

As a very very small scale breeder, already my waiting list is seven folks long. They have been on my list for a least two years, and will be longer if everything goes right with a gal I hope will have show promise. At least another 2 yrs of waiting for them. I do contact them every so often, and refer them to other breeders that I know and trust.

Why do they wait? I am not 100% sure. But it likely has to do with performance events that I am out there at obedience trials, and shows. Not showing conformation right now, but they see what I do.

[genesmasher]

Originally Posted by gemy

...
One of her main points is that unless we do, we leave the field by default open to every bad byber and puppymill out there. How can a dedicated future owner find a good breeder if we are not out there?

My concern is how much time will I need to spend on my website (if I create one), for maintenance and handling queries.

....

Two very good points, gemy. Many of the national clubs have breeder referral lists, its true, but the information they provide is often very limited, difficult to view and/or not current. And then there is a big question whether or not a potential buyer will even look for a club website. A single website where ALL registered, reputable breeders advertise, irrespective of breed - is the idea behind Find a Breeder, Dog & Cat Breeds, Kittens & Puppies for Sale, Pet Articles & Forum - Vadzilla. I am sure most people find puppy mills unethical and will not want to deal with them, IF they are given a choice... We are trying to offer that choice for them - all-in-one site, with user-friendly breeder search, breed info, articles, etc..

The second point is - for many breeders that do not have the time, resources or expertise to develop and maintain their own website, Vadzilla.com provides an inexpensive, simple solution to get their name out there. Any breeder can make a personal webpage at Vadzilla.com within minutes, literally. We have a template ready to go - just paste your own text in a pre-defined area and upload some photos from your computer. Done.

I am really glad the attitude here on YT has changed so much lately. It seems that most of you now listen with an open mind and make some really useful suggestions, which is what I was hoping for from the beginning. Thanks !

[nanahas3]

Personally if I was a breeder, I would not want my name lumped together with those of byb's and puppymill breeders. That is why there are organizations like YTCA they help separate them.

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by nanahas3

Personally if I was a breeder, I would not want my name lumped together with those of byb's and puppymill breeders. That is why there are organizations like YTCA they help separate them.

There are many excellent breeders, show breeders included, that do not join the YTCA organization for many reasons....I choose not to show my dogs, so I could not be a member of YTCA even if I chose to do that. YTCA only separates show people from people that do not show, and there are unethical breeders that not only show, but some are actually members of YTCA!! From past experiences with showing and all the politics and money involved in showing, I have no desire to go there again, (although I was involved in showing Arabian horses).....showing is showing is showing....regardless of what species you are showing, the expense is phenominal and the politics involved are no longer something I have a tolerance for. That does not dampen my enthusiasm for producing quality, healthy puppies.... I do occasioally get a hankering to get back into showing.....almost put a gorgeous Parquin male I have, with a handler.....then I pull out memory books and my descretionary funds balance book, and remember why I dont need to go there! As far as an advertising site like Vadzilla, excellent, responsible, ethical breeders are ALWAYS lumped in with BYB's and puppy mills EVERYWHERE on the internet, in everyday life, and in reputable magazines such as Dog Fancy.....responsible breeders will not sell their babies from the trunk of their car, they will not sell pups at flea markets and garage sales....but bad breeders are everywhere, not just on advertising sites. They will not stay where they receive bad reviews.....Vadzilla seems like a great opportunity for average people to participate in exchanging negative as well as positive experiences with particular breeders. Crooks and thieves and liars do not like exposure..... The ethical breeders will begin to shine quickly among the lists of breeders....the cream always rises to the top.....