Vadzilla.com review

[Ldyrev1]

Thanks for the review Lynzy, I'm sure it will help protect a lot of people!

[genesmasher]

Thanks for everyone's feedback. We are a new site and we do understand you concerns. First of all, let me emphasize that we do not condone or encourage puppy mills and backyard breeders. We are a small family business - it is simply not feasible for us to screen every breeder that decides to advertise on our site. Our core goal is to provide a convenient search tool for people to use, along with some basic information on every dog and cat breed. It is up to the buyer to do their homework and we are certain that those smart enough to do this will end up in the right places. However, we continuously look for effective ways to discourage "bad breeder advertising". Hopefully, with time, reviews should serve this purpose, but it will not happen next month. We ask you to please be patient, and don't jump to conclusions about our motives. If you feel really strongly about a particular breeder listed at Vadzilla and have first-hand experience - please leave a review.

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Just want to add that the site has a few reputable breeder listings, I guess it's free for two months and then they will take them off after that period, but if I were a breeder, I wouldn't even want my name on a site like that, not listed with known puppy mill breeders.

The bulk of Vadzilla database was created from many sources on the web (other breeder directories, regional clubs, etc.). Some of them are probably outdated, although we made an effort to verify most listings. All original listings are free until Sep 30, 2013. We gladly remove any listing, if the owner contacts us with privacy or other concerns (happened about a dozen times so far, out of 5000 listings). With time, we hope that the "bad apples" and breeders that are not in business anymore will stop advertising on our site.

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

That's the thing Nancy, what REPUTABLE breeder would ever want to be listed on a site like that? I think most would be very protective of their reputation that they've worked so hard to attain.

So sad and the ones who will suffer the most are the dogs.

There is a distinction between "experienced" and "reputable". There are plenty of reputable breeders that are just starting in the business and would like to advertise on sites like Vadzilla. We also have a large number of experienced breeders that like additional exposure, because they don't mind educating potential customers and referring them to other reputable breeders, even if they have waiting lists for their puppies/kittens themselves. They consider it "breed promotion". Of course not every breeder is as open-minded.

While that may be true that "reputable breeders don't need to advertise, they have waiting lists", it doesn't negate the existence of our site. Nowadays, not every person looking for a purebred dog or cat has the time to look through countless web forums and contact breeder clubs to find a breeder. It is 21st century after all, and younger generation wants things NOW, preferably on their phone

Originally Posted by magicgenie

I had a quick look at the Yorkshire Terrier breeders listed on that site and see MANY reputable ones there, including myself, and no, I did not ask for nor pay for a listing. I strongly suspect the owners of the site took it upon themselves to list breeders, and time will tell how good their intentions are. Let the buyer beware and do sufficient due diligence when selecting a breeder. The internet is a fun and interesting place that is loaded with good information and lots of pure junk, so approach everything cautiously.

This is a very sensible advice, magicgenie. We encourage every breeder listed at our site establish contact with us, and we will be happy to address any concerns they may have. Some of you already did (Rosehill Yorkies is one of them) - and might be able to provide additional feedback at this time, based on their experience so far. Best regards.

[impish]

I would like to chime in on this conversation with another point of view and that is AMEN to free enterprise and sites like EBAY, Amazon and YELP that have paved the way for the common man and women to review and post their purchase/buyer experience so that other's might make a better informed decision. Are these sites perfect? No. Are the reviews always spot on? Not always, but it's more information then I had before they were around and it's another piece of information to make decisions upon.

So a suggestion I have is - go to this site and look for the reputable breeders - I see several of them from Yorkie Talk - and RATE them well!

Go to the "greeders" and mills and RATE them if you've purchased a puppy and had a terrible experience.

Let's use this site as a way to actually LOG all of the information we have here on Yorkie Talk that is in hundreds of threads but isn't cataloged for anyone to easily find!

I have to disagree about this site being like puppyfind, kiji or Craigslist - none of those sites allow for a review mechanism. This does right?

Why not spend our energy making it work for the dogs and for the people purchasing them who don't know what they are doing?

Just a another thought.

YAY for Amazon, Yelp and Ebay. I use the reviews every day. And the review of other sites all of the time now. If the breeder I used to get Pluto was there - I would rate her high in a heartbeat and be glad to know someone else would have the opportunity to get a pup as awesome as I have. Peace out.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by impish

I would like to chime in on this conversation with another point of view and that is AMEN to free enterprise and sites like EBAY, Amazon and YELP that have paved the way for the common man and women to review and post their purchase/buyer experience so that other's might make a better informed decision. Are these sites perfect? No. Are the reviews always spot on? Not always, but it's more information then I had before they were around and it's another piece of information to make decisions upon.

So a suggestion I have is - go to this site and look for the reputable breeders - I see several of them from Yorkie Talk - and RATE them well!

Go to the "greeders" and mills and RATE them if you've purchased a puppy and had a terrible experience.

Let's use this site as a way to actually LOG all of the information we have here on Yorkie Talk that is in hundreds of threads but isn't cataloged for anyone to easily find!

I have to disagree about this site being like puppyfind, kiji or Craigslist - none of those sites allow for a review mechanism. This does right?

Why not spend our energy making it work for the dogs and for the people purchasing them who don't know what they are doing?

Just a another thought.

YAY for Amazon, Yelp and Ebay. I use the reviews every day. And the review of other sites all of the time now. If the breeder I used to get Pluto was there - I would rate her high in a heartbeat and be glad to know someone else would have the opportunity to get a pup as awesome as I have. Peace out.

I disagree about the review section being helpful. First of all, people who buy from puppy mills, don't even know the name of the breeder, they buy it from a pet store or from a cute name over the web. Secondly, pet store dogs might be healthy, that's not why we discourage people from buying from them, it's the inhumane kennel conditions. Third, people will give a positive review way too early because the breeder encourages the review and the person is happy about the puppy, this isn't a good reason to give a review. You really can't review a breeder until your dog is older and there are no major health problems, and you personally have checked the kennel conditions. Lastly, how do you know if the reviewers are being honest? I hope buyers who use this type of index, take the time to always visit the breeders home. I also hope this advice is posted on Vadzilla's website and they encourage buyers to check out kennel/breeding conditions. If your breeder doesn't want to meet with you, she isn't reputable.

[impish]

Nancy - every single new person that comes here and asks about breeders is asking for a "review" of some type! And we all give them. So of COURSE reviews are helpful. We just got lucky that they landed here. Why deprive the rest of the people who are going to buy a puppy one way or another access to reviews just because it isn't perfect?

People are going to be stupid people no matter what. Why not use the system to make it better??? What is the alternative?

You (and I don't mean you personally Nancy) say - "this is a bad site" but if you don't offer an alternative what do you think is going to happen with the general puppy buyer?

And I don't know if you've ever used YELP or Amazon but you can revise your review. Perhaps you can on this site. Maybe the owner will speak up? Perhaps this dialog will be food for thought and could actually be the start of helping fix the problem?

I don't know maybe you all can shut it down - but I for one found it incredibly daunting to slog through all of the reviews of breeders before I found the right one. The standard go to YTCA doesn't really tell anyone anything and honestly - that isn't the end all in breeder standard - there are several listed on YTCA where their websites conflict with shall we say what we think some of the standards should be.

I want to hear from REAL people - how were their dogs? I LOVE hearing from Lynze about Amazing Yorkies! I want an Amazing Yorkie after seeing what a great dog she has!! Why shouldn't others get the same opportunity??

Okay I'm done on this topic now and respect it if you feel differently - but I don't think this site (or any other) is going to increase puppy mills in any way nor will it stop them - and sadly nothing will BUT information - so why not use it to our advantage to as another way to get the information out?

Thanks for the good conversation.

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I disagree about the review section being helpful. First of all, people who buy from puppy mills, don't even know the name of the breeder, they buy it from a pet store or from a cute name over the web. Secondly, pet store dogs might be healthy, that's not why we discourage people from buying from them, it's the inhumane kennel conditions. Third, people will give a positive review way too early because the breeder encourages the review and the person is happy about the puppy, this isn't a good reason to give a review. You really can't review a breeder until your dog is older and there are no major health problems, and you personally have checked the kennel conditions. Lastly, how do you know if the reviewers are being honest? I hope buyers who use this type of index, take the time to always visit the breeders home. I also hope this advice is posted on Vadzilla's website and they encourage buyers to check out kennel/breeding conditions. If your breeder doesn't want to meet with you, she isn't reputable.

[mimimomo]

The sad reality is, the reputable breeders will not pay to stay on the vadzilla site. The ones who might actually pay to continue the advertisement are the puppy millers, brokers/ re-sellers & BYB's. Look @ all the advertisements on ebay classified, kijiji, craigslist, local papers...it's all filled w/BYB's, no reputable breeder in sight.

[impish]

Originally Posted by mimimomo

The sad reality is, the reputable breeders will not pay to stay on the vadzilla site. The ones who might actually pay to continue the advertisement are the puppy millers, brokers/ re-sellers & BYB's. Look @ all the advertisements on ebay classified, kijiji, craigslist, local papers...it's all filled w/BYB's, no reputable breeder in sight.

Yes - but they don't have feedback - Angieslist does however and it works really well. So does ebay (nonclassifeds) We actually purchase a annual subscription to angieslist just to get good service providers!

You have a very very very good point though mimimomo. Hopefully vladzilla will recognize that the reviews will be CRITICAL to real success. Or it will be just another terrible site that won't work. I think it could though. People are dying to tell about their terrible customer service and there's nobody to tell - particularly about pet horrors. We see it all the time in newbe posts.

Maybe I'm a dreamer - but if you get bad reviews - the people that get reviewed poorly aren't going to want to advertise there right? Just another thought.

[genesmasher]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

...I also hope this advice is posted on Vadzilla's website and they encourage buyers to check out kennel/breeding conditions. If your breeder doesn't want to meet with you, she isn't reputable.

http://www.vadzilla.com/articles/how-to-find-a-good-breeder-with-puppies-for-sale

Breeder Rating Instructions and Rules - Vadzilla

Originally Posted by impish

Nancy - every single new person that comes here and asks about breeders is asking for a "review" of some type! And we all give them. So of COURSE reviews are helpful. We just got lucky that they landed here. Why deprive the rest of the people who are going to buy a puppy one way or another access to reviews just because it isn't perfect?

People are going to be stupid people no matter what. Why not use the system to make it better??? What is the alternative?

You (and I don't mean you personally Nancy) say - "this is a bad site" but if you don't offer an alternative what do you think is going to happen with the general puppy buyer?

And I don't know if you've ever used YELP or Amazon but you can revise your review. Perhaps you can on this site. Maybe the owner will speak up? Perhaps this dialog will be food for thought and could actually be the start of helping fix the problem?
...

Thanks for this, impish. All we ask is for people go to the site and start leaving reviews for breeders they had experience with. Leave it to us to make sure that the system is being used properly. We haven't implemented "amend review" option yet, but it will be done in the future. Then the original reviewer will be able to come back to the site several months (or years) later and amend their original review with new information, without modifying the original review. I believe this is the same system currently used by Amazon.com, and it works very well.

Vadzilla.com is still being actively developed, based on the feedback we receive from forums like this and other sources. For example, by the end of this year we are hoping to install links to most national and local breeder clubs and associations on respective breed pages - so that users are able to cross check any breeder listed on our site.

This is the time to make CONSTRUCTIVE feedback which will benefit ethical breeding in the end, instead of closed-minded bashing.

[scrapindee]

Originally Posted by Verbena

I looked at the Biewer section. There is reputable breeders there but there is also puppy mills and back yard breeders. I wish the owner of the site would research the person before posting their website.

I agree.

[theporkieyorkie]

Originally Posted by mimimomo

The sad reality is, the reputable breeders will not pay to stay on the vadzilla site. The ones who might actually pay to continue the advertisement are the puppy millers, brokers/ re-sellers & BYB's. Look @ all the advertisements on ebay classified, kijiji, craigslist, local papers...it's all filled w/BYB's, no reputable breeder in sight.

Sad...but sooo true!! Most good breeders aren't producing/selling mass quantities of dogs to the point where they need to sell them like merchandise...and they definitely don't need to pay for advertisement. And while some people may write reviews and do research, there are lots more who won't...because they are too lazy...and because they want everything NOW.

Heck...look at how many people buy dogs at pet stores having no idea the deplorable conditions their puppy came from...and they have no idea the kind of evil they are supporting. It's going to be/already is the same way online!!

People will think that because their puppy came clean with a cute little bow in it's hair, it must have came from a good loving home.

As much as I think it would be great for the owners/admins of vadzilla to research the breeders before they let someone advertise, I am guessing it would take a lot of time and energy to do so and it would be virtually impossible to keep up with.

HOWEVER, I do think it would be nice if the admins would look into complaints written and consider banning those that are obviously bad breeders....BUT, I am guessing as long as someone is paying $$ to advertise, they probably aren't going to do squat because they want the money...and it doesn't really matter to them if it's dirty puppymill money or not

On the other hand...if someone was banned for being a bad breeder, they'd probably just come back on under another name anyways.

[genesmasher]

Thank you for a thoughtful post, theporkieyorkie.

The majority of points you are raising are valid, except one - we do care who advertises on our site. We are not interested in becoming yet another portal for puppy mills.

Banning an advertiser based on reviews is not a bad idea, but as you can imagine, it requires very careful planning and implementation on our part. First of all, we need to have a substantial number of reviews accumulated, and evaluate all types of information coming in. Obviously, we want to avoid a mechanized approach, where reputable breeders are punished as a result of a single defamatory review.

Vadzilla.com has only been online for three months and already, not only we are very aware of most negative issues associated with the industry, we are actually starting to implement solutions. Our site is evolving constantly, based on your suggestions.

We believe there is a value in Vadzilla.com for breeders, beyond just advertising. We would like our site to become THE primary destination for all serious, responsible breeders abiding by the ethical rules established by AKC, UKC, CFA and other governing agencies. We will continue to provide tools to educate and guide both pet lovers and breeders. For example, we have forum on our site as well, and we would love it to become a place where breeders can communicate between themselves, share ideas and guide their potential customers, IRRESPECTIVE OF THE BREED they are working with. There is no such place online yet - only separate club sites, with minimal, if any, communication.

We really appreciate help from both breeders and regular pet lovers suggesting additional features they would find useful. We will do our best to incorporate them into Vadzilla.com. In the end, we maybe delusional hoping to alter a typical lazy mentality of a person looking for a dog or cat, but will give it an honest try, by making the information user-friendly and easily available.

Originally Posted by theporkieyorkie

Sad...but sooo true!! Most good breeders aren't producing/selling mass quantities of dogs to the point where they need to sell them like merchandise...and they definitely don't need to pay for advertisement. And while some people may write reviews and do research, there are lots more who won't...because they are too lazy...and because they want everything NOW.

Heck...look at how many people buy dogs at pet stores having no idea the deplorable conditions their puppy came from...and they have no idea the kind of evil they are supporting. It's going to be/already is the same way online!!

People will think that because their puppy came clean with a cute little bow in it's hair, it must have came from a good loving home.

As much as I think it would be great for the owners/admins of vadzilla to research the breeders before they let someone advertise, I am guessing it would take a lot of time and energy to do so and it would be virtually impossible to keep up with.

HOWEVER, I do think it would be nice if the admins would look into complaints written and consider banning those that are obviously bad breeders....BUT, I am guessing as long as someone is paying $$ to advertise, they probably aren't going to do squat because they want the money...and it doesn't really matter to them if it's dirty puppymill money or not

On the other hand...if someone was banned for being a bad breeder, they'd probably just come back on under another name anyways.

[Yorkiemom1]

I am wondering about people that occasionally come on YT, and advertise to sell their puppies from YT. Does YT review/screen these posters before they are allowed to advertise their puppies? Unfortunately, just the mere fact that someone is on YT advertising puppies, in SOME people's minds, validates that person and automatically means they are "good breeders". There are members that will come on close to the advertisment, and question the infrequency of the poster's contributions to this site, doing nothing more than using this site as an advertisment vehicle, etc....which is a review, to be sure....but I do not think YT assumes the responsibility of screening that person.... Regardless, I strongly believe in individual accountability. BUYERS must assume responsibility for what they do! They are continually bombarded by breeders for them to go through, check out, and decide on their own, if this is a breeder they feel comfortable with. This is necessary for ANY site, including Vadzilla. Buyers can not be coddled and protected and have knowledgable people continously run interference for them....buyers have to educate THEMSELVES what makes a breeder reputable and ethical.....NOt any site breeders choose to advertise on. I have no problem with advertising on Vaszilla....I will give them a try and let you all know what kind of results I get. I screen my buyers, so I will see if the majority of people that hit this site are looking for quality babies from ethical breeders, or if this site draws people that would be just as happy buying a cheap puppy from a newspaper ad or a flea market.

[lynzy420]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

I am wondering about people that occasionally come on YT, and advertise to sell their puppies from YT. Does YT review/screen these posters before they are allowed to advertise their puppies? Unfortunately, just the mere fact that someone is on YT advertising puppies, in SOME people's minds, validates that person and automatically means they are "good breeders". There are members that will come on close to the advertisment, and question the infrequency of the poster's contributions to this site, doing nothing more than using this site as an advertisment vehicle, etc....which is a review, to be sure....but I do not think YT assumes the responsibility of screening that person.... Regardless, I strongly believe in individual accountability. BUYERS must assume responsibility for what they do! They are continually bombarded by breeders for them to go through, check out, and decide on their own, if this is a breeder they feel comfortable with. This is necessary for ANY site, including Vadzilla. Buyers can not be coddled and protected and have knowledgable people continously run interference for them....buyers have to educate THEMSELVES what makes a breeder reputable and ethical.....NOt any site breeders choose to advertise on. I have no problem with advertising on Vaszilla....I will give them a try and let you all know what kind of results I get. I screen my buyers, so I will see if the majority of people that hit this site are looking for quality babies from ethical breeders, or if this site draws people that would be just as happy buying a cheap puppy from a newspaper ad or a flea market.

Great post. SOME of My thought processes have changed since this thread began..and here are some of my random thoughts here....

The internet as a whole is the way to go...it is what it is...and very soon we are coming to a time that MOST people alive won't remember a life before the internet.

Also, I see threads here where folks are going on and on and on and on and on about a pup for sale on ebay....craigslist....etc....we flag, we email, we wait and wait and wait...it seems sometimes they are there for hours....people trying to call etc...etc...etc....wouldn't be great if we could get someone from ebay to come on here and answer our questions or explain to us why this keeps happening....????? We have Vad here we can reach him....

My thought is we have a guy (albeit somewhat cocky at times) here who is embarking on a website, whether we like it or not, it won't be perfect....(just like YT is not perfect after all we have some prominent BACK YARD BREEDERS POSTING here everyday...chatting etc....because they have a right to) the owner of Vadzilla is a member here, he is trying to accomplish something no one else has...to be a reputable site for animal adoption...sure he is looking to make money (maybe will donate some here and to YHR when he finally makes it????) but I don't care, I care about the pups...and when I look at his site and check out some of these people or review them etc....if I see something that I really don't like I know he is a member here and I can reach out to him...unlike ebay, craigslist etc...

I'd LOVE to see a site BETTER than Petfinder and ebay etc...hopefully it happens...hopefully the $$$ doesn't go to his head and he leaves his scruples at the bank!

just my random thoughts...

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by genesmasher

http://www.vadzilla.com/articles/how-to-find-a-good-breeder-with-puppies-for-sale

Breeder Rating Instructions and Rules - Vadzilla




Thanks for this, impish. All we ask is for people go to the site and start leaving reviews for breeders they had experience with. Leave it to us to make sure that the system is being used properly. We haven't implemented "amend review" option yet, but it will be done in the future. Then the original reviewer will be able to come back to the site several months (or years) later and amend their original review with new information, without modifying the original review. I believe this is the same system currently used by Amazon.com, and it works very well.

Vadzilla.com is still being actively developed, based on the feedback we receive from forums like this and other sources. For example, by the end of this year we are hoping to install links to most national and local breeder clubs and associations on respective breed pages - so that users are able to cross check any breeder listed on our site.

This is the time to make CONSTRUCTIVE feedback which will benefit ethical breeding in the end, instead of closed-minded bashing.

It is very important that people use the review to express first hand experience with any breeder they are reviewing, and not just going to the site and posting reviews based on hear say or on opinion....some people have a clear disdain for breeders using advertising at all, forming an opinion that they are automatically puppy mills, or byb's....this is so unrealistic, on so many levels. I think it should be a required detail that any review MUST include the date of the transaction the reviewer had with the breeder., as well as how the encounter with the breeder, closed.

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by mimimomo

The sad reality is, the reputable breeders will not pay to stay on the vadzilla site. The ones who might actually pay to continue the advertisement are the puppy millers, brokers/ re-sellers & BYB's. Look @ all the advertisements on ebay classified, kijiji, craigslist, local papers...it's all filled w/BYB's, no reputable breeder in sight.

I submit this is sooooooo incorrect. Puppy mills, byb's, brokers, resellers try to get away with as little overhead as possible...not many have an advertising budget and those that do, certainly do not want to be subjected to reviews for all to see. They fly low and slow and under the radar,,,,they are much more likely to come to sites like YT and post their litters for sale (we have all seen those "breeders" that you hear from once or twice every couple of years, JUST to list puppies, never contributing to any other posts with information, etc)....and oh by the way....breeders are being watched by local law enforcment, AKC, PETA, HSUSA, etc...to be certain they do not have an excess of breeding dogs, and that they are not producing over the limit of puppies....dishonest breeders are busting these closely watched parameters and therefore they want to remain as non descript and "invisable" as they possibly can. Reality is, THESE are the people that will drop off this ad site....not the breeders that have nothing to hide. I think we have a rare opportunity to actually work with people that are trying to do this correctly, and we have the opportunity to help them develop their site where it will actually benefit breeders as well as people looking for ethical, responsible breeders with integrity and accountability.