FYI - Dee's Lil' Yorkshire Terriers

[KYBLUE]

Originally Posted by blueskies

I have not been on here for quite awhile and just came across this thread. I know I may be frying myself in the oven posting this, but I am feeling particularly honest and like speaking my mind today, so I am going to post my feelings. This is a curious thread, because I have seen this breeder brag that she has sold many puppies on YorkieTalk, but yet no one has come to defend her. I have no beef with the breeder or the buyer, so this is merely an observation. I do, however, have an acquaintance who has had personal dealings with this breeder and was not happy. The dog that was purchased came to her in bad condition. I know this for a fact, this is not an exaggeration or idle gossip. I know many will request that I name this person and the dog that was purchased, but I will not because I do not feel right posting for someone else. Regardless, I felt I should mention that there are others with grievances. I wonder how many others have had not so good purchases from this breeder, on or off this forum? I noticed that other breeders who have sold puppies on YorkieTalk [with threads in this section] have many people to back up their good breeding practices. It was just odd to me that this breeder states in other posts how many of her puppies have been sold to YorkieTalk members, yet none have come to her rescue to dispute the statements made by the OP. I also went back and noticed that yes, in fact, there are some good reviews about this breeder within this section from over the past few years. However, I also noticed that all the threads were so curiously grouped together one after another, almost as if the buyers were asked to post by the breeder. Of course, that is merely an observation, and could be inaccurate. Just a thought. Now, on to the dispute in question. It does not make sense that the Buyer would block the address of the breeder. Something about that just seems........trivial? Especially from someone who was concerned about their dog and possibly working out a conclusion with the breeder. Something else noteworthy is that all of this is over the health concern of open fontanels in these dogs\' lines. While I feel this isn\'t the worst issue that a Yorkie line could contain, it is still worth mentioning and should be at the very least considered when choosing dogs for a breeding program. My concern would not be with a single tiny puppy who had a font issue, but with multiple dogs having it, I would certainly be suspicious and wary of future problems with more serious issues such as hydrocephalus. An open font is, in theory, a hole in the heat, is it not? That phrase just seems, I don\'t know.........scary. I also find it interesting that while the Breeder seems to note in this thread that an open font is not a serious concern, in a former post the Breeder expresses concern over this very same issue when someone else had the problem. This post was made back on 11-12-08 by Sugar\'s Mom: it is called an open fontanal and is a birth defect. usually, if it is the size of the tip of your little finger, it will gradually close up. if it is larger than that, it doesn\'t usually close and can lead to hydrocephalus which may result in death. You have to be very careful when caring for a puppy with this as any injury to the head can be fatal. if you find an open font in a puppy you have purchased, the breeder should be notified. Obviously it was a serious issue then, but it is not now. Interesting. My final note is this. I saw that it was mentioned that one of the puppies in question Gracie [Miss Thang] was sold at a reduced price due to her open fontanel that this breeder knew about from the beginning. According to her old threads, the puppy that she knew had an open font was originally at a hefty $2000 price tag and reduced to $1500 on page 4, just before it was closed and she was marked as sold to the YorkieTalk member. I also noticed that the member who purchased this puppy said nothing on this thread, despite having been on the forum in the last few days. I have to wonder if there is some kind of misunderstanding, possibly the breeder considers $1500 to be a reduced price? I don\'t. I find it admirable that the breeder returned the money for the one male, however, why the inconsistencies? Why did she not offer to return the money for the female mentioned on this thread? Oh, that\'s right, she did say it was because the OP bashed her after she blatantly lied to her about the issue in the lines. The breeder never disagreed or disputed that she in fact lied to the OP. So I suppose that part is true. She can make all the statements that she wants, but the fact remains: she lied to this buyer, who else will she lie to make a sell and keep her goose out of the fire? I have no ties to the OP or the breeder. I am not even an acquaintance of the OP, have never spoken to her. These are merely observations from an onlooker.

some very intresting points

[KYBLUE]

Originally Posted by rbelland

I wanted to say that Dee did offer to pay me back, but after having litters constantly she had no money then. I got tired of it and asked her to not contact me again.

That brings up another topic. A reputable breeder with a health guarentee would have held back money for the year (however long health guarentee is). I know some people have contracts that state they will only replace the puppy, but I would think if one had problems they would do the right thing. No matter what the contract states. Or maybe that is just me?

I saw the thread you are speaking of. I actually have it right in fron of me on paper.
I also have this POST - #12 #24
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/bre...-fontanel.html

we should all stand behind our breeding

[rbelland]

Not really sure what this means about ad's. But thought I would throw this out here. How to delete ad's. I am a bit confused.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sit...words-ads.html

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by rbelland

Not really sure what this means about ad's. But thought I would throw this out here. How to delete ad's. I am a bit confused.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sit...words-ads.html

Renee,

Don't know if you remember....but, at times we would have some words within our posts show up green. The post was speaking how to get rid of them.

[jackson25]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Renee,

Don't know if you remember....but, at times we would have some words within our posts show up green. The post was speaking how to get rid of them.

Thanks for clarify that Mary, I saw what Renee posted and wondered the same thing, thought maybe the thread was asking how to delete for sale ads or classifieds!

[rbelland]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Renee,

Don't know if you remember....but, at times we would have some words within our posts show up green. The post was speaking how to get rid of them.

Oh yeah, now I remember. It looked so odd, I though maybe she thought she could delete her ad's??

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by blueskies

I have not been on here for quite awhile and just came across this thread. I know I may be frying myself in the oven posting this, but I am feeling particularly honest and like speaking my mind today, so I am going to post my feelings. This is a curious thread, because I have seen this breeder brag that she has sold many puppies on YorkieTalk, but yet no one has come to defend her.

It was never my intention to brag and most of the people I have sold puppiess to have long since left Yt because of the drama.

I have no beef with the breeder or the buyer, so this is merely an observation. I do, however, have an acquaintance who has had personal dealings with this breeder and was not happy.[COLOR="Red"]
[/COLOR

I would like to know who this person but I understand if you cannot break a confidence. I have only ever shipped a handful of puppies. They are vet checked for a health cert two or three days before they leave me. Then when the buyer picks them up at airport, they call me and let me know how the puppy arrived. THEN, when they take it to their vet, they also let me know what the vet said. I have had a couple that went potty on themselves in the crate. I have shipped a very few in cargo. I have personally flown some to the buyer, I have met people at my airport or they hae come here to my home to get them.

exaggeration or idle gossip. I know many will request that I name this person and the dog that was purchased, but I will not because I do not feel right posting for someone else. Regardless, I felt I should mention that there are others with grievances. I wonder how many others have had not so good purchases from this breeder, on or off this forum? I noticed that other breeders who have sold puppies on YorkieTalk [with threads in this section] have many people to back up their good breeding practices. It was just odd to me that this breeder states in other posts how many of her puppies have been sold to YorkieTalk members, yet none have come to her rescue to dispute the statements made by the OP. I also went back and noticed that yes, in fact, there are some good reviews about this breeder within this section from over the past few years. However, I also noticed that all the threads were so curiously grouped together one after another, almost as if the buyers were asked to post by the breeder. Of course, that is merely an observation, and could be inaccurate. Just a thought. Now, on to the dispute in question. It does not make sense that the Buyer would block the address of the breeder. Something about that just seems........trivial? Especially from someone who was concerned about their dog and possibly working out a conclusion with the breeder. Something else noteworthy is that all of this is over the health concern of open fontanels in these dogs\' lines. While I feel this isn\'t the worst issue that a Yorkie line could contain, it is still worth mentioning and should be at the very least considered when choosing dogs for a breeding program. My concern would not be with a single tiny puppy who had a font issue, but with multiple dogs having it, I would certainly be suspicious and wary of future problems with more serious issues such as hydrocephalus. An open font is, in theory, a hole in the heat, is it not? That phrase just seems, I don\'t know.........scary. I also find it interesting that while the Breeder seems to note in this thread that an open font is not a serious concern, in a former post the Breeder expresses concern over this very same issue when someone else had the problem. This post was made back on 11-12-08 by Sugar\'s Mom: it is called an open fontanal and is a birth defect. usually, if it is the size of the tip of your little finger, it will gradually close up. if it is larger than that, it doesn\'t usually close and can lead to hydrocephalus which may result in death. You have to be very careful when caring for a puppy with this as any injury to the head can be fatal. if you find an open font in a puppy you have purchased, the breeder should be

Something I copied and pasted when I first started breeding.

notified. Obviously it was a serious issue then, but it is not now. Interesting. My final note is this. I saw that it was mentioned that one of the puppies in question Gracie [Miss Thang] was sold at a reduced price due to her open fontanel that this breeder knew about from the beginning. According to her old threads, the puppy that she knew had an open font was originally at a hefty $2000 price tag and

reduced to $1500

She did not sell for that much.

on page 4, just before it was closed and she was marked as sold to the YorkieTalk member. I also noticed that the member who purchased this puppy said nothing on this thread, despite having been on the forum in the last few days.

There is another username very similar. I contacted my buyer last night on facebook and she told me she has not been on YT in about two years because of the drama.

I have to wonder if there is some kind of misunderstanding, possibly the breeder considers $1500 to be a reduced price? I don\'t. I find it admirable that the breeder returned the money for the one male, however, why the inconsistencies? Why did she not offer to return the money for the female mentioned on this thread? Oh, that\'s right, she did say it was because the OP bashed her after she blatantly lied to her about the issue in the lines. The breeder never disagreed or disputed that she in fact lied to the OP. So I suppose that part is true. She can make all the statements that she wants, but the fact remains: she lied to this buyer, who else will she lie to make a sell and keep her goose out of the fire? I have no ties to the OP or the breeder. I am not even an acquaintance of the OP, have never spoken to her. These are merely observations from an onlooker.

Thank you for your observation. I will not be responding again.

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by rbelland

I wanted to say that Dee did offer to pay me back, but after having litters constantly she had no money then:rolleyes:.

Thank you for posting this. I could have made payments to you but you wanted your money in a hurry. I just couldn't do that I hate to put ,y financial situation on here. I did not have puppies constantly in 2009. In fact, I only had one litter of pups to sell besides jazzy. That I can remember. I bred a couple of dogs but those pups were not ready until this year. We went into Credit Counseling in December of 2008 in order to pay our debts and not have to file bankruptcy. That tied us up for four years. We are just coming up on two years in December. If you want to contact me, I will give you the name of our counselor and the terms but I will not put that info on here. I can have you added into that if you wish.

I got tired of it and asked her to not contact me again.

That brings up another topic.
(however long health guarentee is). I know some people have contracts that state they will only replace the puppy, but I would think if one had problems they would do the right thing. No matter what the contract states. Or maybe that is just me?

I saw the thread you are speaking of. I actually have it right in fron of me on paper. The post mentioned here was copied and pasted. The link you provided was written by me.

I also have this POST - #12 #24
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/bre...-fontanel.html

I accidently deleted what you had written about holding money back for your contract when I tried to highlight it. But you are right. Breeders should keep money back. Hindsight is twenty twenty and I need the money to buy groceries and etc. it has been a very rough year and a half for us. Not making excuses just stating the facts. It kills me to post such personal info but I felt it needed to be done.

I truly am done this time. I will not be back on this thread no matter how bad I am bashed.

[Disney]

Why breeding if you bankrupt? Genuine question not attack.

[rbelland]

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

I accidently deleted what you had written about holding money back for your contract when I tried to highlight it. But you are right. Breeders should keep money back. Hindsight is twenty twenty and I need the money to buy groceries and etc. it has been a very rough year and a half for us. Not making excuses just stating the facts. It kills me to post such personal info but I felt it needed to be done.

I truly am done this time. I will not be back on this thread no matter how bad I am bashed.

I am simply stating my experience with you. I am not bashing.

As far as the money is concerned, I had asked you if you could give me a good faith deposit back on Jazzy. You told me you did not even have that.

Kind of funny because when I purchased Jazzy you were so quick to get your deposit. It had only been a couple months. Actually, you sent a couple e-mails asking for it. I had no problem giving you the full price of Jazzy. IMO, I think you could have given me the same respect.

I know, I know your contract states you do not have to do anything. I get it, I really do. I read it in so many of your e-mails how could I forget.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by rbelland

I am simply stating my experience with you. I am not bashing.

As far as the money is concerned, I had asked you if you could give me a good faith deposit back on Jazzy. You told me you did not even have that.

Kind of funny because when I purchased Jazzy you were so quick to get your deposit. It had only been a couple months. Actually, you sent a couple e-mails asking for it. I had no problem giving you the full price of Jazzy. IMO, I think you could have given me the same respect.

I know, I know your contract states you do not have to do anything. I get it, I really do. I read it in so many of your e-mails how could I forget.

Renee',

Let me commend you on your courage in taking responsibilty in this situation. I understand your reasons for doing so was to help prevent others from not making the same mistake you did. Educate those in a hurry, the unsuspecting public; to research. Teach the responsibilities of good breeding practices and all that goes along with it. Ethics, honesty and most of all breeding the best of the best. Not doing so is only perpetuating the health issues that plague our chosen breed.

[BonBon]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Renee',

Let me commend you on your courage in taking responsibilty in this situation. I understand your reasons for doing so was to help prevent others from not making the same mistake you did. Educate those in a hurry, the unsuspecting public; to research. Teach the responsibilities of good breeding practices and all that goes along with it. Ethics, honesty and most of all breeding the best of the best. Not doing so is only perpetuating the health issues that plague our chosen breed.

I'm in full agreement with Mary, Renee.

The ethics and moral integrity you've shown as a new breeder are impressive. It's unfortunate that some breeders who've been around for decades don't have your strength of character. Not only did you recognize a health flaw in Jazzy's line that should be bred and refuse to breed her, you made sure she was placed in a loving home after she was spayed. Thank you for setting such a high example for other breeders to achieve.

Bonny

[BonBon]

Originally Posted by BonBon

I'm in full agreement with Mary, Renee.

The ethics and moral integrity you've shown as a new breeder are impressive. It's unfortunate that some breeders who've been around for decades don't have your strength of character. Not only did you recognize a health flaw in Jazzy's line that should be bred and refuse to breed her, you made sure she was placed in a loving home after she was spayed. Thank you for setting such a high example for other breeders to achieve.

Bonny

Sorry, meant to say 'should NOT be bred.'

[KYBLUE]

Blueskies

there has been something that was brought to my attention
do i know you?
i see you have over 100 post! i see you are not a breeder
yes i did sell a dog to washington to a show exibitor are you showing
someone is assuming that i put you up to this and you were the one i sold a dog to

and i would like to clear this small matter up

i did not even know you were a member until you posted on this thread

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by rbelland

I am simply stating my experience with you. I am not bashing.

As far as the money is concerned, I had asked you if you could give me a good faith deposit back on Jazzy. You told me you did not even have that.

Kind of funny because when I purchased Jazzy you were so quick to get your deposit. It had only been a couple months. Actually, you sent a couple e-mails asking for it. I had no problem giving you the full price of Jazzy. IMO, I think you could have given me the same respect.

I know, I know your contract states you do not have to do anything. I get it, I really do. I read it in so many of your e-mails how could I forget.

Renee, I have been talking to Genie on Facebook. She hadn't seen this thread yet. She has told me this morning that Ms. Thang DOES still have a pinpoint hole. She had told me in the beginning that she was fine (and she is) and I made the assumption that it had closed. She has never had a minutes trouble. I was wrong to make that assumption that it had closed.. I have pups on the ground now and I will be sending you the difference between a breeding dog and a pet dog as soon as I can. Pups are only five days old now. Genie also said that yes, she has been on here sometime back but only to buy harnesses from someone.

I truly am done now.