This is sad!

[CO_yorkie_momma]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I understand what you are saying, but I am amazed being an exhibitor/breeder that doesn't advertise, seeing that some of these breeder's fees are astronomically higher than breeder/exhibitor's fees.

I also think breeder/exhibitors should charge more for their extra work that they put into their dogs such as showing them. I know that alot of you just breed for the next show dog but even so, you are putting that extra effort into breeding high quality dogs and you should be compensated. In general people expect to pay more for quality and know in most cases you get what you pay for.

[tegamom1]

Originally Posted by CO_yorkie_momma

I also think breeder/exhibitors should charge more for their extra work that they put into their dogs such as showing them. I know that alot of you just breed for the next show dog but even so, you are putting that extra effort into breeding high quality dogs and you should be compensated. In general people expect to pay more for quality and know in most cases you get what you pay for.

Shouldn't everyone be breeding for quality? Show breeders do breed for their next show dog, but the ones they place in companion homes, and that is not to say they are not of excellent quality, are placed in the homes because these breeders are interested in finding good loving,forever homes. Anyone that shows will tell you they don't make money, that not why they do what they do. They actually do it for the love of the breed and the love of showing dogs, not for the $$$$$. Unfortunately, some show breeders have sold show dogs to people who promised they would uphold the standard the breeder has set, showed the dogs,championed them and then bred to less than quality, and less than reputable breeders. Therefore, you do see some top lines back in pedigrees that were never meant to be. Show people now really have to really get to know the people they sell show dogs to and it takes time. Then, only on a VERY strict contract or on a limited registration and once in a while, they still get screwed around.

[Jan L.]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I understand what you are saying, but I am amazed being an exhibitor/breeder that doesn't advertise, seeing that some of these breeder's fees are astronomically higher than breeder/exhibitor's fees.

Lord, me too. What are we doing wrong? I breed to better the Yorkies & in hope of getting a BBE to Westminster and here I almost (and have) give mine away. Sure could use some of those $$$$ for showing. LOL

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Jan L.

Lord, me too. What are we doing wrong? I breed to better the Yorkies & in hope of getting a BBE to Westminster and here I almost (and have) give mine away. Sure could use some of those $$$$ for showing. LOL

I for one am not showing and breeding to sell puppies. I groom on the side to support my habit/expensive hobby. Heck! I only breed 1 or 2 litters a year....how can you make money on that, after all the expenses are added up...I'm lucky if I break even....

[CO_yorkie_momma]

Originally Posted by tegamom1

Shouldn't everyone be breeding for quality? Show breeders do breed for their next show dog, but the ones they place in companion homes, and that is not to say they are not of excellent quality, are placed in the homes because these breeders are interested in finding good loving,forever homes. Anyone that shows will tell you they don't make money, that not why they do what they do. They actually do it for the love of the breed and the love of showing dogs, not for the $$$$$. Unfortunately, some show breeders have sold show dogs to people who promised they would uphold the standard the breeder has set, showed the dogs,championed them and then bred to less than quality, and less than reputable breeders. Therefore, you do see some top lines back in pedigrees that were never meant to be. Show people now really have to really get to know the people they sell show dogs to and it takes time. Then, only on a VERY strict contract or on a limited registration and once in a while, they still get screwed around.

I agree with you that everyone should be breeding for quality. I know there are alot of show breeders that have trusted people along the way and got burned. I have 2 dogs that are good examples of that and I know it. Does that mean any breeder who happens to get lucky enough to acquire a dog with a wonderful pedigree should not feel proud to own them because somewhere someone trusted someone they shouldnt have? Should they turn down an opportunity to purchase that dog because they havent paid their dues in the show ring and therefore dont deserve to own the dog or is the dog less valuable because of it? I dont think so. I am new to this area and I know that I have tons to learn and I am trying real hard, probably harder than most, to do my best. One day soon I will start to show and maybe when I do I will have a different perspective on things but right now I dont feel a breeder should feel inferior because they purchased a quality dog without paying their dues in the showring first or came by the dog under less than perfect circumstances. I am not necessarily directing these questions at you Tega Mom, I am just throwing them out there for everyones opinion.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by CO_yorkie_momma

I agree with you that everyone should be breeding for quality. I know there are alot of show breeders that have trusted people along the way and got burned. I have 2 dogs that are good examples of that and I know it. Does that mean any breeder who happens to get lucky enough to acquire a dog with a wonderful pedigree should not feel proud to own them because somewhere someone trusted someone they shouldnt have? Should they turn down an opportunity to purchase that dog because they havent paid their dues in the show ring and therefore dont deserve to own the dog or is the dog less valuable because of it? I dont think so. I am new to this area and I know that I have tons to learn and I am trying real hard, probably harder than most, to do my best. One day soon I will start to show and maybe when I do I will have a different perspective on things but right now I dont feel a breeder should feel inferior because they purchased a quality dog without paying their dues in the showring first or came by the dog under less than perfect circumstances. I am not necessarily directing these questions at you Tega Mom, I am just throwing them out there for everyones opinion.

I'll answer one question, the one about turning down a dog if they have the opportunity to purchase it through the back door. Mary Ann obtained CJ from me....This Time and Pastoral pedigree 10 generations of Champions on the Sire and Dam Side including Sire & Dam....she actually went to my breeder and spoke to her, making it was ok with her and to insure my breeder that her lines would remain protected. This is integrity

[CO_yorkie_momma]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I'll answer one question, the one about turning down a dog if they have the opportunity to purchase it through the back door. Mary Ann obtained CJ from me....This Time and Pastoral pedigree 10 generations of Champions on the Sire and Dam Side including Sire & Dam....she actually went to my breeder and spoke to her, making it was ok with her and to insure my breeder that her lines would remain protected. This is integrity

Yes that is integrity, no doubt about it. Let me ask you this, does that mean I have less integrity because I didnt go back several generations and ask permission of a breeder to buy a dog that the rightful owner of that dog was selling to me? A dog that may have been acquired through "the back door", as you call it but acquired legally none the less?" Is the dog not as valuable because it was acquired through the "back door"? Would it be more valuable if a show breeder owned it as opposed to someone who doesnt show and in a show breeders eyes "not worthy" of owning that dog? I see where you are coming from Mardelin, I truely do, but do you see what I am saying too?

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by CO_yorkie_momma

Yes that is integrity, no doubt about it. Let me ask you this, does that mean I have less integrity because I didnt go back several generations and ask permission of a breeder to buy a dog that the rightful owner of that dog was selling to me? A dog that may have been acquired through "the back door", as you call it but acquired legally none the less?" Is the dog not as valuable because it was acquired through the "back door"? Would it be more valuable if a show breeder owned it as opposed to someone who doesnt show and in a show breeders eyes "not worthy" of owning that dog? I see where you are coming from Mardelin, I truely do, but do you see what I am saying too?

The dog is no less valuable and yes it's legal. But, (and I'm not attempting to hurt your feelings or say insinuate anything about you as I don't know you and it would be unfair) what I am telling you in the show world of long standing reputable breeders these are some of the things that are looked at negatively, they don't like to see their lines obtained via the back door. It's not the question of value, it's their blood, sweat, tears and years of hard work. It happens, but that doesn't make it right or make the original breeders happy. So, those lines that you happened to obtain are now in your hands to safeguard.

I have a young lady that has asked me to mentor her and is willing to learn how to handle, groom, train a dog , before she even gets a show dog. Finish it and a couple more. She wants to learn the ins an outs of planning a breeding, attend breeding and genetic classes before she even gets near a whelping box. She understands that there is no other way to learn until she takes those preliminary steps.

Please don't get me wrong I have nothing against a hobby breeder, breeding as long as they do it responsibly. I don't believe showing is for everyone, but you're missing out on a lot of fun and satisfaction. And I don't mean just in the ring.

[CO_yorkie_momma]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

The dog is no less valuable and yes it's legal. But, (and I'm not attempting to hurt your feelings or say insinuate anything about you as I don't know you and it would be unfair) what I am telling you in the show world of long standing reputable breeders these are some of the things that are looked at negatively, they don't like to see their lines obtained via the back door. It's not the question of value, it's their blood, sweat, tears and years of hard work. It happens, but that doesn't make it right or make the original breeders happy. So, those lines that you happened to obtain are now in your hands to safeguard.

I have a young lady that has asked me to mentor her and is willing to learn how to handle, groom, train a dog , before she even gets a show dog. Finish it and a couple more. She wants to learn the ins an outs of planning a breeding, attend breeding and genetic classes before she even gets near a whelping box. She understands that there is no other way to learn until she takes those preliminary steps.

Please don't get me wrong I have nothing against a hobby breeder, breeding as long as they do it responsibly. I don't believe showing is for everyone, but you're missing out on a lot of fun and satisfaction. And I don't mean just in the ring.

I didnt take anything the wrong way and I understand the frustration those trusting breeders have to have been duped and to have all of their hard work go to someone less than honorable. The lines I have purchased will go no further than me and that is the promise I made to the people I bought the dogs from. I would never do anything to break that trust. I know I am missing out by not showing and if someone came and said Barb, lets go take Kiley or whoever and I will show you how to train her so you can put her in the ring and see what she can do, I would jump on it in a second. I am not one of those people to just go do something by myself without any help. I have inquired about classes to learn around here but they are in the day and I work full time. I would love to show dogs and I will one day. I dream about it all the time. I wish I had someone here to help me get started, I would be overjoyed and it is something that I truely believe I would be good at because I have a very deep desire to learn and be the best I can be. One of these days not too far off I will be on here bragging about my first point or maybe even my first champion .

Sorry for going so far off topic but I really like a good conversation about these types of things. Thanks for everyones input. I appreciate it.

[Mardelin]

I feel this was a great learning thread. Lots to learn and if we stop learning we might as well just roll over and die.

[CO_yorkie_momma]

It is a great thread and I like having conversations where people can give their opinions without the fear of someone getting mad and offended.

People used to ask me all of the time when I was younger, what do you want to be when you grow up? I never had an answer. They would ask, well what are you passionate about? Again no answer. I am 47years old and never thought I would ever feel passionate about anything in my life until I got my yorkies. That passion gives me something to look forward to each day and I learn something new every day here on YT. The only way to learn is to listen to what people who have more experience say and I do listen even if I have to add my opinions once in a while too.