Color Question

[Breny]

Just letting everyone know I'm still looking for my female

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

The standard is written dark steel blue.....it's up for interpretation....it's how the judge sees it. There are so many variables that happen in the ring....you may have a correct color pattenered yorkie in the ring, but structerly incorrect....the black colored may have everything else about them that is correct......get it. Judges, judge by the qualities of the dog, breeders look at faults......

If the off standard black coated dog, who is outstanding conformationally, can win in the ring, then theoretically can't a conformationally correct Parti, Chocolate or golden colored Yorkies enter the show ring and win as well?

I'm not sure that I understand why it's ok for one off standard color dog to show and win but it's not ok for the other off standard colors to show (or to just be accepted)??? Is it because the off colored black/tan or black/gold dogs are more common and accepted by breeders/judges?

Just trying to understand.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

If the off standard black coated dog, who is outstanding conformationally, can win in the ring, then theoretically can't a conformationally correct Parti, Chocolate or golden colored Yorkies enter the show ring and win as well?

I'm not sure that I understand why it's ok for one off standard color dog to show and win but it's not ok for the other off standard colors to show (or to just be accepted)??? Is it because the off colored black/tan or black/gold dogs are more common and accepted by breeders/judges?

Just trying to understand.

Those of us that show and breed for standard don't understand either.

However, as we speak the standard is being rewritten now to add a disqualification that will disqualify anything that does not fit the standard. The very dark blue, is sometimes mistakenly viewed as black, and visa versa. The parti, Chocolate and Golden very obviously do not fit the standard.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Those of us that show and breed for standard don't understand either.

However, as we speak the standard is being rewritten now to add a disqualification that will disqualify anything that does not fit the standard. The very dark blue, is sometimes mistakenly viewed as black, and visa versa. The parti, Chocolate and Golden very obviously do not fit the standard.

What will the newly written "disqualification," disqualify? Will it disqualify all off standard color and/or conformation dogs from Showing? Or will it disqualify or disallow dogs who do not meet the YTCA standards, from being eligible for AKC registration?

[doortego]

I wish that more breeders would breed within the standard. It is unfair to go to buy a Yorkie pup and then wonder what size or color it will turn out to be. Everyone gets so up in arms about the "teacup" Yorkies which are within the YTCA standard and ignores those that keep breeding oversize Yorkies. Most people probably wouldn't ask for a "teacup" if they could be sure that the Yorkie pup advertised would stay within standard.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

What will the newly written "disqualification," disqualify? Will it disqualify all off standard color and/or conformation dogs from Showing? Or will it disqualify or disallow dogs who do not meet the YTCA standards, from being eligible for AKC registration?

From Conformation. The ability to register them in AKC remains as it stands today.

[AuntBee]

Well, the YTCA has definitely changed things so that parti-colors, chocolates, etc., are faulted - but as far as the "standard" Yorkie colors, this is what they say:

An Important Note About Color in Yorkshire Terriers

The most distinctive characteristic of an adult Yorkshire Terrier is its long blue and tan silk coat. A puppy is born black and tan, but the only recognized colors for adults when registering with AKC are blue and gold, blue and tan, black and gold, or black and tan.

The AKC Breed Standard and YTCA Code of Ethics do not recognize any other color dogs than noted above. This includes all gold, born blue, liver (also known as red or chocolate), and parti-colors. One of the reasons for avoiding breeding "off-colored" Yorkies is because it could be a genetic defect that may affect the dog's health. Some health problems can include, but aren't limited to, severe skin problems, allergies, total hair loss and in some cases long-term illness and/or death.

A responsible breeder will not intentionally breed for undesirable traits. On very rare occasions, a breeder will have a puppy born with a color anomaly.
That puppy should undergo careful health screenings before being placed in a spay/neuter (non-breeding) home. A breeder should certainly never promote these deviations as being desirable or rare.

If I'm not mistaken, these are the only 4 choices listed on the Yorkie AKC puppy registration papers, aren't they?

Because the AKC recognizes these 4 colors in Yorkies - blue & tan, black & tan, blue & gold, and black & gold - these colors are not faulted in show dogs. And this is regardless of what the "standard" says. AKC "standards" are usually written by the parent club, but the AKC will modify them as they deem fit.

[lisatodd]

i just saw this post. imo i don't like the coloring. too much silver. i have studded a female like this but my boy has the perfect tan/blue which will hopefully make up for the flaw. i would never own one to breed.
again, this is just my opinion

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by AuntBee

Well, the YTCA has definitely changed things so that parti-colors, chocolates, etc., are faulted...

If I'm not mistaken, these are the only 4 choices listed on the Yorkie AKC puppy registration papers, aren't they?

Because the AKC recognizes these 4 colors in Yorkies - blue & tan, black & tan, blue & gold, and black & gold - these colors are not faulted in show dogs. And this is regardless of what the "standard" says. AKC "standards" are usually written by the parent club, but the AKC will modify them as they deem fit.

Your last paragraph states: "Because the AKC recognizes these 4 colors in Yorkies - blue & tan, black & tan, blue & gold, and black & gold - these colors are not faulted in show dogs. And this is regardless of what the "standard" says." If this is accurate, than many of the off colored Yorkies may some day, be able to show?

The way YTCA stands now, the ONLY accepted color is Blue and Tan.
That's the standard color and any other color is considered "off color". If the "off colored black and tan, black and gold and blue and gold dogs are still allowed to enter the show ring and win their champion status (because AKC recognizes them), why can't a parti or chocolate be able to show as well?

AKC recognizes the 4 colors that you mentioned but they also recognize and acknowledge Parti color, you just have to list it in the markings section and send AKC color photos of your dog. My yorkie is AKC registered as a Black and Tan Parti (but he's turning blue, so I guess I'll have to do a color change).

So who DOES dictate the rules for showing, AKC or YTCA? If it is YTCA, than No color but Blue and Tan should be showing according to the rules? Right?

[fannie]

Originally Posted by doortego

I wish that more breeders would breed within the standard. It is unfair to go to buy a Yorkie pup and then wonder what size or color it will turn out to be. Everyone gets so up in arms about the "teacup" Yorkies which are within the YTCA standard and ignores those that keep breeding oversize Yorkies. Most people probably wouldn't ask for a "teacup" if they could be sure that the Yorkie pup advertised would stay within standard.

The standard states Must not exceed 7 pounds. However, I have a VERY hard time selling a puppy that will be 6 to 7 lbs. So no, I don't agree that most people wouldn't ask for a "teacup" if they could be sure that the pup advertised would stay within the standard. Those that want small dogs want small dogs period.

[AuntBee]

I would have replied sooner, but I have not been able to get YorkieTalk to come up for the last 2 days.

The way I read the YTCA disqualification ballot results, they specifically are trying to get ALL other colors "disqualified".

Disqualification Ballot Results:

March 2, 2007: The addition of the Disqualification for parti colors and colors other than specified in the AKC Standard for the Yorkshire Terrier has passed by a margin of 87%. The Standard Revision ballot results will be forwarded to the AKC Board of Directors.

The Results of the Balloting for the addition of a Disqualification in the Standard are as follows:

There were 522 Ballots sent to the membership.
There were 325 Members in good standing who exercised their voting rights and returned their ballots within the time limit. A favorable vote of 2/3 of the members voting shall be required to effect the addition of a disqualification to the standard.

275 voted in Favor.
39 Voted not in Favor.
11 votes ineligible.

Ballot Question No1.
Disqualification:
Any solid color or combination of colors other than blue tan as described above.
Any white markings other than a small white spot on the forechest that does not exceed 1 inch at its longest dimension.

Official Ballot: A motion to add a disqualification for parti-colored and colors other than specified in our standard was made at our Annual membership meeting on Wednesday, 8/23/2006. It passed unanimously. A motion not to open the standard other than to add the disqualification followed. It also passed unanimously.

The way I understand it, many AKC standards are "written" by the parent clubs like YTCA - BUT then the AKC is the one who makes the final decision as to whether they accept it or not. This particular one is still being reviewed by the AKC, and I *think* they have 5 months or so to review before they make their decision. So, in order to have any say over it, Yorkies who own other colors need to make sure that the AKC is aware of how they feel about it before the AKC makes their decision.

So who DOES dictate the rules for showing, AKC or YTCA? If it is YTCA, than No color but Blue and Tan should be showing according to the rules? Right?

As far as shows go, it depends on who sponsors the show. Currently, shows that are sponsored or put on by the AKC go by AKC rules & regulations - and they don't consider the other colors as grounds for disqualification from show - which is what the YTCA is trying to get them to do - disqualify any other color Yorkie - other than the blue tan - from being able to compete in shows at all. Disqualification is different also from "fault". Some faults are disqualifying, and some are not. Currently, a color "fault" is not a disqualification. Club-sponsored shows may not allow other color Yorkies to compete - but I don't know.

Your last paragraph states: "Because the AKC recognizes these 4 colors in Yorkies - blue & tan, black & tan, blue & gold, and black & gold - these colors are not faulted in show dogs. And this is regardless of what the "standard" says." If this is accurate, than many of the off colored Yorkies may some day, be able to show?

Historically, if the AKC is satisfied that there are enough people interested in a new breed (for example), they will start the breed in their FSS program, in preparation for adding that breed to the recognized list of AKC breeds. Same goes with colors.. If the AKC finds that there are enough folks who are interested in seeing other colors in Yorkies - they will go with what the people are interested in - NOT by what the parent club wants, wishes, or says. These clubs are, after all, "technically" supposed to be under the umbrella of the AKC.

For example, it used to be that black poms were not considered "acceptable" for show either. Although, black was not technically a fault or a disqualification, it just wasn't an "acceptable" color (because of the national parent club). Now, blacks are shown quite commonly because of the efforts of black pom owners..

The parent clubs don't pay the paychecks at the AKC. Dog owners do. The AKC is the oldest and most widely recognized purebreed dog registration in this country - but it is folks who register their dogs, litters, etc., that make it possible for them to stay in business. Breeders who encourage new puppy buyers to register each puppy are gold in the eyes of the AKC.

[CC's]

The AKC doesn't dictate the standard for shows. The Parent club that the AKC recognizes does. YTCA makes the standard and if they vote for a change by the majority of members the AKC will follow suit.
Maybe not if they have an unreasonable request but this one is just cementing in the standard by adding a disqualifying fault.

A dog any color other than "Blue and Tan" will be excused from the ring. They will still be registered by AKC but judges will disqualify them at shows. Right now there are no disqualifying faults listed for the YT so I see no reason the AKC would even begin to fight this change. They could have added other things as well, such as drop ears, over weight limit, over or under bite and it still isn't really changing the standard.

The real problem I see is if the "blue" or "tan" is to light or a bit dark a judge may excuse a dog that shouldn't be.
Because its all in the eye of the judge.

[Breny]

This is a post way back from 01/07 whichs has come back up. Thanks for all the input but I decided not to go with that coloring although I find Roxy extremely beautiful !!! Thanks for all's inputs.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by CC's

The AKC doesn't dictate the standard for shows. The Parent club that the AKC recognizes does. YTCA makes the standard and if they vote for a change by the majority of members the AKC will follow suit.
Maybe not if they have an unreasonable request but this one is just cementing in the standard by adding a disqualifying fault.

A dog any color other than "Blue and Tan" will be excused from the ring. They will still be registered by AKC but judges will disqualify them at shows. Right now there are no disqualifying faults listed for the YT so I see no reason the AKC would even begin to fight this change. They could have added other things as well, such as drop ears, over weight limit, over or under bite and it still isn't really changing the standard.

The real problem I see is if the "blue" or "tan" is to light or a bit dark a judge may excuse a dog that shouldn't be.
Because its all in the eye of the judge.

You are so right, the Parent Club (I am a YTCA member) does the write the standard. However, when making changes to it, it is done in conjunction with AKC....a YTCA committee with the assisstance of an AKC rep. will collectively go through the changes and/or additions. Once the proper acceptance of the wording, it is put forth to the YTCA membership for the required 2/3 majority voting. If it isn't accepted, then it's back to the drawing board. In this case it was passed on the 1st vote. So, before it ever goes to vote, AKC has already sanctioned the changes and all is required is for AKC to reconvine and put it into place. Once completely accepted the standard cannot be reopened for or changes for 5 years.

I hope the rewritting will do what is set out to accomplish...

[JiggityJig]

Originally Posted by Breny

This is a post way back from 01/07 whichs has come back up. Thanks for all the input but I decided not to go with that coloring although I find Roxy extremely beautiful !!! Thanks for all's inputs.

I think she's beautiful too! Look at that sweet face! She looks like my Kiki!