BAD Breeder NOT A Reputable breeder WARNING

[CO_yorkie_momma]

Yes, Kiley was born 6/30 also so they are sisters. She looks alot like Kiley also. What a small world.

Barb

I got the male she was selling from Moha also. He has lots of Durrer in him. He is still pretty gray but changes everyday and I hope he turns a little more gold instead.

[Ladyhawk]

What a hoot, they're littermates! I just had a judge go over Cricket and she was impressed. How big is Kiley? Cricket grows in little spurts and gets told to grow everyday. She weighs in a little under 3.5 lbs. now. Mary Lou says that her mother was a late bloomer so I'm hoping Cricket will get big enough to breed. I have time though since I plan to show her first. Does Kiley have 20 tons of hair as well? She sure is a doll! We should keep comparing notes on these 2 sisters.

[Ladyhawk]

I got the male she was selling from Moha also. He has lots of Durrer in him. He is still pretty gray but changes everyday and I hope he turns a little more gold instead.[/QUOTE]
Moha is pretty dark so hopefully he'll end up a deep rich color. I think Cricket will be on the lighter side like her father. She has alot of sooty color in her paws as well but I'm sure it will clear. Does Kiley give things a little growl when she gets frustrated? Cricket does, it's just adorable!

[CO_yorkie_momma]

Originally Posted by vainchick5

But I think as long as a breeders practices are ethical, people have no reason to complain. People work really hard for that thousand, two thousand or three thousand dollars they pay, so they should get all of their questions answered, and then some. People only start to become difficult when they feel as though they've been duped or they are getting the short end of the stick.

Vainchick,
I agree with you 100% on that. I have just started breeding and I hope and pray that all of my dogs turn out with great temprements and are perfectly healthy and every one of my customers are tickled pink with them. I would not ever knowingly sell one that wasnt healthy or was viscious but what if the dog was fine when it left your house and when it got to the new home it didnt like the other dogs or the other dogs didnt like it. Is that your fault? Are you breeding viscious dogs? Are you abusing them? I am not saying this is what happened to PPP at all. This is just a general question I have and I would really like to hear from other breeders on their opinion about it. Is every breeder obligated to replace or take back every dog that a customer is not happy with. One thing I dont always agree on is when a "trainer" says the dogs was obviously abused and everyone just takes their word and agrees it must be so since the trainer said it was. The trainer doesnt have a clue what happened with that puppy before she started training it and each dog is different and reacts differently to situations. She may think the way a dog reacts could possibly be due to this or that, but she doesn't know it for a fact. I know a breeder that has to keep her stud away from the other studs because he fights with some of them. He is not viscious with all the other dogs but doesnt like some of the other males. Does that mean he is abused or viscious or caged all of the time. No, it doesnt and no he isnt. He is spoiled rotten and lives like a king with the best of everything. Ive seen it posted several times, this puppy cowers down when you try to pet it or this puppy snaps at the other puppies and the obvious consensus is it must have been abused. Maybe there are times when it has been, but it is not always the case. PPP, I am sorry your puppy is mean and had tumors and was not what you hoped it would be or what you paid for, I truely am. I am not defending anyone because I dont know Jen well enough to say anymore than the pups I got were great and I love them so much. I am sorry your experience was not the same as mine and I know you worked hard for the money you spent. $3000.00 is a ton of money to spend on a dog. We spent that on Louie and I would have been fit to be tied if there was something wrong with him when I got him you can be sure, so I do feel your pain and sympathize with you.

Barb

[CO_yorkie_momma]

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk

I got the male she was selling from Moha also. He has lots of Durrer in him. He is still pretty gray but changes everyday and I hope he turns a little more gold instead.

Moha is pretty dark so hopefully he'll end up a deep rich color. I think Cricket will be on the lighter side like her father. She has alot of sooty color in her paws as well but I'm sure it will clear. Does Kiley give things a little growl when she gets frustrated? Cricket does, it's just adorable![/QUOTE]


Yes Moha is very gold so I hope Trace follows suit. Mary Lou said Moha was late to turn too so I think that is how Trace will be. Kiley doesnt make hardly any noise. She is pretty quiet but onery as heck. LOL I cant wait to see what she looks like as an adult. I think she is just adorable and so is yours. They both have very cute faces. She is just barely over 4 lbs so I hope she gains a little weight still.

Barb

[CO_yorkie_momma]

Originally Posted by prettypuppypink

If Mary Lou is the breeder and I never spoke to her but to Jen. Does that make Jen a broker?

I think if your daughter lives in the house with you, does the website, and shows the dogs and you speak to her or email her that doesnt make her a broker. It makes her a daughther.

[lwolfe]

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk

What a hoot, they're littermates! I just had a judge go over Cricket and she was impressed. How big is Kiley? Cricket grows in little spurts and gets told to grow everyday. She weighs in a little under 3.5 lbs. now. Mary Lou says that her mother was a late bloomer so I'm hoping Cricket will get big enough to breed. I have time though since I plan to show her first. Does Kiley have 20 tons of hair as well? She sure is a doll! We should keep comparing notes on these 2 sisters.

Tami I enjoyed meeting you, your daughter and your lovely yorkies. Conner sure doesn't have a temperament problem. I could never drop the lead and expect my dogs to stay at my feet. My dogs would be across the building in a flash disrupting the show!

I hope to see you again soon. I am going to check the dates for the Manasass show. I may try to come.

[luvdorkyyorkies]

THis in no way is directed to anyones individual posts or experiences at all.
I think there are circumstances where breeders are blamed for things they might not be responsible for.
Such as temperament. If a puppy leaves at 3 months to a new home and a breeder is contacted at 9 or 10 months by a purchaser and they say the puppy is mean, shy, anxiety filled, difficult to train is it the fault of the breeders? Once they leave, how is one really to know for certain what conditioning they recieved the several months at their new home? SInce they have spent more months at their new home then their birth home, they would have developed alot from there.
Or health conditions. If parents do not have conditions such as luxating patella or legg perthes, but puppy develops it. Is it without a doubt the breeders fault? What if a puppy was seen at Vet ER on Christmas day for an injury and two weeks later they were diagnosed with legg perthes or luxating patella. Is the breeder responsible for bad breeding? What if the vet told them it is absolutely genetic and its the breeders fault. Would this be a true statement? What if a puppy has tracheal collapse, have they been walked with a collar, is it the breeders fault?
I think the majority of breeders who breed for a long period of time, even doing the best they know, will have puppies leave hopefully very rarely that are not 100% in sometime in their life. There are so many problems that can happen, so many health conditions, maybe people are unhappy of their yorkies look, or size. There are so many thing people can decide to be shorted about so its bound to happen. ANd sometimes they are shorted and not treated right. ANd health guarantees are not honored and breeders are not honest. That is always a good recipe for a bad circumstance.
I guess its a matter of two sides to a story, theory and real truth, what truly is the fault of the breeder and what is the fault of the purchaser. SOmetimes really hard to figure out, sometimes clear as a blue sky.
I know the more I spent for a yorkie the better a guarantee I would want. $3000 is alot of money to spend, alot of money to me, I would be looking darn near for perfection there!
Anyway Im rambling, and its just some things I have thought about.

Breeding can get very complicated.

[CO_yorkie_momma]

Originally Posted by luvdorkyyorkies

THis in no way is directed to anyones individual posts or experiences at all.
I think there are circumstances where breeders are blamed for things they might not be responsible for.
Such as temperament. If a puppy leaves at 3 months to a new home and a breeder is contacted at 9 or 10 months by a purchaser and they say the puppy is mean, shy, anxiety filled, difficult to train is it the fault of the breeders? Once they leave, how is one really to know for certain what conditioning they recieved the several months at their new home? SInce they have spent more months at their new home then their birth home, they would have developed alot from there.
Or health conditions. If parents do not have conditions such as luxating patella or legg perthes, but puppy develops it. Is it without a doubt the breeders fault? What if a puppy was seen at Vet ER on Christmas day for an injury and two weeks later they were diagnosed with legg perthes or luxating patella. Is the breeder responsible for bad breeding? What if the vet told them it is absolutely genetic and its the breeders fault. Would this be a true statement? What if a puppy has tracheal collapse, have they been walked with a collar, is it the breeders fault?
I think the majority of breeders who breed for a long period of time, even doing the best they know, will have puppies leave hopefully very rarely that are not 100% in sometime in their life. There are so many problems that can happen, so many health conditions, maybe people are unhappy of their yorkies look, or size. There are so many thing people can decide to be shorted about so its bound to happen. ANd sometimes they are shorted and not treated right. ANd health guarantees are not honored and breeders are not honest. That is always a good recipe for a bad circumstance.
I guess its a matter of two sides to a story, theory and real truth, what truly is the fault of the breeder and what is the fault of the purchaser. SOmetimes really hard to figure out, sometimes clear as a blue sky.
I know the more I spent for a yorkie the better a guarantee I would want. $3000 is alot of money to spend, alot of money to me, I would be looking darn near for perfection there!
Anyway Im rambling, and its just some things I have thought about.

Breeding can get very complicated.

[prettypuppypink]

It's not the fault of the buyer if a puppy arrives at 7 months with two tumours on his chin and a bad temperment towards other dogs. The buyer informed the breeder that she owned two other dogs. I never posted anything about the looks of the dog.He's a pet, looks aren't a issue. Yes, I was ripped off but it isn't about looks or money that upsets me. At 7 months when this pup arrived I had nothing to do with his temperment or tumours, nor awful condition he was in. Yes, I was conned by the breeder but she never sent a health guarentee or contract as promised. Then again she lied about everything. I don't understand why all of you think that this breeder is faultless.
I have been working with him since he arrived here. I still have to separate him from my MiKi because he almost killed him twice. The Chin is larger and can hold his own with Mr. Vicious Yorkie. This isn't what anyone who's up front with a breeder about home and other pets expects. He brought grief to our home, no joy. Where does it come off that a deceived buyer is more responsible then a so called paragon of a breeder and takes responsibilty for the nasty Yorkie she got stuck with. He is in better condition now then when he arrived. Praise her to the hilt but I will tell the facts until my last breathe. Why should another buyer be her victim. You are all breeders and I understand the loyalty among you, especially those that own her dogs. I wouldn't buy a dog that had her lines or Fonda's in them.

[CO_yorkie_momma]

Prettypuppypink,
I think if you go back and reread the posts you will see that no one is defending anyone here. I am sure the reason you cant clearly see what people are saying is the personal feelings you are dealing with reagards to your issue. I dont quite understand if the dog is so viscious, why you dont place him in a home with no other pets unless he is viscious to people too. I am sure he would be alot happier and so would you. I am sure being locked away in a room with nothing but a "view" isnt helping socialize him with other dogs either. No, a dog arriving with tumors is not your fault, no a dog arrivng with a bad temprement is not your fault. I dont see where anyone said it was. I dont know how big the tumors were and would a vet have been able to notice them on a normal physical? I know my vet doesnt check over every square inch of my dogs when I bring them in so I dont know. You are right, if the dog arrived mean with tumors as you say then it should have taken it back and you money refunded 100%. No one is disagreeing with that here.

Barb

[luvdorkyyorkies]

HI Prettypuppypink,

In no way was what I posted directed to your situation at all, it wasnt directed at anyone's post. No sly attempt to imply anything either toward anyone, I promise. SO if you misinterpreted what I said, I apolize, for that. I would have no intent of adding salt to upset you further.
It was a generalization.
I was thinking aloud and writing really more toward when is the breeder responsible and where are they not. I certainly feel if someone intentionally lies then they become responsible for that.

[prettypuppypink]

No apoligies necessary. I didn't take it personally. It was kind of you to post this.

[Ladyhawk]

There is no doubt that there are dogs that should be placed in homes where there are no other pets. Since the breeder was informed that there was other pets in the house she had the responsiblilty to inform the buyer that the dog was not friendly to other dogs. The internet has brought alot of good things into our world (like YT) but it has also made us vulnerable. I think we will see more situations such as Jessicas as more dogs are purchased on line. I bought a dog that was misrepresented online once. Without being able to see the dog or the kennel and the parents in person the consumer is relying alot of imformation provided by the seller. That not only puts a burden on the consumer to be educated enough to ask the proper questions but puts more responsibility on the seller to disclose facts that would have been evident if the purchase had taken place in person. I don't know if Jen purposely set out to dupe anyone, I haven't heard her side of the story, or whether she just didn't think to disclose all that was necessary. I would think that we'll see more instances of these problems the more that dogs are sold over the internet.

[prettypuppypink]

Originally Posted by CO_yorkie_momma

Prettypuppypink,
I think if you go back and reread the posts you will see that no one is defending anyone here. I am sure the reason you cant clearly see what people are saying is the personal feelings you are dealing with reagards to your issue. I dont quite understand if the dog is so viscious, why you dont place him in a home with no other pets unless he is viscious to people too. I am sure he would be alot happier and so would you. I am sure being locked away in a room with nothing but a "view" isnt helping socialize him with other dogs either. No, a dog arriving with tumors is not your fault, no a dog arrivng with a bad temprement is not your fault. I dont see where anyone said it was. I dont know how big the tumors were and would a vet have been able to notice them on a normal physical? I know my vet doesnt check over every square inch of my dogs when I bring them in so I dont know. You are right, if the dog arrived mean with tumors as you say then it should have taken it back and you money refunded 100%. No one is disagreeing with that here.

Barb

He's not locked in a room with a view, I keep him there for a couple of
hours in a playpen. It has no doors and one open wall to another area. There's a greenhouse attached, he watches the wild life in the yard (2 acres). My house is huge since my husband is a real estate developer. I rotate the dogs so he gets the same attention in several parts of the house, none have total freedom of the whole house. There's a gallery on the 3rd floor that they could fall through, plus floating stairs. He sleeps in my bedroom in an x-pen at night and plays in my bed. I don't mistreat my dogs like some breeders do. I've owned dogs for 46 years. Actually he's getting more attention then my Mi-Ki (so sweet), since we are working with 'vicious one' so we can get past some of his issues. I hope in time I can rehome him with someone who works for my husband and pay all his medical bills, food,etc. It seems he was abused so it isn't easy to accomplish much quickly. He will hide under his bed if the trainer uses a shaker can. He's behavoir indicates he was abused by someone. I have no clue who but he arrived this way. When I asked Jen, she said it was her fault for playing with him this way. This isn't playing. He hides because he's afraid. It's also a possibility he was sent back to Jen since he arrived with a bling collar. I doubt Jen would spend a dime on anything for him since he arrived with huge ticks, crummy coat condition. She could have removed the ticks herself. I saw the tumours under his chin before he went to the vet, didn't have to look for them. He has no hair there.
My issue is I was upfront with Jen and she lied about this dog to me. She has no ethics or morals, not a professional just a dishonest breeder to sell a dog like this to anyone without first, caring for his health and second, working on his issues. You do know she teaches puppy classes and agility so she claims. She didn't stand behind her dog, only wanted to get rid of him. You are correct, he should have been placed in a home with no other dogs but why would anyone want him unless he was free. When you pay for a puppy from a reputable breeder (not Jen), you expect many years of happiness from a dog with a good temperment not a puppymill quality mess.