"Again, I ask you, what would I be proving? My dedication? I think actions and what is produced speaks alot more highly that stepping in to compete to prove you have guts."

Stepping into or near a ring proves to potential buyers (even pet homes show up at shows! Many of them are in fact!) and those within the Yorkie community that you can practise what you preach. And more importantly that you ever striving to benefit yourself and your kennel by gaining the latest knowledge on dogs from different pedigrees (you've put your hands on a dog that came from " " and " ", something worth following &c.), knowledge that breeders really must have to be ethical ones themselves. Not just for the show, but for pet homes as well. Because both pets and show QUALITY Yorkies should be the same in the sense that they fit the standard and have no major faults. Once in awhile a recessive gene will creep up (nature of the beast) and you should be able to identify and correct so that it doesn't happen again. So showing would prove to yourself, if no one else that you really do have and can produce Yorkies that fit the standard. EVEN if you brought your dog ring side (even if it wasn't entered, and yes I know that's a no no, but don't tell me you haven't done it once or twice! lol) and ask a few people (handlers or breeder/owners) who just got out of the ring for their opinion. Careful, they'll most likely be honest!

i was done
 

well i was done replying to this thread but i will again tell you that my yorkies are of good quality with out being in a ring and that is where I am going to stand now I will shut my mouth and leave you to your dispute. And just because I dont show dont mean anyone has the right to judge me or my dogs thank you and have a nice day

Linda
 

Linda, I did not mean my remark to be unkind to you. A show dog is so much more then a "pretty face"...pretty is not what wins..a total package wins.. it is a healthy, well structured, outgoing, friendly dog, bred to the standard that should become a champion.
Anyone can hang a gorgeous coat of hair on a poor frame..and IMO that is what a lot of the Europeran breeders do..and they are breeding into the American lines for structure, health, temperment..because they want to produce a well rounded champion.
It is only my opinion, but to think of a show dog as pure beauty does a disservice to the dog..not to the breeder, but to the dog itself. Since I love dogs, I can not look at one and think.."you are nothing but a pretty face"...they are real dogs in every aspect.

I respect your opinion, please respect mine.

But Pat, I would even like to add that 'beauty pagent's' amongst young ladies strives for the same purpose. It is not just that the young lady is beautiful, but she is also required to do numerous hours of community service, have a lovely personality, etc. It is not a bad thing either.

I don't feel, however, that you have to show your yorkies to have a good line. It is not one in the same. Breeding takes an enormous amount of time, and I am sure showing takes an equally large amount of time. If a person has a family to take care of and a number of dogs, wouldn't it be better suited for you to have others showing your dogs? Just a guess. I just couldn't see having time for everything.

I am not a breeder, but had one litter of puppies. I know how much of my time that took. I have two children and two steps all in highschool. I do not work a full time job and barely have time to take care of my house and responsitibilities - I couldn't even think of adding to what is on my plate at the moment. Maybe in the future when all the kids are through college - 10 years - I could rethink adding more. Just keeping a show coat has to be a huge job in itself.

I have more respect for others than to suggest they know very little. Having different opinions doesn't make either of us right or wrong. However, I try to choose my words carefully.

I agree, it's the total package, but I still stand by the bottom line, it's a beauty contest, I never once said pretty face. Anyone can step into the ring, if that's what they choose to do. But, by stepping into the ring does not make your (not meaning yours specifically) dog top quality as someone else has implied in this thread. What many of us are saying, you can have top quality yorkies, healthy, well structured, outgoing, friendly dogs, meeting the highest breed standards, that could become a champion, without showing them. In the ring, each dog is judged individually, on it's own merits, based on the breed standards, but in order to win, you are still competing with each dog entered, based on one judges opinion on that particular day. Yes, they have to be qualified to judge. But, it still ends up as one person's opinion. I know what you're going to say, you have to keep doing the ring thing so you can end up with several winning opinions to prove you have a top quality dog.

<pretty is not what wins..a total package wins.. it is a healthy, well structured, outgoing, friendly dog, bred to the standard that should become a champion.> If all the dogs in the ring are equal in your total package, does that make the others less "qualified to be a champion?" No! But they didn't win. ??? The total package is not going to change by stepping into the ring. There are tons of blue ribbon winners out there that have never seen a ring because their owner chooses not to show. They don't need the validation or personal satisfaction. :wink:

Hi Linda, I'm Irene.

In reply to your comment on there are many more show quality Yorkies that aren't show. I've talk to may long time show breeders who produced years and years of Champions. I've always been told that a show quality puppy aka 'the entire package' is few and far between. Comparing breeding programs of a show breeder and a non show breeder. I would think that the non show breeder would have even less of a chance of producing the 'entire package'. I mean no disrepect, but to say that there are plenty of Yorkies out there that can be champions is just not true. Look at puppy find for example. I can't get past the pictures of the Yorkies. I'm not expert by any means but I can certainly tell the majority of the pups on there are NOT even close to the entire package. Heck, many don't even look like Yorkies.
To be honest, if there were so many show Yorkies out there they would be showing and winning right now. I can tell you that when I first got into breeding, I wasn't thinking about showing. But I've produced something that I think is worthy enough of putting in the ring. Even though he has some faults, he's closest to show quality I've produced. Not to show him would be silly. Again, just wanted to give my spin this topic, not trying to argue with ya.

Thanks.

:D bamafan, I like the way you think. If one is going to began breeding they must start someplace (and I don't mean with any dog that comes along), but you can not start with a yorkie that already has been in the ring or comes from that line. The people who breed them won't let you. So what do you do, you start your own line and keep making it better. Many will not sell pups to anyone with the ability to breed them, not saying just anyone should. While I think that there are some good reasons behind this (I would not want to sell a puppy to someone with a puppymill) sometimes it can hinder those who are trying to do good. If you are lucky you meet up with a good breeder who will help you along and will let you purchase good breedable pups, but some people have not had that luck. So they come here to ask questions and learn, and I think it is horrible when they are attacked and bashed instead of helped.

Thank you! Great minds think alike... ;)

:) Hi Irene,
Thank you for speaking up. <I've talk to may long time show breeders who produced years and years of Champions. I've always been told that a show quality puppy aka 'the entire package' is few and far between. > I would expect show breeders to say that. I agree, a non-showing breeder may have less of a chance to produce the total package, but that's my point, the potential is there but some posts have implied that it is impossible and have suggested that unless you show, even if you don't place, that their line is better than those who don't show.

<To be honest, if there were so many show Yorkies out there they would be showing and winning right now.> This is where we part waves. Not everyone WANTS to, has time to or have the finances to go through everything involved with preparing to show. Much more is involved than simply placing your dog to the ring.

<....he's closest to show quality I've produced. Not to show him would be silly.> Perhaps not to show him would be silly to you, but that's your choice. Don't degrade those who choose not to show for whatever reason. And that has been done on this thread, even if not intentional, it has been implied. PS: I'm talking in general, I don't mean you specifically. :kiss2wm:

And I keep thinking about this comment, did I miss the "I'm the best speller" contest.

boy I'm staying out of this cause I cant spell worth crap LOL

This is my point exactly!

The "Beauty Contest" outlook: I do NOT agree with this. There IS much more to it, IMO.

Quote<Not everyone WANTS to, has time to or have the finances to go through everything involved with preparing to show. Much more is involved than simply placing your dog to the ring.>

Well "everyone" seems to brag about CH in the background when selling puppies because it makes them worth something. It doesnt matter how far back they are or if there is only one. To say that someone has produced a show quality Yorkie and just doesn't want to show it just doesn't make sense, if that same person is bragging about the pedigree that was earned by someone else.

Personally, those that don't want to spend the extra time and money involved on showing a quality puppy they've produced is not spending the time and money needed to run the best breeding program they can. Now I'm not saying show every puppy you produce, but IF you produce something that's 'ring worthy' for lack of a better term.

This is just my opinion of course, but also how I run my program. I'm not speaking about your or your program as I know nothing about either.

We can agree to disagree dont' ya think? :)

BamaFan............I've agreed with your posts. Yes, I agree that there is much more to it than just a beauty contest, but when you have 10 or 20 dogs competing with equal "total" packages, bottom line, it boils down to a beauty contest. Everyone assumes that I view the entire process as nothing more than a beauty contest. That is not what think nor what I've said. It's the bottom line. Big difference. :animal-pa