|
Quote:
|
I am glad for your little girls sake that all went well with the c-section. I honestly do not think anyone was trying to be rude here. You said you came for support but if you think about it when a post like this one comes up, we are a forum of Yorkie lovers, so of course our very first and largest concern is for the tiny expecting mom. I like others have said am so thankful you were financially able to get her the help she needed that so many who come here are not. I have smaller yorkies and I would never even consider risking their lives just so I could have pups from them. On this forum we do try to educate and there are so many experienced breeders here who have said over and over not to breed under 5lbs. They did not single you out. If you take the time to go over pasts questions on this subject you will see the same type responses to those posters. Maybe if you could when calmer take time to go back and slowly reread the posts you will see everyone was just trying to help. |
Price of entry is open dialog Brice, glad the puppies are doing okay. I have to disagree with your update. Going back through the thread there were plenty of people who offered you support and advice. Some of it wasn't the way you wanted it, but it was in an attempt to try and help. Further, yes there is a lot of bickering on this board and while there are people that I think can go a little extreme and accusatory - it's the way it is in any community. The bottom line is YOU did get advice and thank god you followed it. I for one found this thread very helpful and the emails from your doctor enlightening and I think it adds another piece of information to the "record" of threads. Now you know: Your yorkie is really almost on the too small side to breed; you can't depend on diapers for contraception; larger males with smaller females can be a problem; when breeding you should be in charge at all times; it's expensive not to know when the tie happened etc. etc. etc.etc. Last I wanted to address one more thing. Your post in a public forum is not just for YOU. It's about the whole community. The price of entry is open dialog. You're going to get professional breeders responding, nonbreeding dog owners responding, nondog owners responding, antagonists, helpfuls, people who donate a TON of their life towards shelters and dogs that a product of irresponsible breeding. And all we have to judge is by our experience and a few words on the screen. Example. In one of your first posts you said: - We don't know the exact date of conception.. only within a week. Then you said: - Bottom line is yes, it WAS an accident - we kept them separated to the best of our ability, and made sure she had a diaper on at all times to prevent something like this from happening, but during the night she somehow managed to wiggle out of her diaper, and got pregnant. The person in me trying to validate if your words are true could take those two statements and ask a ton more... eg. was it just one night out of the diaper? well then you would know when the tie took place... but AH if it wasn't and it was multiple times then it starts to sound fishy and then I have to tailor my response... and then I have to think why was the male intact still? etc. etc. Now this is just an example I don't need answers or care. My point is that I wish out of all of this I would be hearing from you a little more focus on maybe what you've learned and less on schooling everyone for their behavior, particularly when you were the one with the accident. I for one will love to see the puppies and hope you don't intend to breed again. If you do - please get a mentor and do dna testing, etc. etc. :) |
Impish what a great response! What time it took, to elucidate with clarity, the thinking of many breeders and long time fanciers of our breed. Yes accidents do happen, even when you have two intact opposite sex dogs in the house. I am thinking the result of hurricanes, tornadoes. home invasions et al. Or you fainted and or had a heartattack and inadvertently let your dogs out of their rooms and or crates. Those are accidents. I posted before as a breeder sometimes mishaps do happen. But we know it is our dereliction of duty that has occasioned this "accidental" breeding. We didn't latch the crate securely, we left the door open, we went to bed without checking the above. And we are human, but we are breeders; capable of making a termination decision, capable of rearing a litter of pups and DNA;ing to determine parentage. It happened to me. But it was with two fully health tested and purebred same breed dogs, that I did not want to mate to each other. Luckily nothing happened, as my gal only wanted to jump up onto my bed to be with me. The male would not go up on the bed, the Yorkie was in his crate. I could say it was an accident. But it was my fault if a tie had happened that night; no one elses! And just to note, no belly bands or diapers were even considered to be used as a deterrent to mating. It was separate crates and rooms. Unfortunately the two what should have been fail safes failed. Why human error of course. |
Lilly - the keywords in my reply were that we hadnt spayed her yet because we were "hoping" to "eventually" have a litter with her. But being as small as she is, she wasn't ready to until the time comes when/if she gains a handful of oz. So again, this was an accidental pregnancy, but it all worked out for the best. |
Lilly - PS.. I apologize if I replied harshly. Perhaps I misinterpreted your response. However I've taken the liberty of quoting you - here's what you said: "...So for a knowledgeable yorkie person/breeder to ((question a vet on saying breeding a 4lb dog is fine)), is not IMHO out of line at all & IMHO is not fine." So yes, you did say that. I've put it in parenthesis for you :) But anyway its ok, I know you're just sharing your knowledge and opinion. |
Rhetts - I found your post extremely and overwhelmingly rude. Not only did you call me a fool in 3rd person, and basically suggest I "tried" to bring harm (in fact death) upon my little girl, but you also outright called me a liar and that you think my claim of this being an accident is pure BS. The fact of the matter is that it WAS truly an accidental pregnancy, and that I did in fact take precautions to prevent it from happening. Accidents do happen. People can wear a condom and realize afterwards that it broke etc.. But that doesn't mean they didn't take precaution or that it wasn't an accident. Its these kinds of un-needed and un-solicited remarks/posts that im talking about, and make me shake my head in disappointment and disbelief of how rude some of you are. For those of you who haven't read her post in question yet, its on page 8. I'm fairly certain most will agree you crossed the line. |
Quote:
But you already have a measurement at least one of her fitness for breeding, that being the measurement of her pelvic opening that you told us your specialist did. She had too narrow an opening for those pups. The question you should be asking is, a) given a C section "if" I should want to breed this 4lb female, what are the risks with a natural whelp, or if I have to do a C section again because I had one the first time, what are the risks associated with 2 C sections. b) given her pelvic measurements if given her history of a C section a free whelp is recommended, will her pelvic measurements alone preclude her from free whelping? You have not done any health tests on either of your dogs, so I do sincerely hope you investigate things a whole lot better and of course make full disclosure for your puppy purchasers of this litter. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Belly bands and diapers are NOT birth control at all! They each have their function which is NOT birth control for crying out loud! As I explained in my previous post you need separate crates and preferably separate rooms, and exercise separately AND not let them have free run of the house with intact males while in heat. You according to your posts did not do this! Nor does it seem to me you asked a knowledgeable vet about how to prevent unwanted matings with you intact female. Or did he she actually say Diapers were contraceptives? I would love to know the answer to that. An accident is as I have posted before a very unusual set of circumstances that are UNAVOIDABLE, natural disasters, health disasters, fire, etc. Slipping out of a diaper is quite natural for dogs to do, what were your safeguards that were in place to guard against this? Separate rooms, separate crates? None of the forementioned? If not why not? |
Quote:
Spends more time telling us who knows the right way to post...and all that stupid bs. I don't think any of us need lessons from this person. |
Sorry I'm still on page 8 making my replies as I go, making my way to the end of all your posts. |
Lovetodream88 - The only reason I was feeding the pups on my own at first, is because it wasn't a natural birth, so momma didn't understand, and we had to begin giving her oxytocin spray up her nose so she would realize what was going on and take care of her babies. But I'm sure you know all about that lol. She's nursing now though. |
Bjh - thank you for your prayers and kind words. And I know I was warned she would probably need a Csection, but unfortunately due to how far along she was an emergency spay was not an option, so I followed the specialist's advice and followed through with it, expecting a Csection. As far as me saying I hadnt spayed her because i was hoping to breed her eventually, I stated in one of my last replies that the keywords are "hoping" and "eventually" (if/when she gained more weight). However now that this has happened, I do not plan on breeding her in the future, and will have her spayed very soon. The first night we had to feed the pups ourselves until momma started the oxytocin spray and realized they were her babies, but now she's nursing great. Thank you for all the great info. OwnedByJezebel - I wasn't upset that people didn't give me enough advice - I was upset because (1) many of them were rudely written, and repetitive of what was already said and understood, (2) many just ignored the situation I was in, and simply stated their opinions rudely, and that was it, rather than following their comments with help and support for the present situation, instead of just yelling about the past, and MOST OF ALL (3) after they all told me to get advice from a professional and I had posted what I was told, some people got even more stubborn and opinionated and rude, even though I had followed their suggestion and gotten advice from 2 different professionals (a vet, and a specialist). So you can't blame me for being blown away at how many of you act. For the most part you seem fine, but it was still rude to call me a failure and say it was no accident. Because not only did I make sure they were kept apart nearly the whole day, but I also made sure she always had a diaper on, which I now understand isn't the best way to avoid pregnancy, but it certainly helped during every single other heat, until this one when the boy slipped out of the room at 4am when I got up for work, and paired up with her in the middle of the night after her diaper somehow had fallen off. So I'm tired of those who say it was no accident, or that I didn't take precautions, because I did. Accidents do happen people - get over it, move on, and perhaps stop feeding the drama by focusing on the past, and instead, start helping with the present and future. |
[QUOTE=bryce87i;4346862]Bjh - Because not only did I make sure they were kept apart nearly the whole day, but I also made sure she always had a diaper on,(a) which I now understand isn't the best way to avoid pregnancy, but it certainly helped during every single other heat, until this one when the boy slipped out of the room at 4am when I got up for work, and paired up with her in the middle of the night after her diaper somehow had fallen off. So I'm tired of those who say it was no accident, or that I didn't take precautions, because I did. Accidents do happen people - (a) you now understand? What vet told you diapers are a good choice to prevent pregnancy? Did you even ask a vet? (b) every single other heat? Interesting how many did she have before the mistake mating? (c) a boy slipping out of a room seems to indicate that he was not in a crate, and probably not the female. How then did you protect the two from mating? If both were out of crates, how pray tell did you expect to protect them from mating? (d) Your precautions were obviously in-adequate and any repro vet or good breeder if you had asked should have told you how to keep this female safe from mating. As I have said yet twice before on this thread. Accidents are like hurricanes, tornadoes, fires, heart attacks et al, truly those events we can't pre -plan for that may interfere with our ability to keep our dogs safe from mating. MOst everything else is the "breeders" fault, and you are the breeder here. You had two intact dogs. You had the obligation to understand fully how to safeguard your female from mating. Furthermore your vet should have schooled you in this, once he/she realized you decided to keep your female intact. So yes this breeding was no ACCIDENT. It was your failure to plan to safeguard your female most especially because you had a full male in your home. You might like to think it was an accident, but if you fail to find out all you can, you fail to plan how to safeguard your female based on best education, then you PLAN to FAIL. Just admit you were a dunce and made a mistake! |
I think one reason its hard for me to understand it was an accident is because only dogs who are a perfect reprisintaion of the breed should be breed and 10 pounds is over the standard weight and most males used in breeding are half that size so I don't understand why the male had not been fixed. |
Quote:
This woman is not a show breeder nor do I suspect she wants to improve or at the minimum protect the Yorkie breed. She is just a woman who wanted to mate her female to another male, to get puppies. Why I don't know. But certainly not from studied understanding of her and the future stud's lines, and certainly not from doing the most minimal breed specific tests. IMO it is useless to point this out to the OP. She will do what-ever she will. All we can do here is point out as best we can the short-comings or fallacies of her thought processes. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
If you did not intend for her to get pregnant and she did anyway, someone or something failed. Success = no pregnancy, and since pregnancy wasn't prevented there was a failure. You can't blame it on the dogs, they were just doing what dogs do. It was up to you to control the situation, not the dogs or some random set of circumstances. YOU are the human, the only one in the mix that could take precautions to prevent what she had to go through. I don't know why you can't admit that, and it clearly is frustrating many people here that you put the blame somewhere else, like on a diaper that, even if it had remained on, wouldn't have prevented a tie anyway. |
:thumbup::thumbup: Gemy. And again I keep hearing "let's move on, accidents happen, and I want to focus on what I want to know and now." And again I say - Price of admission Bryce is Open Dialog. You are not the owner of the conversation. You may have started it but you don't own it. In your own home you can dismiss people and send them packing with a quick chastising, but it doesn't work that way here. Further if you want to learn anything more for your next time which you obviously are set on doing :rolleyes: and if you want advice from any of these people about how to care for the puppies now - like you were asking because clearly you haven't done this before - you might want to consider respecting the advice you get a little more. There's a lot of valuable information here but you seem so intent on focusing on HOW people should respond that you're not going to hear it, and further you're not going to get it from those that really know what to do. Humility. Humbleness. Grace. If you want to talk about manners, and decency and respect, those are also words you might consider for yourself. Just my opinion of course. [quote=gemy;4346880] Quote:
|
Quote:
Even the vet herself admitted that many vets would have opted to terminate the late pregnancy instead of doing a late c-section...so is it any surprise that many of the people here would have thought the same?!? IMO, this thread is much bigger than the OP. People come on here all of the time with accidental breedings and/or bad breeding choices. This pup is extremely lucky that the OP had the money to save the little girl by opting for a c-section...but I guarantee that MANY inexperienced breeders don't even factor it in as a possible cost...and if their little girl got in trouble, they'd be screwed. I haven't been on here that long, but I am sure if I am on here long enough, eventually, I will hear about a Yorkie dying from complications because the person who bred them was not educated or financially prepared to do so. Hopefully, threads like this will help prevent unwanted pregnancies, and it will show people what to do if they have one!! OP...I know you wouldn't want others to go through what you went through. Hopefully, you can focus on the lessons you've learned from your whole experience instead of focusing on what others have said. Everyone makes mistakes, but maybe because you shared yours, others won't have to go through what you and your pup went through... |
1 Attachment(s) Received multiple emails about a little yorkie and her puppies at a shelter in Houston. Turns out the owner did not know she was pregnant????? .. and when she got into trouble, she took her to the shelter. :( They did a c-section on her yesterday and lost some of the pups. We were going to take her and her pups, but another rescue stepped up this morning. Praying that all will be well. Horrible place for puppies what with parvo and other things in shelters. Just felt it needed to be posted in this thread. These little pups can get in trouble in a heartbeat. Please folks leave the breeding to people who know what to do in an emergency. Here is a picture from the shelter.... Attachment 394036 |
OMG poor girl must be so scared!:(:(:( Confused as to why she wasn't taken to a vet instead of to the shelter.:confused::confused::confused: So sad! |
How terribly sad for that little yorkie. I am glad she and some of her babies are okay. Did the owner surrender the yorkie because they could not afford the c-section? I pray the momma and babies find good forever homes. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
As you know a small dog with small pups inside can not show until the very end and that to a discerning dog owner. |
That is so sad. Poor thing needs to feel safe while she is taking care of her babies. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Unfortunately, it's the poor animals that have to pay the price of their health and life because of the inexperienced owners, and then it's the rescues who have to shell out the finances to clean up their messes. Did they surrender the dog to the Houston SPCA?? I wish they could go after the owner and charge them with abuse...and along with jail time, I think the owners should have to pay for the dogs c-section/vet bills. If they made people financially responsible for the dogs in situations like these, maybe people would stop abusing,neglecting and being downright irresponsible with their pets!! |
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:13 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2003 - 2018 YorkieTalk.com
Privacy Policy - Terms of Use