Question????

[normarae63]

Originally Posted by lovespandp

I'm pretty sure we are aware. We're not 10 years old.. We know what goes on in this world.

It's comments like this that really get under people's skin.

I'm curious how that Tree of yours is doing Deanna. Seems like it's roots have gotten stronger & all those shiny new leaves have fallen off.

[Foster2Owner]

Although I've seen Morkies that look like Biewers, I believe the story that a Biewer is actually a cross between a Yorkshire Terrier and a Shih-Tzu. So mixing a Biewer again with a Yorkie to me would only increase its likelihood to look more like a yorkie.

Is your friend a breeder or just a pet owner who would keep the offspring?

-Although I understand the argument for purity, I think mixing happens and can be a good thing to some. The main issue is health. If the lines were healthy that's one thing but unknown backgrounds can be dangerous to the pup's quality of life.

[Toby'sMama]

Originally Posted by Foster2Owner

Although I've seen Morkies that look like Biewers, I believe the story that a Biewer is actually a cross between a Yorkshire Terrier and a Shih-Tzu. So mixing a Biewer again with a Yorkie to me would only increase its likelihood to look more like a yorkie.

Is your friend a breeder or just a pet owner who would keep the offspring?

-Although I understand the argument for purity, I think mixing happens and can be a good thing to some. The main issue is health. If the lines were healthy that's one thing but unknown backgrounds can be dangerous to the pup's quality of life.

Based on the Biewer history, this is not true. Two Yorkshire Terriors who both carried the recessive color gene were bred, and they had puppies with the black/blue, white and tan/gold colors. There were also black/blue and tan/gold puppies in the litters. Mr. Biewer's dogs who carried the recessive color gene came from the same kennel that the Parti yorkie came from.

[Rhetts_mama]

According to the BCTA, the Biewer is a relative of the Yorkshire Terrier, but has a distinct and separate Genetic makeup.

Although the Biewer Terrier is a relative to the Yorkshire Terrier it is evident that they are not the same breed. After two years of working with world renown geneticists at Mars Veterinary, we have been able to establish that the Biewer Terrier is a completely separate breed with a genetic make up, unique to the Biewer Terrier.

Biewer Terrier Club of America, Inc.

The BBCA only breeds Biewer to Biewer and not Biewer to Yorkie or Parti Yorkie. They also claim that the Biewer is a distinct breed that has Yorkshire Terrier in their history.

"Although the ancestry of the Biewer includes Yorkshire Terrier lines it is through select Biewer to Biewer breeding that has established the Biewer as a distinct breed."

Biewer Breed Club of America

So, from their point of view, breeding a Yorkie to Biewer would indeed result in a mixed breed.

[Toby'sMama]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

According to the BCTA, the Biewer is a relative of the Yorkshire Terrier, but has a distinct and separate Genetic makeup.

Although the Biewer Terrier is a relative to the Yorkshire Terrier it is evident that they are not the same breed. After two years of working with world renown geneticists at Mars Veterinary, we have been able to establish that the Biewer Terrier is a completely separate breed with a genetic make up, unique to the Biewer Terrier.

Biewer Terrier Club of America, Inc.

The BBCA only breeds Biewer to Biewer and not Biewer to Yorkie or Parti Yorkie. They also claim that the Biewer is a distinct breed that has Yorkshire Terrier in

"Although the ancestry of the Biewer includes Yorkshire Terrier lines it is through select Biewer to Biewer breeding that has established the Biewer as a distinct breed."

Biewer Breed Club of America

So, from their point of view, breeding a Yorkie to Biewer would indeed result in a mixed breed.

And those are the key words... "according to them". I am not even going to get into any club politics. I will say that I wouldn't believe anything the BTCA says. They have been caught in way too many lies and nefarious conduct. And the Mars test isn't all that accurate in most cases

Keep in mind, these clubs are pushing for AKC recognition, and some will do anything to be "the first.". Therefore, most of the claims they make are questionable. They seem to care more about the AKC badge of honor then the health and well-being of the dogs.

[lovespandp]

Originally Posted by normarae63

It's comments like this that really get under people's skin.

I'm curious how that Tree of yours is doing Deanna. Seems like it's roots have gotten stronger & all those shiny new leaves have fallen off.

Well you know what they say.. "curiosity killed the cat".

[lynzy420]

Originally Posted by lovespandp

Well you know what they say.. "curiosity killed the cat".

"and satisfaction brought it back"


ON TOPIC NOW: But who will ultimately determine what the breed standard is For the Biewer? If it is recognized by AKC etc., wouldn't they then HAVE to be bred according to "spec" who determines the spec? I see now why it is so difficult to get accepted by the AKC...

[ladyjane]

Same stuff/different day. This kind of junk is nothing but exhausting. So happy that I got unfriended because clearly things/people don't change. Leopards spots remain the same.

[lovespandp]

[QUOTE=lynzy420;4334391]"and satisfaction brought it back"

Hmmmmmmmm hmmmmm thats a new one. Never heard it, you must have made that one up.

[lynzy420]

Originally Posted by Toby'sMama

And those are the key words... "according to them". I am not even going to get into any club politics. I will say that I wouldn't believe anything the BTCA says. They have been caught in way too many lies and nefarious conduct. And the Mars test isn't all that accurate in most cases

Keep in mind, these clubs are pushing for AKC recognition, and some will do anything to be "the first.". Therefore, most of the claims they make are questionable. They seem to care more about the AKC badge of honor then the health and well-being of the dogs.

What nefarious lies, an example? Could it be that until the line is "pure" and an established breed its irrelevant? Isn't that how the Yorkshire Terrier breed started?

I'm trying to understand the relevancy of the breed standard and the "AKC badge"....what does the AKC need for proof to be able to recognize a breed?

[Toby'sMama]

Originally Posted by lynzy420

What nefarious lies, an example? Could it be that until the line is "pure" and an established breed its irrelevant? Isn't that how the Yorkshire Terrier breed started?

I'm trying to understand the relevancy of the breed standard and the "AKC badge"....what does the AKC need for proof to be able to recognize a breed?

It was lies and nefarious "conduct." Here's but one example -- http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...rs-owners.html

A breed club sets the standard for the breed. that's why the BTCA changed the name from Biewer Yorkshire ala Pom Pom to Biewer Terrier. If the dog is part of an AKC breed, I.e. Yorkshire Terrier, it can't be recognized as its own breed. There's several things AKC requires -- there must be a National Breed Club, certain number of dogs, breed and litter records, etc. These are just a few of requirements for AKC recognition of a new breed.

Again, I won't get into the clubs politics, but there are many threads here that document many of the problems between the clubs...

[nanahas3]

To the OP I hope all goes well for this persons pups if she is indeed pregnant. I think all of us on here really and sincerely are against byb's and we all hate puppy mills. We all hate the fact that so many precious lifes are in the pound awaiting execution but, the fact is, and I am guilty as most of us are of wanting a Yorkie. No sadly I didn't go to the humane society to get one. Yes we have since had a very precious little rescue girl but sadly didn't get to have her long. So what I am trying to say is yes we need to fight against all of the above but we also ALL who bought and did not adopt are guilty of contributing to the over population of these beloved pups. Arguing and fighting here really is helping no one. The holidays are around the corner and I hate to see friends not getting along. I consider each and everyone I meet here as such and it really breaks my heart watching all this.

[Rhetts_mama]

Originally Posted by Toby'sMama

And those are the key words... "according to them". I am not even going to get into any club politics. I will say that I wouldn't believe anything the BTCA says. They have been caught in way too many lies and nefarious conduct. And the Mars test isn't all that accurate in most cases

Keep in mind, these clubs are pushing for AKC recognition, and some will do anything to be "the first.". Therefore, most of the claims they make are questionable. They seem to care more about the AKC badge of honor then the health and well-being of the dogs.

For someone who doesn't want to get in to breed politics, you sure do like to bring it up. Club politics exists not just in the Biewer clubs, but the YTCA as well.

As for the validity of the Mars test, there have been multiple threads on YT and elsewhere discussing its validity.

For now, Parti breeders don't consider their dogs Biewers and Biewers don't consider their dogs Parti's. What the final answer is will have to be worked out at some future date. I don't have a dog in the fight. I am merely putting out what is out their from the clubs to point out that Lynzy's question about whether the resultant pups would be considered mixed breed a valid question at this time.

[Toby'sMama]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

For someone who doesn't want to get in to breed politics, you sure do like to bring it up. Club politics exists not just in the Biewer clubs, but the YTCA as well.

As for the validity of the Mars test, there have been multiple threads on YT and elsewhere discussing its validity.

For now, Parti breeders don't consider their dogs Biewers and Biewers don't consider their dogs Parti's. What the final answer is will have to be worked out at some future date. I don't have a dog in the fight. I am merely putting out what is out their from the clubs to point out that Lynzy's question about whether the resultant pups would be considered mixed breed a valid question at this time.

If I said "breed" politics, I meant "club" politics. And I agree with you 100% that club politics most likely exist in any breed club -- not just YTCA and the Biewer clubs.

And, there are probably just as many threads on YT and elsewhere about the Mars test that talk about its invalidity. I do personally feel that they may have improved the quality of their research, but when the testing was done on the Biewers, it was not very dependable. Mix that in with quality control of the tests being sent in not under Mars control, there seems to be skewed results.

What breed do the Parti owners consider their dogs? Yorkie. They are not referred to as "mutts.". Biewers are not considered Parties, because they are not registered as AKC. Parties are not considered Biewers, because they are not registered with the IBC, which is the Breed club in Germany. My response to Linzy was based on the breed's country of origin club rules. In Germany, if you breed a yorkie to a Biewer, they are NOT considered a "mutt.". They are classified according to their color.

[bjh]

Parti yorkie just refers to the parti color. Just like you would say chocolate yorkie or blue and gold yorkie. They are all yorkies but just different colors.

I know a Biewer/Yorkie mix cannot be registered as a yorkie with AKC but I am wondering if they be registered as a Biewer with any of the Biewer clubs? Does anyone know?