Snow Blue Yorkies?

[gemy]

I tend to agree with this assessment.

It is unfortunate that you first elaborated on the Pekingese. Arguably one of the "oldest" pure breds around. It was bred by the Chinese to be just a lap dog, and a sharp barker. They were not expected to walk at all, but to sit quietly on the royalty's lap, unless a threat was heard/smelt. So actually that was one of the better moving Peke's that I've seen. Their heavy coat does make them very hot in indoor show environments. Would I love to see them move better? Well yes actually. but that is just moi, an uninformed novice in terms of the Pekes structure temperament etc.

GSD's, go to Europe and you won't find the mess the American Breeders made of this beautiful animal. But they are trying to correct it. Took only about 10yrs to "ruin" the breed, and will probably take 30 yrs to correct; which my understanding is that many GSD breeders have been in the throes of doing this for quite some time.

Obese dogs and people certainly seem to be a problem in North America. Show ring dogs are not exempt it appears from the epidemic of "fatness" that is pervasive in the culture. I'm sure you know of this, as there have been many studies, talks, and articles about this epidemic.

Is the show world perfect? No and I mentioned that before as well. But it is a system that is in place, and does have checks and balances. But I can't speak of the show world in Europe or outside North AMerica; I do know that there are other countries that require much more from a show dog prior to placing a CH title on them, certain European countries being one. Germans have a whole structued breeding evaluative system in place, and one that is amazing. There are requirements each breeding dog must meet before being bred, and the breeder is examined,her place of whelping inspected, within three days of the whelp the examiner is on their doorstep to "inspect", etc. There is also apparently a huge supportive network of experienced breeders who train/coach the novice.

I do hope we as a North American breed fanciers, can make changes from within.

[SnowBlueYorkies]

Originally Posted by lynzy420

eiyieyieyie...do you realize that you just did exactly the same thing in your post that you are accusing Standard Yorkie breeders of ? Your insinuations are far more reaching...you covered many breeds there...health, color etc., its the same argument...your criticizing and critiqing them...the only difference is they are recognized by akc and yours are not....how do you expect to make headway in this arena if you do this?

I was talking about Health and structure. BTW My yorkies are all AKC registered.

[TammyJM]

Originally Posted by lynzy420

eiyieyieyie...do you realize that you just did exactly the same thing in your post that you are accusing Standard Yorkie breeders of ? Your insinuations are far more reaching...you covered many breeds there...health, color etc., its the same argument...your criticizing and critiqing them...the only difference is they are recognized by akc and yours are not....how do you expect to make headway in this arena if you do this?

These Yorkies (chocolate, parti, gold....the "off colors") are recognized by AKC if they came from 2 parents registered with AKC. You might be talking about YTCA. This is a group of people that have come up with what they feel the standard should be. Maybe this is what you were thinking of.

[bchgirl]

A far better standard in my opionion...find a breeder who health tests their breeding pairs, and can provide the documentation, one who health tests their puppies, and someone involved with actual showing beyond watching it on tv. That's the breeder to search out for ANY color.

[lynzy420]

Originally Posted by TammyJM

These Yorkies (chocolate, parti, gold....the "off colors") are recognized by AKC if they came from 2 parents registered with AKC. You might be talking about YTCA. This is a group of people that have come up with what they feel the standard should be. Maybe this is what you were thinking of.

Yes, yes of course thats what I meant...AKC, YTCA...oy...Even after I read it I didn't see my error! Thanks Tammy, hopefully it was as obvious to others as it was to you!

For the record I stand corrected YTCA, which of course is a vital part of the dear I say "argument"

I've gotten some very bad news today re my Miss Mini...so I'm not as sharp/dull - whichever way you see me as I normally am.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by TammyJM

These Yorkies (chocolate, parti, gold....the "off colors") are recognized by AKC if they came from 2 parents registered with AKC. You might be talking about YTCA. This is a group of people that have come up with what they feel the standard should be. Maybe this is what you were thinking of.

I would not describe any National breed club as one that just "came up" with what they feel the standard should be. They are the guardians of a legacy that has been handed down to them.

I am not intimately familiar with historically how the AKC recognizes new breeds, afterall the YT has been a recognized breed for many many years. But here in Canada, you need to go through a whole process(one that I am intimately familiar with), to get a new breed recognized. And first you are in the Misc Class, and the STANDARD for the Breed is the approved Standard of the country of origin. I dare say it must be similar in the US. So actually not what a group of US folks came up with.

It is both a privilege and a huge responsibility to change a standard. And no club that I know of, does it willy/nilly. Good sound reasons, proven over time, with appropriate and valid documentation/research etc, needs to be understood and presented to the membership for voting on.

[TammyJM]

Originally Posted by gemy

I would not describe any National breed club as one that just "came up" with what they feel the standard should be.

This is an example of how things get taken and twisted and cause problems. I didn't write anything with intention and yet, I get corrected. I was simply trying to quickly explain to someone what the difference was between AKC and YTCA.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by TammyJM

This is an example of how things get taken and twisted and cause problems. I didn't write anything with intention and yet, I get corrected. I was simply trying to quickly explain to someone what the difference was between AKC and YTCA.

You may not have meant it that way, but I have to be honest and say it is how I read it as well.
Very touchy subject I suppose.

[manolos mom]

Originally Posted by BiewerYorkie

Snow Blue Yorkies....don't take this all to heart. This is easy to say and hard to do I know. But some people delight in conflict and making others feel bad. Best to just ignore any further posts and let this BAD thread die.....

Louise

BTW, I would LOVE one of your healthy CHOCOLATE YORKIES! It's like some people saying my Biewer if or is not a separate breed. Regardless of WHAT Zachary is, he is my little parti colored Yorkie boy and I wouldn't give him up for the most perfect looking conformation wise Yorkie out there. Your dogs are GORGEOUS.

Louise, this is not a bad thread BUT filled with lots of EDUCATION. Chocolate Yorkies are NOT the STANDARD, BUT CHANGING OUR BREED. Do you not get that.....PARTIS AND GOLDEN INCLUDED. I heard that one of your friends is now has up to 20 dogs and is BREEDING, GOLDENS, CHOCOLATES AND PARTIS. HMMMM WONDER WHO....

[manolos mom]

Originally Posted by TammyJM

These Yorkies (chocolate, parti, gold....the "off colors") are recognized by AKC if they came from 2 parents registered with AKC. You might be talking about YTCA. This is a group of people that have come up with what they feel the standard should be. Maybe this is what you were thinking of.

Tammy, AKC means nothing....Puppy Mills, PetSTORES and fly by nights can get an AKC Registration. You need to move beyond that. I thought you where heading in the right direction when Mardeline had to help you whelp your puppies over the phone, REMEMBER? She stayed with you!! Because you brought life into this world. We thought you really wanted to learn and do the RIGHT THING for the BREED.....

[manolos mom]

Originally Posted by gemy

I would not describe any National breed club as one that just "came up" with what they feel the standard should be. They are the guardians of a legacy that has been handed down to them.
I am not intimately familiar with historically how the AKC recognizes new breeds, afterall the YT has been a recognized breed for many many years. But here in Canada, you need to go through a whole process(one that I am intimately familiar with), to get a new breed recognized. And first you are in the Misc Class, and the STANDARD for the Breed is the approved Standard of the country of origin. I dare say it must be similar in the US. So actually not what a group of US folks came up with.

It is both a privilege and a huge responsibility to change a standard. And no club that I know of, does it willy/nilly. Good sound reasons, proven over time, with appropriate and valid documentation/research etc, needs to be understood and presented to the membership for voting on.

[jencar98]

Originally Posted by manolos mom

Louise, this is not a bad thread BUT filled with lots of EDUCATION. Chocolate Yorkies are NOT the STANDARD, BUT CHANGING OUR BREED. Do you not get that.....PARTIS AND GOLDEN INCLUDED. I heard that one of your friends is now has up to 20 dogs and is BREEDING, GOLDENS, CHOCOLATES AND PARTIS. HMMMM WONDER WHO....

I've never understood this line of reasoning. Just how does that fact that these color variations occur, does it change the breed? What is changed? As long as there are yorkie purists there will be traditional color yorkies. Has the introduction of other colors in other breeds changed those breeds significantly, even the public's perception of what the breed should appear to be?

I don't even care if non-traditional color yorkies are ever allowed in the show ring, as I don't think it's absolutely necessary to show dogs, to be a good breeder. I've seen far too many show dogs bred that should have never been, just as I have non-show dogs.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by manolos mom

Louise, this is not a bad thread BUT filled with lots of EDUCATION. Chocolate Yorkies are NOT the STANDARD, BUT CHANGING OUR BREED. Do you not get that.....PARTIS AND GOLDEN INCLUDED. I heard that one of your friends is now has up to 20 dogs and is BREEDING, GOLDENS, CHOCOLATES AND PARTIS. HMMMM WONDER WHO....

There is no way anyone who has 20 dogs is taking proper care of them and I don't care who it is unless they are independently wealthy. I know what I spend to care for my four pets with top notch veterinary care and diligent prevention and I am going to the poor house. I wonder what testing is being done on 20 dogs that would net any real value let alone produce a sound dog. I agree with bchgirl that one needs to see the documentation because quite frankly anyone can "talk the talk" yet few can deliver the actual proof.

[manolos mom]

Originally Posted by jencar98

I've never understood this line of reasoning. Just how does that fact that these color variations occur, does it change the breed? What is changed? As long as there are yorkie purists there will be traditional color yorkies. Has the introduction of other colors in other breeds changed those breeds significantly, even the public's perception of what the breed should appear to be?

I don't even care if non-traditional color yorkies are ever allowed in the show ring, as I don't think it's absolutely necessary to show dogs, to be a good breeder. I've seen far too many show dogs bred that should have never been, just as I have non-show dogs.

Do you still work in RESCUE? Just curious. We need GOOD BREEDING JEN, NOT BREEDING for a Public demand. SIZE AND COLOR DO MATTER....LETS KEEP IT PURE AND THE WAY THE GUIDELINES HAVE BE SET FORTH IN PLACE. By breeding for a Market,"some on here do", this is giving WRONG INFORMATION WHICH WOULD LEAD TO MORE AND MORE YORKIES IN RESCUE. GET IT?

[jencar98]

Originally Posted by manolos mom

Tammy, AKC means nothing....Puppy Mills, PetSTORES and fly by nights can get an AKC Registration. You need to move beyond that. I thought you where heading in the right direction when Mardeline had to help you whelp your puppies over the phone, REMEMBER? She stayed with you!! Because you brought life into this world. We thought you really wanted to learn and do the RIGHT THING for the BREED.....

I would like to think that Mary did this out of the goodness of her heart, purely because a YT member was in crisis and needed help, not because it was used as a method of getting one to conform to a group's beliefs. Low blow Lissette

Also AKC, flawed and all, is the sanctioning club for YTCA shows, correct?