Disagree ! Why show dog lines have such bad legs? If every show breeder would be as perfect as U have described Patella luxation ,Phertes wouldnt be a massive problem . Why are thoose problems current ??

What is this Phertes you keep mentioning?

Oh, I know what Leggs-Perthes is. I just did not know that was what you were talking about.

English must not be this person language.

I always like something a little different. As far as dogs, I have had a Hairless Chinese Crested and now have 2 Japanese Chins.

When I had my Crested put down to old age related problems, I was going to get another Chin. Then I decided to get a Yorkie as I have wanted one for a long long time.

I was supposed to go see a traditional Yorkie and then called a lady that had Biewers. When we got there and I saw Zachary, I fell in love with him. It is personal taste. Even though people don't say "Oh, it's a Yorkie" but rather "He looks sort of like a Yorkie", Zachary is a healthy, happy and smart Biewer. Even though I love the look of a Biewer and would probably get another if I was to get another Yorkie, I would chose a healthy "traditional" Yorkie over a less than healthy Biewer.

I mean, really, what is the problem? If the dog is healthy, happy and smart like my Zachary :D , your only decision should be the color YOU want.

Trying to "limit" the colors of a healthy dog makes no sense. You don't want a Chocolate? (I would get one if I could). Get another color. Let those that enjoy something "different" enjoy it.

Louise and her Biewer Yorkie Terrier, Zachary who's parents came from Germany (OR should it be Sir Zachary) :wink::wink::wink:

Her Locale is Paris. Maybe French Yorkies have lots of Leggs Perthes disease? I don't know' Leggs Perthes is still not what I would call "common in the YT" here in America.

However LP is pretty common not just for Yorkies but for all Toy Breeds.

And she has a point; some countries do require the full scale of health tests to be done per breed and passed prior a Championship Award being Awarded.

Ahhh Haaa I see that now. Paris, France.

You wrote:"I am only saying as a fact that show yorkies are having generally problems with their legs!"
I have no idea where or how you got that idea? Fact is the show dog has to be sound or cannot be in the show rings. You don't just take them in and stand there. They move. The judge goes over their structure including knees. Etc. Ihave seen show dogs reach a very ripe old age and can still move like a dream. Where have you been to shows that you think this? Or had your hands on show dogs that you think this to be so?
Do you really think people that show their dogs perhaps sell show dogs from their line or offer stud services would do so with unsound stock? Guess what happens in the whelping box of another breeder if they do? Geee I wonder!

About colour, this is a good article well researched and based on knowledge of genetics. Goldenray Genetics Chocolate Yorkies Red Golden or Yorkie Blue Borns CDA

I also do not understand how he/she says that all show lines have leg issues. I am not so certain that is true.

I do know leg issues are common in yorkies, but that is due to poor and indiscriminate breeding imo and I am not so sure it is accurate to state they are in all show lines.

Maybe it's a French thing then?

Aboslutely not a French thing. I personally know some show breeders in France. Show breeders there are very closely scrutinized to the health of their dogs and it is very difficult to get a championship in France.

People who breed off-colors often excuse their breeding practices by complaining about show breeders and how they breed for looks and not health. If you ask me, it’s a krockfull of . . . :p

:yelrotflm:yelrotflm:yelrotflm

If colour doesn't hurt then why is blue born lethal? Or white often causing deafness? Or merle to merle in some breeds causes blindness and that can include a mixed breed with merle colouring behind it even of different breeds in its background.
If it is all the show breeders fault that perthes or patella luxation is present then who is at fault that the problems in mutts going back to many generations of mutts have way more problems and incidences of health and structure issues than purebreds from a reputable show breeder.
The problem with health issues in mutts is that they are not tracked. They are either euthanized or surgically dealt with and no one ever knows about it. A mutt isn't a breed so how do you put any health issues on the mutt breed? You can't.
Breed clubs and these are comprised of the show breeders keep in touch with health problems that may occur in their breeds. Exactly where do you think the money comes from to support research into genetic or other congenital diseases in dogs? The byb? I think not!! Try the show breeders, their breed and parent clubs. Where do health testing clinics get held? Dog shows AKC and Canadian Kennel Club shows in Canada and these are put together including getting the Vet specialist by the breed club holding the show and it takes a lot of work to organize that on top of their show.
Do you think all this just falls out of the sky? I can't begin to tell you the work and dedication of the show breeder and our all breed and breed Clubs that are responsible for hosting the dogs shows and keeping the purebred show dogs going into the show rings, writing aobut them for dog magazines, talking about health and care issues. All of it.

Krokkful are you from Paris, TX? Looks like you have a zip code similar to a TX one.

Actually she denoted how she got that idea; her Dad is a vet and her uncle a surger(?) Perhaps surgeon. Given translation from French to English.

Perhaps you can ask her to link the French Health Data Bases so we can all look up the incidence of LP and Leggs Perthes:)

Something wrong with the claim of Dad is a vet. Vets are not allowed to fix LCP or a knee so bad to need surgery for it to go back into the ring. They have to be spayed/neutered. It is totally wrong to try to point fingers at the show dog and their incidence of health issues without addressing those of the mutt or other byb products.
There will be health issues in animals period. Whether those born in the wild depending on the species or the domesticated animal. That's life. It is what the breeders that purposely breed two animals do to hopefully not produce a problem or if they do then what? Compared to irresponsible breeders who breed sell their wares and have no interest in anything else.
You see, I do mobile dog grooming, have done so for over 20 years. The number of small dogs that are mutts or some pb from byb's with genetic health issues has been mind boggling. Yes some are healthy but many people don't realize the many dogs that do have health issues that are not purebred but mutts. And as I have said many go back to many generations of mutts producing mutt or in the case of byb's stuff, they are not registered who knows what is behind them and many times they are not pb anyway.

Lorraine I personally don't know what vets are allowed by their license to do in Paris, France; how-ever I do know here in America many general vets do fix Luxating Patella, and are skilled enough to ddx'd the LP and for some even give a credible grade to it. For me no general vet would ever put a knife to my dog for LP or Leggs Perthes ie Femoral Head Surgery.

The issue of cross breds and "multi breeds" ie the old acronymn of mutts and their health will continue to be an "issue", as as you well know no health databases are extant that report on these concerns. We all have our biases, based on the little of the dog world we do interact with. Until we get scientific data on a large enough cross section of the population done in a meaningful way, there is only your opinion, my opinion and the neighbour's next door's opinion. I personally see many mutts (IMO) that have either hip or elbow dysplasia (likely so), doing their doggy best to get by, as they are walked by their owners. In fact because my interest is in movement, I am always observing gait when out and about. I an cognizant how-ever that my many years of observing dogs, purebred, mixed what-ever, and no matter how many dogs I have observed; is in no way scientific knowledge. I do not subscribe to the view cross breeds are healthier, or unheathier then mixes. I simply Do Not Know the answer, as there is no bulk of scientific evidence to support my opinion.

Is this a law? I am not being flippant but I know of no mandate to back this statement.

I bred biewers I would not bred a dog which required surgery to correct a leg issue. I health test my dogs. I actively show them, abet it is not an akc ring but is under akc judges. What else would you suggest I do?

LP is rampant in yorkies...even championed ones. I know this for a fact.

Common sense is a flower that doesn't grow in everyone's garden.

I apologize my post wasn't directed at you, or it shouldn't have been. I was referring to breeders as I described and you don't appear to be one of them. That was not meant to be personal either. I am sorry...

p.s. I have a Biewer and a Yorkie...I love all animals though!

THANK YOU NANCY!! Her name "krockfull" says it all!! My point is, Lets keep a Yorkie a Yorkie...Nothing more nothing less than a Yorkie.. Bottom line, A Good Breeder will follow the YTCA guidelines. Fly by night Breeders just want to breed for money and could care less about the Breed.

ho hum.. the tune is dum the words don't mean a thing.. isn't this a silly song to sing before the king!.. Sorry for the "silly" song.. BUT that's what your response sounds like to me .. again, someone is making a blanket statement that is untrue.. obviously, you have not cared to read what has been written BY Snow Blue or ABOUT Snow Blue, or you are just making a blanket statment about ALL Parti/off color yorkie breeders. Please.. for heavens sake, don't LEARN anything knew here.. you've come with your mind made up.

Do you ONLY see color in these dogs.. Is that ALL there is to them?? Do you not see ANYTHING else to their marvelous beings? They are oooh so much more than just coat! Acutually, I personally focus on the rest of them first... THEN I worry about the color.. it's amazing what a truly nice dog you get. By the way.. they are STILL yorkies..don't be afraid, color doesn't change them .. not one.. Little.. BIT!

An open mind is a glorious thing.. the world is so much nicer when you open some windows and let some light in.

-Diana :animal-pa

Ok Lynzy

-Diana :animal-pa

All animals are marvelous beings and more than their colors. I don't think that is the point here. ...

I have read through this thread, and I'm wondering what is exactly the point? I'm not trying to tick anyone off here, just trying to understand. Biewer, Parti, Chocolate, Traditional....they are all beautiful yorkies IMO. So whats the point? As long as the pups are healthy, colour is a personal choice...no?

No, it's a little more complicated than that. Every breed has a standard, an ethical breeder follows standard, and she doesn't pick and choose what parts of standard she personally likes. Say a breeder likes long floppy ears like a Maltese, should that breeder start breeding for that trait? Previous breeders have worked hard to create a standard and get breeding dogs to produce puppies that will resemble the mother and father. As you may know, when you breed two different breeds together, you really can't predict the results at all; it could look totally like one breed, or the other, or a mixture of both! The reason I’m in favor of purebred breeding, is that you can predict what the adult will look like and how it will behave, this is important so that dogs will not “disappoint” their owners and end up in rescue. If we didn’t have an overabundance of dogs that we kill each year, because no one wants them, this wouldn’t be such a problem and people could breed whatever. If you don’t follow standard, where do you stop? Some people want to change standard to have wiry hair, like a Cairn Terrier, some love the droopy ears like a Maltese, some love the black and white, rather than the blue and gold, but it’s the duty of the breed club to protect standard and never change it unless health issues have been a problem due to the written standard. This isn’t true with Yorkies, and in fact, it really isn’t known whether breeding for the white may cause more health problems. Hopefully the breeders who are breeding off color dogs are doing it for the right reasons, and will be responsible, and share their information with others, for example if they produce a puppy that is deaf, they should not only not breed the parents who produced it, but tell everyone who has a dog related to the dogs who produced it. By the way, for some to suggest that we are prejudiced because we believe in every breed having a standard and breeders following that standard, well, that’s is just ridiculous.

Ohhhh ok i get it! (I think) But isn't say the parti yorkie still a yorkie, but with a fault...colour? I realize that some are breeding for color, so therefore they aren't following the standard...correct? Personally im not a breeder, but i still love the colouring of the Biewer, thats why i am actively looking for one...I do have two that are traditional colour. From what im understandering the biewers that were developed in Germany were 'developed' (for lack of a better word) from the tradional yorkshire terrier....if i'm wrong please correct me. I'm trying to figure out what this war (so to speak) is about between those that breed tradional and those that breed Biewer I guess that those that breed the Biewer aren't following what the YTCA has set as a standard?...So why isn't there a standard for the biewer??? I'm sooo confused :confused:

The biewers have their own breed clubs and their own standard