Starting with a healthy good quality foundation for breeding!

[Suncera]

OMG, i'm really understanding your chart, thank you so much!

[chachi]

Originally Posted by Suncera

I have considered that as well if I choose to start back breeding, but can not breed Sasha anymore. But now I have to ask which brings me back to my original post How do I know of if I am getting a good quality breeding b**** and Sire. I mean like I say Sasha's Sire has a good quality line in his pedigree. I mean is this gene carried from decades ago with some still passing it on. The most highest top quality dogs can be still passing it on without knowing. I really won't to understand this!!!!

It is really sad breeders are passing on that gene.

As far as finding a good quality sire and dam goe to shows and get familiar with breeders that are breeding for health and good representatives of the breed and dont settle for less than quality

[Suncera]

I've been going to the AKC website to see when and where shows are being held. But again don't know how far I will get there being that i'm not a good political person, and I have been told by veterinarians as well as a couple of breeders some that have limited registrations on their dogs that it is very hard getting into starting a good program rather its to show or to breed your yorkshire terriers.

[navillusc]

Originally Posted by Suncera

it also makes me wonder How far and long has this gene been carried because the lady I bought my Sasha from 3 years ago. Her male is AKC registered and her Female was CKC registered which back then I didn't understand what I understand now about being AKC and CKC, which that is a whole different political topic and view point. I do know from his pedigree that he comes from a nice line of breeders, so this means this gene is still spreading. And with Sasha's Dam, she has a nice pedigree as well. Like i say I can only speak for Sasha but she did have siblings and her mom and dad was breed one more time before getting the male fixed. I still keep up with Sasha's parents owner as well.

I am really sorry to have to tell you this, but the gene will carry unknown until it is discovered, and beyond if breeding is allowed to continue after it is discovered, which is why, now that it has been discovered in both Sasha and the stud, neither should be bred again. It is a situation that could 'spider' out like broken glass or ice on a pond...and may already have. If Sasha and the stud were the only carriers in their respective litters, then only their previous breedings together and with other dams/sires would be suspect...but there is likely no way to know for certain if that is the case.

Obviously, the attached is not something you would ever want to do in Yorkies, but the first chart represents the genetic odds of what would happen were a carrier to be mated with a blue born. As the chart shows, especially in litters of 1 or 2, even KNOWING a blue born was deliberately being bred to a carrier or if it was being bred to an unknown carrier, the breeding might still not throw an actual blue born pup, but would most definitely throw carriers because every pup gets 1 gene from each parent.

The second chart shows that breeding a dominant (no recessives for this gene) to a blue born would produce pups that are all carriers of the gene.

Sasha's blue born pup is proof positive that both Sasha and the sire are carriers as blue born occurs with 2 recessive genes since delivery of a blue born pup is 100% accurate. Since Sasha is a carrier, either her dam or her sire or both are also carriers...and so on up the lines they come from. Since Sasha has siblings, any of them could be carriers but there may be no way to know for certain unless one produces a blue born...in which case the situation is the same as with Sasha and the sire of this litter...both would be proved positively carriers.

Since Sasha's dam and sire were bred together one more time before the sire was altered, there will possibly also be carriers from that litter. If the dam is still in a breeding program, if she is a carrier, she could still be passing the recessive gene along.

[navillusc]

Originally Posted by Suncera

OMG, i'm really understanding your chart, thank you so much!

You're welcome...the Punnett Squares (charts) do show it very clearly...the "red" and "green" emphasis were mine in an effort to make it as obvious as possible. Understanding the 'concept' of how all the pieces fit together can be confusing.

Of course, you also understand that just because you have a litter of four pups does not mean you'll get one of each configuration in any of the charts I posted...riiiight...it just means you 'could'...there are additional 'odds and probabilities' that make it even more complicated what you will actually get..plus other factors.

[Suncera]

I understand, I have called and text the buyers of Sasha's litter and some say that they will research as well, while others say they don't intend on breeding. As far as the stud owner she does know now and says she will research as well. Sasha's sire is fixed but I don't think her dam is, which i have let her know as well. I will be getting Blue Ivy fixed. And hopefully next year sometimes I can try again with a least two healthy good quality yorkies, so that I to can help better the breed and help others to understand the importants of owning and breeding. Because I so want to give it a try, what ever I do in life i was taught and I teach my kids that you give it your 110 % best and if you don't know something you ask and never give up and never let nothing stand in your way of your successes or being successful. I really like coming to this forum because theirs a lot of good information that you can find and very good people the tells you the truth and their opinion on things rather it hurts or not. But not knowing not only hurts you but mainly the precious little animals no matter what shape or form they come in. I hope to receive more knowledge and understanding here and will definitely will come her first if I have a question or concern that needs to be answered.

[gracielove]

I would advise you to study pedigrees and learn a lot about genetics. Go to the shows and study the breeders and what lines they are breeding and who is winning. Get signed up for all the breed and show publications. Not all show/breeders are of the highest caliber. The more you read in the breed publications and the show publications the more you will glean from the info. The more people you meet and talk with the more you will realize what goes on in that world. It takes a while to get to know who is who in the dog world. You have a better chance of getting good stock from an honest winning breeder who is willing to teach you what they know. Run away from someone who is eager to sell you breeding stock first thing without strings or contracts. A person who has put years of careful breeding into their line is going to want to protect that line and are not going to sell good stock (or their name) to someone that has not proven that they are really interested in the highest and the best breeding methods and lines. Even the very best have their set backs but those who have integrity will suffer the loss and continue to do things ethically.

You say you are a stay at home mom and I know that breeding dogs is sometimes an attractive kind of side line to home moms but if you are going to breed good stock you are going to have to show them and that takes, time, travel and money. If you have a husband that supports you in your endeavor it may work. If he doesn't mind you being gone many weekends during the show season and he will take the kids for you while you are gone. You will need to learn how very detailed the grooming process is for a long haired show dog. It is a lot of work all the time. All this is why people advise you to get a mentor. There is so much to learn. Just finding the right person to learn from in a place not too far from you can be a task in it's self.

On the other hand your dog is healthy as your vet says and you could breed her again but it would be very unethical. The dog should be spayed. Even one puppy that may suffer ill effects from the breeding is too many. If you want to be a back yard breeder you will find there are many other kinds of problems you can run up against. Just putting dogs together without knowledge of the genetic background of their ancestors is a very risky thing to do. Putting unknown lines together can bring out all kinds of recessive genes that you had no idea about. There are many people on YT that have lived the nightmare of buying a puppy that had an unknown genetic problem and then had to suffer the consequences. That is why so many want to stop backyard breeding and puppy mills. There are just so many animals and people who have suffered because of people breeding without having the knowledge they need.
I hope you will give the whole matter a large amount of study. If you can find someone in your area that is an ethical show/breeder and will let you help them as you learn then you are one step up. It is a lot of work but anything that is worth doing well always is.

[KendraE]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

Both parents have to be carriers to produce a blue born according to the advice I have read about them on here-thus both must be altered and both lines should be ended.>period.

Please look up KendraE her post show her mistake in breeding and her taking responsibility for a blue born-the advice she received was great-well except for that in which she was told to just put the pup down. She refused and although she realizes it is a possibility in the future in the best interest of providing her Mac a quality life he is doing quite well in her care.

Please alter your girl and love her as a great pet.

Why do you want to breed?

Perhaps you need to cool your rhythm and find someone who may be willing to work with you as a handler/helper for showing since you showed interest there as well.

When I came here I was interested in breeding (blond mini schnauzers, another breed but still) I learned a lot, and have since realized it's not for me, I also avidly defended Schnorkies, a mox of Yorkie and mini schanuzers-I've since realized WHY such breeding is not only hap hazard but cruel to the dogs and quite irresponsible-please stay and learn more.

I hope you aren't detoured by negative responses to you , but in the future learn and understand why you were receiving such responses.

I have spoken with the OP on the phone.... I have told her all my knowledge that I have learned the past year and a half with Mack. She seems to be on the right track. She has contacted the other 4 litter mates parents to be and informed them that the pups need to be spayed/neutered. She has also visited with her vet about spaying Sasha (the mother of these pups). She went further and contacted Sashas breeder.

Sad thing is that the Sire of this litter is not hers. She did contact his owner and he has recently also fathered 2 other litters. I explained to her that ALL these pups now carry the "blue" gene. The sires owner apparently doesnt care so on it goes.

I do believe the OP has learned a very valuable lesson and is trying desperately to help correct the problem she has created. She does now understand why this happened and how SHE can now avoid it.

I am also happy to report that although she was thinking about cross breeding her yorkie with her maltese and poodle (I believe), she is now re-thinking the idea. She now understands our thoughts and concerns with her actions.

Nicole, If you ever need anything or any advice or just a shoulder to cry on concerning Blue Ivy, you can always contact me!! I wish her the world of health and happiness!!!!

[Suncera]

Yes my husband supports me totally and I also have been successfully operating my own tax business for 5 years now, this year I have finally staffed my office without having to do the work myself, I also have invested in all of the equipment that I need and grooming classes for the health, grooming and care for my yorkies. My groomer for the past 3 years have been teaching and coaching me on the techniques, health, etc. in becoming a knowledgable groomer, but I must say its only for my dogs. Very interesting and still learning. My husband has his own trucking company in which his side passion is showing and breeding the american pit bull that some people wrongly mistaken as a bad dog. Our yorkies, poodle, and maltese gets along with them quite well, actually the funniest thing to see is Bandit our two in a half pound yorkie not wanna to play sometimes and when he growls and tells the bullies to back off, they run like a a great dane has gotten after them. Our dogs has the most pleasant temperament, but can't speak for all. But yes he see's that I really have a love and interest in the yorkshire terrier and is willing to support what ever i set my mind to. He also travels with his bullies to different shows and events. My parents and sister also helps us a lot for when we are gone, if the yorkies doesn't go with us, then my mom moves into our house for the weekends to doggy sit and watch the kids even though they are 11 and 15. i am so blessed to have such a loving family. I have a friend/classmate that also shows his cocker spaniels and we have been talking with him and he is willing to introduce us to the show ring, as far as stacking and handling and he also agreed that if i am not that good that he would consider showing and handling my dogs for me, for a small fee, as he say, lol. Me and my husband had to laugh.

[Suncera]

Thank you sooooooo much Kendra for talking with me, I am looking into some insurance for my yorkies more so for Blue Ivy. I want to so bad just hold her but I know she needs to still be in mommies care until she tells me its time to start their weaning. So what ever she may need in the future will be covered. I am so glad Mac is doing well, he is so handsome. I am so glad that I did not give up and not continue searching for help because i wouldn't have found you. I know I still have a lot to learn but I am willing to do what ever it takes to be successful. I am now trying to rehome my Maltese, and will have to get my poodle fixed because my kids just won't part from her, or should I say my husband, when I told him I might be rehoming her, lol, under that truck driver is a pure softy.

[KendraE]

Originally Posted by Suncera

Thank you sooooooo much Kendra for talking with me, I am looking into some insurance for my yorkies more so for Blue Ivy. I want to so bad just hold her but I know she needs to still be in mommies care until she tells me its time to start their weaning. So what ever she may need in the future will be covered. I am so glad Mac is doing well, he is so handsome. I am so glad that I did not give up and not continue searching for help because i wouldn't have found you. I know I still have a lot to learn but I am willing to do what ever it takes to be successful. I am now trying to rehome my Maltese, and will have to get my poodle fixed because my kids just won't part from her, or should I say my husband, when I told him I might be rehoming her, lol, under that truck driver is a pure softy.

you are amazing and are learning such a great deal!! No need to re-home.....just have them spayed and love them eternally!!! Mrs Blue Ivy will not be harmed by your love and affection... Show her you are there and always will be.. A tender hug will do her good (as it did Mack!!). Again, you are in my prayers and I know you will do the right thing!

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by Suncera

Thank you sooooooo much Kendra for talking with me, I am looking into some insurance for my yorkies more so for Blue Ivy. I want to so bad just hold her but I know she needs to still be in mommies care until she tells me its time to start their weaning. So what ever she may need in the future will be covered. I am so glad Mac is doing well, he is so handsome. I am so glad that I did not give up and not continue searching for help because i wouldn't have found you. I know I still have a lot to learn but I am willing to do what ever it takes to be successful. I am now trying to rehome my Maltese, and will have to get my poodle fixed because my kids just won't part from her, or should I say my husband, when I told him I might be rehoming her, lol, under that truck driver is a pure softy.

FYI: Breeders are NOT eligible for pet insurance on their dogs. Uless things have changed, that is what I learned when I wanted to purchase insurance for my dogs.

[Suncera]

Wow, I've just decided to go and look at all of the previous post on this topic and again I say wow, I have to thank you guys for being concerned about people, Byb's, etc. that intentially breed for the wrong reasons, but you targeting the wrong person. First of all I dont have to explain myself to no one and those that know me, and have been to our house, and that have talked to me know that I am not the person that the posts say that I am. I'm still learning and I still come her for valuable information. So for those of you that are watch my web site, you tube, Facebook. I am glad you are keeping me on the right path. And would love for you to friend me on Facebook so that you can get to know that evil person that you think I am---NOT!

[Suncera]

There are three insurance companies that I have spoken with but Blue Ivy has to be 8 weeks before I can put her in any of them. If you guys know of any, all suggestions will be appreciated. I played with her a little while last night, their little licks are so gentle, and I love the little puppy breath as they yarn. My new puppy owners, ask me about insurance as well so I only can give them information that I gather. For those of you that took the time to give me good information and helping me along the way, I thank you soooo much! And again for those of you that have chopped my head off, lol, I thank you as well for double slapping me in the face waking me up before I contribute any further to the cruelty that is continuously going on with this wonderful breed of dog, again I have to ask for forgiveness for the mistakes I've made so far, and I'm paying for them I feel with my Blue Ivy, and for the record I in NO WAY will put my Sasha nor Blue Ivy thru any harm, and I incouriage you guys that are willing to give me advise and their opinions to follow me on Facebook, you tube, twitter, I also have a dog Facebook under puppiesandpaws or pets rule, you are more than welcome to come. Plus I am starting a blog on my Blue Ivy so I am gathering as much of information that I can so that her journey can be followed and I too, can one day educate the pet owners, breeders of the blue born puppy it will be posted on my site as well. Again if anyone that follows me have any concerns are see that I am doing something wrong, for I am not perfect, please call me as you have seen my number is on my website, again thank you Kendra for calling and sharing your experience with me..

[concretegurl]

A bit late in response but let me say this...unless you are in Canada, CKC registration simy means BYB with a poor quality line. AKC is all the counts or matters. Any breeder should always sell all pups pn Limited Registration ONLY! If a full registraion is an option they'd retain the pup for a bit to see how it finishes. Usually until they are around a year old.

Selling pups at the minimum of age of 12 week-absolete minimum-anyways isnt mature enough to determine definate breeding or show potential.

IMHO, however I doubt anyone here really disagrees with that.