Starting with a healthy good quality foundation for breeding!

[KimInMD]

Looks like the OP is still checking in every couple days. I hope she's reading and learning from the wonderful libraries we have. Glad she's still here!

[Suncera]

Yes I am still here and still learning, and I thank all of you for giving and sharing your knowledge of breeding, so that new comers will follow on the right track and make less errors as possible in becoming a breeder. I am learning more and more and now that I have the responsibility of taking care of a blue born I feel I really have my hands full. My Sasha has been breed twice, which her first litter came out fine no health problems. This second time around she had a blue born which I have been gathering, and receiving as much information as possible so that I can care for her. I refuse to have her put down for it is not her fault that she was born that way. I have to say that I am very confused on breeding her again because I do not want anymore blue borns, still researching if it is my Sasha or the stud I used this time or both parents. My vet says that my Sasha is healthy and can breed again and the males owner has told her the same thing, so I don't know. he also says that my blue born puppy is intact and healthy so far and that we will monitor her as we go.

[concretegurl]

Both parents have to be carriers to produce a blue born according to the advice I have read about them on here-thus both must be altered and both lines should be ended.>period.

Please look up KendraE her post show her mistake in breeding and her taking responsibility for a blue born-the advice she received was great-well except for that in which she was told to just put the pup down. She refused and although she realizes it is a possibility in the future in the best interest of providing her Mac a quality life he is doing quite well in her care.

Please alter your girl and love her as a great pet.

Why do you want to breed?

Perhaps you need to cool your rhythm and find someone who may be willing to work with you as a handler/helper for showing since you showed interest there as well.

When I came here I was interested in breeding (blond mini schnauzers, another breed but still) I learned a lot, and have since realized it's not for me, I also avidly defended Schnorkies, a mox of Yorkie and mini schanuzers-I've since realized WHY such breeding is not only hap hazard but cruel to the dogs and quite irresponsible-please stay and learn more.

I hope you aren't detoured by negative responses to you , but in the future learn and understand why you were receiving such responses.

[Suncera]

Yes I am staying and yes I am learning a lot, didn't expect to get my head chopped off, lol but I have to say it is chastising me to look deeper into breeding my dog. I thought breeding designer dogs as they call them was something good, but have read different. I guess people have their different opinions on breeding what they won't to breed, but I rather take advice from those that, number one have been breeding for a very long time and have experienced their trial and errors. I know some of the top breeders have purchased dogs that were not of quality for breeding but that didn't stop them from succeeding to where they are today. I have breed my Shih Tzu before but choose not to breed her anymore so she too has been fixed. I also thought that I would want to breed my miniature Schnauzers that I purchased once they were of age, but realized that I didn't want to breed them as well. All of my past pups have went to good homes and I still keep in touch with them and watch them grow. I still have my yorkies which they are still pups as well. So before I do go into breeding again if I choose to do so. I want to have as much knowledge as I possibly can. I have two mentors that are willing to help me and have been helping me along the way, but with all of the different opinions that I hear and read can really be discouraging. I feel if breeding is for me then the Lord won't guide me wrong and will bring the right people my way. I believe having wisdom is one of the most powerful things to have. I am a stay home mom and house wife and all of my attention goes to my dogs whom are apart of our family, we have and are willing to take on the responsibility that it will require in becoming a breeder, with the understanding that it doesn't happen over night, and like my husband says and filled with political views from every which way.

[chachi]

Im really glad seeing your recent posts that you are doing your research and evaluating your breeding program. Good luck

[Suncera]

Thanks!

[navillusc]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

Both parents have to be carriers to produce a blue born according to the advice I have read about them on here-thus both must be altered and both lines should be ended.>period.
...

It is a recessive gene that causes a "blue born" puppy and for the recessive to present, a gene must be obtained from each parent so that there are two (2) recessive genes...a "carrier" will have 1 dominant and 1 recessive gene and the dominant gene will present. Any carrier can pass the recessive gene on to its offspring just as easily as it can pass the dominant gene on to its offspring.

You said that your "Sasha has been breed twice, which her first litter came out fine..." but the first litter pups may NOT have come out "fine" even without obvious "health problems" since there is an excellent chance that previous pups out of Sasha, and previous pups by the stud that was used for this litter, inherited this gene and could themselves be carriers as well. Additionally, if Sasha's last breeding was also to a carrier, the chances increase that her previous litter had at least 1 carrier pup. Breeding a carrier could always result in a blue born if bred to another carrier.

Now that you can be absolutely certain that Sasha is a carrier, you might want to consider contacting anyone who has a pup from Sasha they intend to breed to let them know their pup might be a carrier so they can make informed decisions about the breeding.

Please note that I am not a breeder...genetics has been a much loved hobby since I was, like, 12...lol

Good luck. I do hope everything goes okay for your little blue born pup.

[concretegurl]

Conflicting opinions are a hard ting to deal with: when it comes to my pets I always consider this, since they can't talk I have to act in their best interest and be their voice myself.

Careful putting all your choices and actions in the guidance of your God, no offense, but I always see a serious red flag when people say this, to me it reads, " well if I do this or that and no lightning bolt hits me, my God can take the responsibility of my actions and choices.

My beliefs put each and every human "at the top of the food chain" for the sole reason that we might have a great responsibility to be caregivers to every living being, and the Earth that allows us to live her, we are not above reproach and when we abuse the privileged of such a responsibility we are "karmic-ally" punished to make balance-perhaps my beliefs lend me to have an alternative perspective of the religion of others.

[concretegurl]

Originally Posted by navillusc

It is a recessive gene that causes a "blue born" puppy and for the recessive to present, a gene must be obtained from each parent so that there are two (2) recessive genes...a "carrier" will have 1 dominant and 1 recessive gene and the dominant gene will present. Any carrier can pass the recessive gene on to its offspring just as easily as it can pass the dominant gene on to its offspring.

I see, and as such then that entire line carries for the blue born, and thus the line should be ended no?

[Suncera]

None of my new puppy owners neither from Sasha's first litter or this recent litter have mentioned to me about breeding their puppy, but yes I have told them and everyone I know the experience that I am going thru. Some are being stubborn and telling me that they are not gonna listen to what people are saying, so all I tell them is for the health of the puppy and litter that they may have, don't pass it on. My Blue Ivy is only 3 weeks old but I search the web everyday to see if I can find more and more information. I will not be breeding Sasha again, and the stud I used it will be up to them what they do. I can only speak for Sasha. Thank you for your research for those of us that don't know I am learning more and more.

[navillusc]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

I see, and as such then that entire line carries for the blue born, and thus the line should be ended no?

Yes. If it cannot be determined genetically by DNA analysis that a pup has 2 dominant genes instead of 1 dominant and 1 recessive, then I wouldn't want to breed that pup due to the possibilities...which would definitely mean that ANY of Sasha's previous pups might be a carrier. I mentioned Sasha's previous stud because if the OP did not know about this stud...who was being used and was a carrier...there is increased likelihood that Sasha's previous stud might have been, also. There is also increased likelihood that the rest of Sasha's pups from this breeding that produced the blue born have at least 1 carrier among them. The kind thing to do is pass the information on to any known to have acquired an unaltered Sasha pup, and especially so if they acquired the unaltered pup with intent to breed.

It's kind of 'math meets statistics' with genetics...lol. To understand better, if you search for "Punnett Square" you can easily see how it happens. I discovered this in 7th grade and used to build huge Punnett Squared to work in church...it kept me still and quiet, and has fascinated me to this day...really got interesting when I began to study dilute calico cat genetics. lol

Basically, it looks like this (without the actual box grid), using "G" as the dominant gene and "g" as the recessive gene...pups 1, 2, 3 and the blue born pup 4 represented in the middle:


Stud (Across) Gg Stud 1 Stud 2
Sasha (Down) Gg
G g
Sasha 1 G GG Gg
g Gg gg

[chachi]

Originally Posted by Suncera

None of my new puppy owners neither from Sasha's first litter or this recent litter have mentioned to me about breeding their puppy, but yes I have told them and everyone I know the experience that I am going thru. Some are being stubborn and telling me that they are not gonna listen to what people are saying, so all I tell them is for the health of the puppy and litter that they may have, don't pass it on. My Blue Ivy is only 3 weeks old but I search the web everyday to see if I can find more and more information. I will not be breeding Sasha again, and the stud I used it will be up to them what they do. I can only speak for Sasha. Thank you for your research for those of us that don't know I am learning more and more.

You really should have limited registration on the pups you sell then they wouldnt be able to breed them and register them and you would have a whole lot less of that going on. It also protects your lines

[Suncera]

it also makes me wonder How far and long has this gene been carried because the lady I bought my Sasha from 3 years ago. Her male is AKC registered and her Female was CKC registered which back then I didn't understand what I understand now about being AKC and CKC, which that is a whole different political topic and view point. I do know from his pedigree that he comes from a nice line of breeders, so this means this gene is still spreading. And with Sasha's Dam, she has a nice pedigree as well. Like i say I can only speak for Sasha but she did have siblings and her mom and dad was breed one more time before getting the male fixed. I still keep up with Sasha's parents owner as well.

[navillusc]

Originally Posted by navillusc

Basically, it looks like this (without the actual box grid), using "G" as the dominant gene and "g" as the recessive gene...pups 1, 2, 3 and the blue born pup 4 represented in the middle:


Stud (Across) Gg
Sasha (Down) Gg

Sorry...the chart I made didn't post worth a whit...lol Trying again

[Suncera]

I have considered that as well if I choose to start back breeding, but can not breed Sasha anymore. But now I have to ask which brings me back to my original post How do I know of if I am getting a good quality breeding b**** and Sire. I mean like I say Sasha's Sire has a good quality line in his pedigree. I mean is this gene carried from decades ago with some still passing it on. The most highest top quality dogs can be still passing it on without knowing. I really won't to understand this!!!!