Where to order vaccines

[lillymae]

[QUOTE=megansmomma;3867817]She has been following me around too. Heme.re's an example that she admitted to me in a PM was her way of making fun of
This is untrue as I received a similar PM from you accusing me of following you as well & neither I or kjc are following you around nor are we making fun of you.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/3862065-post104.html

and what's this???? Taken from another thread too

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/3865965-post18.html[/QUOTE]
And this, is what it is. You said one thing , then you did exactly what You say You are against.

Also if you post in a thread, does this mean that anyone you are not friends with or that you may not like is not allowed to post in a thread that you have posted in ? Because you don't see me accusing you of following me around & you have posted in many threads that I had posted in first.
I do not think it is appropriate to accuse someone of following you around when this is a public forum & we ALL have the rite to post in whatever thread we choose as this is what makes it a Public forum. I truly hope that you are not offended by my post as that is not at all my intent.

[concretegurl]

Originally Posted by Yorkiexpress

My definition of a Parti.....JMO
Just another version of a "Designer Yorkie" Bred for no reason other than to dupe the unsuspecting public into spending ridiculous amounts of money on a Yorkie that they can't even show or register. It is not a color that is recognized under the Yorkie standard. Kind of like in the category of a "Tea cup" or Chocolate Yorkie.

Originally Posted by Yorkiexpress

My definition of a Parti.....JMO
Just another version of a "Designer Yorkie" Bred for no reason other than to dupe the unsuspecting public into spending ridiculous amounts of money on a Yorkie that they can't even show or register. It is not a color that is recognized under the Yorkie standard. Kind of like in the category of a "Tea cup" or Chocolate Yorkie.

Parti are in fact registrable by the AKC.

It is the narrow view of the YTCA that keeps 'Parti's (Yorkies with white) from the ring.

Quite different from the designer dogs (which are hybrid crosses in multi generations) and the idea of a "teacup" which is just a very undersized dog below the defined standard for the breed, undersized dog's pop up like parti's do however the popularity of them has caused detrimental breeding practices to create super down sized dogs as well some methods of stunting the growth in dogs beginning at birth.

I've my own opinions of chocolates and other colors-however they too are all AKC acceptable.

The same is noticeable in saying Biewers are a different breed, they originated from the "parti" Yorkie and are being so inbred you are seeing serious health decline. The very fact that there is no assessable proof of linage in the Biewer dogs showing three already AKC accepted breeds were bred into them i.e. their creation is why they are not accepted in the AKC by their parent club.

Since this is brought up is this why so many YTCA breeders are so readily accepting Biewers now? So they can accept them as a separate breed and not have to accept partis as a Yorkie color variation but have them discounted as a separate breed of dog?

Originally Posted by kjc

AKC has accepted Partis for registration as of last year.

My part is AKC he is 4 his parents were AKC they would be now 7 & 9.

Originally Posted by xxmxaxrxyxx

i believe Parti color yorkies can be registered it is now an option on the AKC registration form for the puppy. they just can't be shown because the parti color is deem as a color fault which would disqualify them in the show ring.

Exactly correct.

[kjc]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

Kjc,

"Quite a few breeders are trained by their vets to perform these procedures. These are minor procedures compared to whelping the pups at home.... Vets offices have many dogs and cats coming in on a daily basis, many of which are sick. To bring unvaccinated puppies into this environment is always a risk, as viruses are airborne and can infect even if the vet's office is clean and immaculate. Even when the puppies are carried in, there is still a risk that the breeder could bring home something infectious on their clothes or shoes. Not only do they save money doing this.... they may also be saving the lives of their puppies.".

Originally Posted by concretegurl

Thanks for your points. I like your informativeness here. I really do appreciate it. I totally get the pups exposure that's why I said I'd hope they'd find a vet who'd come to them to do vacs etc in a proper environment-like a sterilized area.

Thanks for the compliment. I think having a vet come to the house would be the ideal situation, though I can see scheduling problems may be prohibitive in many instances, especially if the vet is a popular/busy one.

Originally Posted by concretegurl

I really get why many breeders would do a lot of 'vet' type care themselves-many breeders are in fact breed experts "out knowledge" many vets about their specific breeds, again it's just my humble opinion, a breed would leave vacs, dew claws and tail docking (ear cropping where and when necessicary) to a vet, I'm sure there are many qualified reputable breeders-unfortunately there are too many unqualified greeders out there with sewing sheers and pliers...once the door is open without regulation it cannot be closed.

This is a major reason it was made illegal throughout most of Europe, at first it was to be done by vets only to control the procedure making it medical and not cruelty-I feel Europeans went a bit overboard. I do personally see the reasoning for tail docking, dew claw removal and ear cropping...sorry getting O.T. here, 'whole 'nother' can of worms'.

Good points. From my experience, breeders who do vaccines at home also have in their possession the drugs necessary to initially treat any bad reactions that may occur, and know that the pup will still require additional treatment from the vet.

Tail docking and dew claw removal can be done safely by a trained/experienced breeder at a specific time during a puppy's development, when the circulatory and nervous systems are still underdeveloped, making it an almost painless procedure with minimal blood loss. Once this period passes, both become amputations and need to be done by a vet.

Ear cropping is done at a latter stage of development, as the cartilage in the ear has to gain a certain rigidity, as the cut is made to enhance the natural appearance of the ear, not to destroy it. The ears have a huge blood supply, and this procedure should never be performed by anyone other than a vet.

Originally Posted by concretegurl

I'd also like to pint out should there be an issue with a vaccine (anyone can buy them and administer) however, I was under the impression should a vaccine cause reaction etc the drug company will not be held liable unless it was administered by a lic. vet-anyone know otherwise-it's from what I've read online before I replied to this thread. .

I don't know if the vaccine manufacturers are ever held 'liable', bc vaccines are optional, although necessary for puppies. Reactions are recorded and reported by vets as a form of quality control, but ultimately it is up to the owner of the dog to approve/decline the administration of any vaccine to their pet.

Originally Posted by concretegurl

Again everything here is just my personal opinion (no reflection on anyone I know or am assumed to know) and of course my opinion is always subject to change based on new information or understanding.

[kjc]

Originally Posted by Yorkiexpress

ok, I see this but what you fail to see is that a health Cert must be signed by and obtained from a Vet. I have flown many miles within the US and Internationally with my Yorkies my last one was from Italy....and have always had to obtain a health Cert from a vet...then once I reach my destination they have me sign in front of them the owner section.

I do know about Health Certificates. As Yorkiemom1's statement was taken out of context, here is her post putting it back in context:

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

Lambert and Revival vet supply....I personally would not buy vaccines from a feed store! You need to have the health records to record your vaccinations....you buy them at the same time you buy your vaccines. I use Pro-Gard 5...10 years, never had a problem, knock on wood....you stick the label from the bottle onto the record....Be advised, a lot of vets will insist the owners of the new puppies re-vaccinate the babies....I always tell my buyers to talk with their vet of choice and see if they will accept the vaccinations I have given....if not, rather than risk OVER VACCINATING the baby, they need to reconsider the vet choice. I always interview my new owners vets also, just to re-inforce that I am an RN who is very well aware of temperature ranges for vaccines, and I know how to give injections. I sign my health certs with my professional signature. In 10 years, I have only had one vet not work with the new owner, and new owner did not listen to my advise. He re-vaccinated the puppy, gave the baby Lepto. injection, the baby had an anaphylactic reaction, died on the way home from the vet....and then the owner wanted me to refund her money!

When the new owner shows the vet the Health Certificate, he/she will see that a Medical Professional had given the vaccines, and out of Professional Curtesy accept that the puppy has been vaccinated correctly, and not choose to over-vaccinate the puppy.

[kjc]

Originally Posted by AluvsE

Hi all, I haven't been on in a long while, but my Coco had her puppies last Monday. I want to do all of the vaccinations myself (I'm an RN, so I know how to administer injections). I have two questions. First, what are some good websites to order from? My second question is which vaccines do you all recommend? I did a search on here for vaccines and needless to say, there was a lot of contradicting information. I would just like to know what most breeders recommend.

Thanks,
Andrea

I am not a breeder, but if I was, I would follow Dr Dodds vaccination protocol, and look into doing vaccines later, beginning at 10 weeks of age. I have purchased vaccines from Drs Foster & Smith before. I no longer do my own vaccines at home.

[impish]

very nice responses, I appreciate this type of discussion.

Originally Posted by kjc

Very good practice...



I think the Rabies vaccine is the only one required by law in the USA.




Rabies is required and can only be given by a vet in the USA because of it's zoonotic properties (infectious to humans). Giving the Rabies vaccine is no different than giving other vaccines, but care must be taken to not inject oneself or get stuck by the needle, and proper disposal/destruction of the needle, syringe, and vaccine container must be done as these also are a route of infection.



There are no 'specialty' singles for small dogs. All vaccines made for dogs are strong enough to vaccinate a dog weighing up to 100 pounds. This is where the problem of 'overvaccinate' originates, and why Dr Dodds recommends only one vaccine per vet visit and one month between vaccines for dogs.



Good breeders work closely with their own vets. My vet has a 'Breeder call List' to inform those who breed of any changes in practices, meds and/or recalls.



Quite a few breeders are trained by their vets to perform these procedures. These are minor procedures compared to whelping the pups at home.... Vets offices have many dogs and cats coming in on a daily basis, many of which are sick. To bring unvaccinated puppies into this environment is always a risk, as viruses are airborne and can infect even if the vet's office is clean and immaculate. Even when the puppies are carried in, there is still a risk that the breeder could bring home something infectious on their clothes or shoes. Not only do they save money doing this.... they may also be saving the lives of their puppies.



IMHO, it is a big lump.

All human medicine and more is tested on Horseshoecrab blood before it ever goes into production.

Horseshoe Crabs - The Useful Horseshoe Crab

The Veterinary Profession is always looking to human medicine/procedures to find ways to better treat our pets.

The Vet ER I worked at 20 years ago had all kinds of equipment donated from local hospitals, from infant incubators for small critical patients, to EKG machines and Pulse Oximeters, Endoscopes, IV supplies and pumps, etc., which now is fairly commonplace (or should be) at many vet practices/clinics.

Stem Cell therapy is becoming an available treatment for our pets also. Funny though as it was first tested on animals before being used in human medicine, and now it's coming back to be utilized in the Vet Med field.

9/11 Search and Rescue Dog Receives Stem Cell Therapy at Va. Clinic

Burke Vet Performs Stem Cell Therapy on Dogs with Hip, Knee Problems - Burke, VA Patch


To 'draw a line' between human and animal medicine would be severely limiting to both fields.

Also, when I worked at the human hospital, I remember hearing countless stories of nurses intervening in patients treatment, usually involved an error in medication or amounts in the charts.... takes a sharp nurse to catch and verify those kinds of errors.

[impish]

Just wanted you to know that I appreciate the input you've imparted to the op and I agree that it's a shame that people go in for the personal attack. You would be surprised at how many people out there get it. Glad you don't know your place.

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

Thank you for stepping into what appears to have taken on a complete blood bath and feeding frenzy against me. I appreciate your points, well made-point by point, as they are, of course, true, but a select few of these people on this site attack, condem, judge, and convict people that have done absolutely NOTHING wrong. Then, to crucify me and my breeding program, and even my site because I sign my name with my RN.....OMG.....I had joined this site years ago, and all the petty bickering and unfounded attacks I witnessed, conducted by members who seem to "travel in packs" and relentlessly attack and try to destroy other members, so appalled me, I chose not to associate with this venue. When we were in high school, some of the "mean girls" had spiral notebooks, called appropriately, "B--ch Books", where they all got together and tore into individuals they detested for WHATEVER reason they could dream up. This is exactly what this forum reminds me of.....these people do not know me, they do not know what kind of nurse I am, they do not know my reputation, they have never bought a puppy of mine, they have never done any business with me, or they would realize they could NEVER justify their attacks against me. They have accused me of everything from overstepping my place as an RN (I have always been a patient advocate and have routinely intervened on my patient's behalf) to practicing vet medicine, to deliberately using my RN as a shameless sales ploy on my website. This is really grabbing at straws in order to tear someone apart, all based on nothing but their conjecture. I hope all the new people out there that are reading these posts, can see this visciousness being spewed by what closely resembles a pack of ravenous wolves, going frantically after blood. They gang up, pile on, and begin to rip and tear apart. Such a shame, because there really are sincere, caring, honest people out here that are educated and knowledgable in a number of different areas, that can offer so much valuable information to people seeking answers and help, with not only their pets, but their medical issues with loved ones too. And all such knowledge and information, is shared NOT with the intent to sell dogs, or blackball vets, or out practice vets, or challenge doctors, or impress anyone by boasting, but simply to answer questions and offer help and solutions. What a shame to attack and try to discredit members just because you dont agree with what they have said. Again, thank you for explaning points that I could never have defended on my own, as these people have become hell bent on criticizing ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING and EVERYTHING I say.

[bjh]

Originally Posted by AluvsE

Hi all, I haven't been on in a long while, but my Coco had her puppies last Monday. I want to do all of the vaccinations myself (I'm an RN, so I know how to administer injections). I have two questions. First, what are some good websites to order from? My second question is which vaccines do you all recommend? I did a search on here for vaccines and needless to say, there was a lot of contradicting information. I would just like to know what most breeders recommend.

Thanks,
Andrea

I have always ordered my vaccinations from Revival. The cost of shipping them is high because they have to be packed in ice and you need one or two day delivery. So unless you need a lot of vaccines you might not be saving anything by ordering them yourself. You might consider asking your vet if he would sell you the vaccine so you can give it yourself. I know some vets will do that.

I prefer to use the Progard Puppy-DPv.

[Dianab28]

I use Drs Foster and Smith and do the 5 in 1 shots since they were the same ones my vet gives. The dosage is the same no matter what the size of the dog, but Lepto is no recommended for Yorkies. They also have some great instructional videos. As far as documentation is concerned you can order health records from them as well and just peal the label from the vaccine.

[gemy]

Now here is an example of a thread I found informative. For me it contained posts that sort of supported my position, but other posts that posited a different point of view, with some rationales behind them.

So it opened my mind to some different "maybes" also by reading this thread I gleaned a little bit of info on how others think, about let's face it a reality that we all face...vaccinations!

[snh]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I'm confused about all this talk about telling your vet what to do? As a pet owner, I told my vet I did not want yearly booster shots, I preferred to get titers. I also told him I didn't want the lepo shot on the advice of my breeder. Since when are giving shots some medical procedure? Diabetics give shots and little training is needed. Certainly an RN is qualified to give a shot and understand the dosage recommendations and need for quality control. All these things are legal as well. The only reason the rabies shot can’t be given by anyone other than a vet is because any time some disease effects the human population, special precautions have to be made to insure it’s done properly. Again, not saying that most breeders should give shots, but this wouldn’t affect my judgment on the breeder’s qualification as a good breeder one way or the other.

I totally agree with this post. I am also a nurse but I took my dog to the vet to have his vaccinations done. If I ever decided to breed, which I'm not, I would totally feel qualified to give my puppies their vaccinations. I told my vet that I didn't want lepto and when I bring my new puppies home, I will do the same. I do the same with my personal care and the care of my family. I'm in the medical field and if I feel that something is wrong with what the MD has ordered, I speak up. I speak up with my patients if I feel the MD has ordered something in error because my license is on the line. Just because the doctor ordered something does not mean that I have to administer it. There would be many dead patients if this were the case. I'm not saying either way is right in regards to a breeder doing their own vaccinations, I'm just saying that a nurse is qualified to administer them. I'm sure she spoke with her vet about which vaccines to administer in the beginning. She's not diagnosing, she's just administering vaccinations.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by snh

I totally agree with this post. I am also a nurse but I took my dog to the vet to have his vaccinations done. If I ever decided to breed, which I'm not, I would totally feel qualified to give my puppies their vaccinations. I told my vet that I didn't want lepto and when I bring my new puppies home, I will do the same. I do the same with my personal care and the care of my family. I'm in the medical field and if I feel that something is wrong with what the MD has ordered, I speak up. I speak up with my patients if I feel the MD has ordered something in error because my license is on the line. Just because the doctor ordered something does not mean that I have to administer it. There would be many dead patients if this were the case. I'm not saying either way is right in regards to a breeder doing their own vaccinations, I'm just saying that a nurse is qualified to administer them. I'm sure she spoke with her vet about which vaccines to administer in the beginning. She's not diagnosing, she's just administering vaccinations.

Exactly, the days are gone when doctors expect to be treated like gods, and never have anyone question them on anything. We have to be proactive in our own health and that of our dogs. I'm sure many a nurse has saved a doctor from disaster.

[snh]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Exactly, the days are gone when doctors expect to be treated like gods, and never have anyone question them on anything. We have to be proactive in our own health and that of our dogs. I'm sure many a nurse has saved a doctor from disaster.

Exactly! It just seems so funny that we as humans are ok with nurses administering our vaccinations but it's not ok for a nurse to administer a vaccine to an animal. Do people not realize that we draw your meds into the syringes (especially in a doctor's office)? This is rarely done by a doctor. Have you ever questioned whether the nurse drew up the correct dose or if the nurse correctly administered the med? I'm sure most people don't even think twice. Those of you who have had your skin children vaccinated, did you question the nurse? We are highly trained to administer drugs!!!

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by snh

Exactly! It just seems so funny that we as humans are ok with nurses administering our vaccinations but it's not ok for a nurse to administer a vaccine to an animal. Do people not realize that we draw your meds into the syringes (especially in a doctor's office)? This is rarely done by a doctor. Have you ever questioned whether the nurse drew up the correct dose or if the nurse correctly administered the med? I'm sure most people don't even think twice. Those of you have have had your skin children vaccinated, did you question the nurse? We are highly trained to administer drugs!!!

Seriously, I don't think I've ever had a shot given by a doctor since I was a little girl, and believe me, he wasn't good at it! I'm not even sure my vet gives the shots, he takes Joey out of the room and a vet tech may do it for all I know.