Breeding non-AKC

[FlDebra]

You could try the USDA as most mills are licensed with the USDA.

[FlDebra]

I'll try this again -- did not mean to post that before I was done but I had to leave the computer for a bit and evidently hit reply....
You could try the USDA as most mills are licensed with the USDA. But I doubt anyone has those particular statistics because most puppymills and BYBs claim to be reputable breeders until they are caught in such blatant violations the law steps in and takes their dogs.

This site says APR is the most used puppymill registry: Why Choose a COE Breeder? I have read some from their site before as I like the way they run the registration -- they register no dogs from pet stores, mills, etc...It is a closed registry. There are a few other dog breed clubs doing this as well but they seem to be the more rare breeds (Pointing Griffin for example). I would love to see the Yorkshire Terrier breed have a closed registry so that we could put some health restrictions on breeding.

I am going mostly on what I see and read. When I was allowing myself to go into pet stores that sold dogs & cats, I was seeing mostly ACA, APR and CKC here. Most of the YT members that have problems and find their dogs came from a mill, seem to say they are registered with non-AKC registries. Since the whole history of the other registries tells me the puppymills were their main founders -- stands to reason, most of them will be non-AKC. Although a great many operate with dual-registeries so that they can claim to be an AKC kennel, but they have the back up registery in case they get caught when DNA shows the wrong parents are listed on papers, or AKC inspections wind up banning them.

The AKC is also the only non-profit registery. (according to wikipedia). In 2006 they actually entered into a contract with Petland (supplied by the Hunte corporation -- biggest pet store supplier of puppies) but they bowed to the the instant disapproval of dog enthusiasts and rescinded that contract. So -- like I said, they are not perfect but since they are non-profit, they are more likely to bow out of the puppymill business than the other registries. Unfortunately, I am sure there are still plenty of mills using AKC dams & sires. But I think most of the worst offenders are being weeded out. They know that too -- that is why the border-line mills are using the double-registry trick to protect their backsides.

AKC is the biggest registry, so they still have a lot of AKC dogs in mills. I think the more notable numbers to look for would be the percentage of the registry that ARE puppymill and BYB dogs. We won't ever see those numbers in writing as most BYB claim they are not and even most puppymills like to try to pretend to be reputable breeders. So, it is something you have to gleen from talking with other pet owners and reading what is available -- mostly educated guesses. Maybe I should not have said most puppymill dogs are registered with one of the non-AKC registries but that most puppymills utilize a non-AKC registry. They may also have some AKC dogs -- but more than likely even those will have dual registration.

There are so many logical ways to see that AKC registration is preferable. For instance -- the offshoot registries will register any AKC registered dogs but the AKC will NOT register dogs from the other registries.

AKC has requirements for DNA testing when a dog is used a number of times in breeding -- the other registries have no such requirement.

AKC does not register dogs with photos, affadavits, or 2 vet letters -- they require AKC lineage. With other registries, it can be easy to get a mixed breed into their books as a purebred.

I have seen some beautiful dogs from non-AKC registries. But sometimes I wonder if those are the result of someone selling a dog with limited registration, and then the owner just circumvented the system and turned around and sent in for the non-AKC registration so they could breed even though the original seller had specifically NOT wanted that to happen. Some of those limited registration dogs may be carriers of genetic problems, faults, or the owner just did not want any Tom/Dick/Harry breeding their line. So that is one more reason against the non-AKC registries. I could probably keep typing reasons all night, but I am getting tired and need to get off here.

[add1egg]

Many years ago I got my first Yorkie and met this elderly woman who had alittle AKC fella and a few females. She also had acouple poodles and boston terriers. I was ignorant of any ethical standards and thought everyone was honest with their dogs. She took me under her wing and taught me alot about breeding, whelping and the breed...but then again I knew NOTHING to start. Anyway after a time my girl came into her second heat and I bred with her male which produced 4 boys. I was terrified when I saw the color and thought my baby had somehow made contact with a Doberman! Ruth helped me out and sent in for the litter registration and had it mailed to her house- she said because she had the stud.(?) When they came back I found out she had register 7 pups and had papers for them. When I questioned her about it she told me sometimes she comes across dogs who have no papers that are true yorkies and this way she can register them. Being young and naive I never reported it...but I never bred with her dog again. That was 25 yrs ago and things have changed, thank God but I'm sure there are still unreputable breeders out there, AKC and otherwise. Unless you know your yorkie people well, you really dont know.

[bjh]

Originally Posted by add1egg

Many years ago I got my first Yorkie and met this elderly woman who had alittle AKC fella and a few females. She also had acouple poodles and boston terriers. I was ignorant of any ethical standards and thought everyone was honest with their dogs. She took me under her wing and taught me alot about breeding, whelping and the breed...but then again I knew NOTHING to start. Anyway after a time my girl came into her second heat and I bred with her male which produced 4 boys. I was terrified when I saw the color and thought my baby had somehow made contact with a Doberman! Ruth helped me out and sent in for the litter registration and had it mailed to her house- she said because she had the stud.(?) When they came back I found out she had register 7 pups and had papers for them. When I questioned her about it she told me sometimes she comes across dogs who have no papers that are true yorkies and this way she can register them. Being young and naive I never reported it...but I never bred with her dog again. That was 25 yrs ago and things have changed, thank God but I'm sure there are still unreputable breeders out there, AKC and otherwise. Unless you know your yorkie people well, you really dont know.

Years ago I had heard of breeders doing that same thing. I imagine that is one reason AKC starting requiring the DNA testing. There will always be cheaters that just try to beat the system. I think many unreputable breeders use registries other than AKC so they can deceive people.

[DeeWolfe]

I have not seen United Kennel Club discussed (forgive me if I missed it). The UKC is almost as old as AKC. I used to consider them as a registry for hunting and sporting dogs but, if you go to a show, you will see all breeds.
I know of quite a few AKC judges that register their dogs, show and judge in the UKC. In fact, 2 of those judges are Yorkshire Terrier breeders. One of them judged the sweeps at the Specialty a few years ago.

I enjoy UKC shows. I love to see my Yorkies doing Go To Ground (the job they were bred to do) and terrier racing.

It is important to do your homework. There are good and bad breeders in all registries.

[gemy]

I have attended a few UKC shows. I saw some nice dogs there, and the environment at the shows I was at, was quite a bit more relaxed than AKC or CKC. I have a few breeder/friends that do show in UKC, but in the working breed.

My concern, which of course is only applicable to the minority of would be exhibitors is that UKC does not allow Professional Handlers, and for various physcial reasons, I can no longer show my own working breed.

I was at one show to do a Dock Diving event with my blackie, we had great fun there. I am considering training in the weight pull. but in Canada we do not have many UKC events, so overnight travel is necessary most often to attend UKC shows. I went to one in Kalamazoo Michigan.

[LilPuppyLove]

isnt it true though that AKC is registering dogs from CKC, ect now? I remember seeing a thread about it. Let me see if I can find it...

[DeeWolfe]

Originally Posted by gemy

I have attended a few UKC shows. I saw some nice dogs there, and the environment at the shows I was at, was quite a bit more relaxed than AKC or CKC. I have a few breeder/friends that do show in UKC, but in the working breed.

My concern, which of course is only applicable to the minority of would be exhibitors is that UKC does not allow Professional Handlers, and for various physcial reasons, I can no longer show my own working breed.

I was at one show to do a Dock Diving event with my blackie, we had great fun there. I am considering training in the weight pull. but in Canada we do not have many UKC events, so overnight travel is necessary most often to attend UKC shows. I went to one in Kalamazoo Michigan.

That is no problem at a UKC show - grab a Junior. They love to show and are usually at ringside waiting for someone to hand them a dog. Go to the entry desk and ask someone.

I show my dogs in the AKC but I have found that the UKC is a great place to learn how to show and to train dogs. Weight pull is great for conditioning show dogs. I am always amazed when I see a dog pulling 9,000 lbs. The dogs seem to be having such a great time. I love to watch my dogs, in full coat, running through the tunnel doing GTG or racing.

There are some really nice people in the Michigan area that show Yorkies in the UKC and AKC. I will be glad to put you in touch with them.

[LilPuppyLove]

haha! I found it!

For a dog with papers from a non-AKC accepted domestic registry
AKC has a new program where we are researching pedigrees of dogs that do not have AKC paperwork to determine if the dog comes from AKC registrable stock.
In order to determine AKC registration eligibility, you will need to send AKC a copy of your dog’s pedigree, registration application and/or registration certificate from another registry. You can also submit documentation provided by the breeder such as a contract or bill of sale. The dog may qualify for registration if the pedigree shows no break in AKC lineage and the dogs in the pedigree originate from AKC registrable stock.
Should the dog be deemed registrable, AKC staff will register the dog in question for $30. All late fees will be waived.
When you submit your paperwork, please include your name and phone number. You can submit the paperwork in one of three ways:[LIST=1][*]Fax the information to 919-816-3770. Mark it attn: Registry Research.[*]Email images to altreg@akc.org. Place Registry Research in the subject line[*]Mail to:

AKC Registry Research
Attn: Special Services
8051 Arco Corporate Drive Suite 100
Raleigh, NC 27617

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by LilPuppyLove

For a dog with papers from a non-AKC accepted domestic registry
AKC has a new program where we are researching pedigrees of dogs that do not have AKC paperwork to determine if the dog comes from AKC registrable stock.

See the bolded print. This is for dogs that have AKC lineage, but that weren't registered with AKC by the breeders for whatever reason. You have to have their AKC pedigree and I *think* the breeder has to approve it to. (Not sure about that second part.)
But it is NOT valid for dogs registered with other registries that do not have a history of an AKC lineage.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by DeeWolfe

That is no problem at a UKC show - grab a Junior. They love to show and are usually at ringside waiting for someone to hand them a dog. Go to the entry desk and ask someone.

I show my dogs in the AKC but I have found that the UKC is a great place to learn how to show and to train dogs. Weight pull is great for conditioning show dogs. I am always amazed when I see a dog pulling 9,000 lbs. The dogs seem to be having such a great time. I love to watch my dogs, in full coat, running through the tunnel doing GTG or racing.

There are some really nice people in the Michigan area that show Yorkies in the UKC and AKC. I will be glad to put you in touch with them.

Thank you so much. But if I can't show my dogs, and their rule is owners must show their dogs, and yes I know you can get a 'volunteer" to show your dog on this or that day, but that is a different thing, for an owner that knows that 90% of the time they would not be able to show their dog, it seems like to me dishonest to rely on volunteers to show their dog for them. It is a hole if you will in the UKC rules.

BTW I'm not putting my Yorkies in weight pull but my BRT;s. For my Yorkie I could probably on my worst day muddle through in the ring.

I still am able to compete in obedience, and sometimes agility. I take it day by day with my condition.

[LilPuppyLove]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

See the bolded print. This is for dogs that have AKC lineage, but that weren't registered with AKC by the breeders for whatever reason. You have to have their AKC pedigree and I *think* the breeder has to approve it to. (Not sure about that second part.)
But it is NOT valid for dogs registered with other registries that do not have a history of an AKC lineage.

Oh... See! This is why I love YT! There is a lady here in Utah that sells her pups CKC but says for an extra fee, she will tell you the "secret way" of getting them registered AKC.... Man, some people will always try to scam people for a buck wont they??? Sheesh... I sent an email to AKC about this lady, but I doubt it will do much.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by LilPuppyLove

There is a lady here in Utah that sells her pups CKC but says for an extra fee, she will tell you the "secret way" of getting them registered AKC

She sounds like a real winner! NOT! Yeah, I definitely wouldn't be giving her the time of day!

[LilPuppyLove]

nope, I even posted an Ad on the site she was advertising on recommending anyone thinking about buying a puppy, come here first... hehehehe, I am apparently feeling impish today!

[Raymond's Mom]

Originally Posted by ChocoMilk

Thank you for your replies. That must be hard work keeping them separated under one roof every time females are in heat!

DvlishAngel985: So you are saying that, although ACA or APRI or non-registered dogs may seem to meet the standards of a quality yorkie, because its lineage cannot be traced there may be complications? What if a CKC breeder had been breeding their CKC puppies for years, and they never had any health complications? Does that still make him a bad breeder because he is not breeding AKC dogs?

wv~ yorkies: I don't intend on breeding. I was just curious on why everyone stressed AKC dogs for breeding only after reading the forums, and why breeders were unhappy or seemed annoyed with those who wanted to breed their dogs for their own household (not selling for profit, will keep for themselves, will neuter/spay the puppies) just because they liked their dogs look and had no health issues.

Thank you for your replies! I'm definitely learning a lot from this forum.

You are asking excellent questions. AKC decided to put the pressure on puppy mills and backyard breeders to clean up conditions, keep better records and DNA frequently used sires. AKC Inspectors, when inspecting kennels look for what they call "Care and Conditions". If those standards are not met action is taken against the breeder and or kennel. That action is in the form of fines, suspension or intervention by local authorities.

Alternative registries appeared when this policy was instituted. These registries have no requirements that breeders must meet. And registering with them is basically it's an extremely bad reference for the breeder. Why have these breeders left AKC? They keep dogs in very bad conditions. They don't want to keep records or positively identify dogs and puppies. They breed mutts and want to register them so the unsuspecting buyers think they're something more than what they are, mixed breed puppies. And they don't want to pay the registration fees.

Just a few more things to think about