Breeding non-AKC

[ChocoMilk]

I've been reading a lot of posts on here educating myself but I didn't see these questions asked. Hopefully someone can help!

Why do people only stress breeding AKC yorkies only? I understand that more AKC dogs are the "breeding quality" than the rest, but for dogs registered into different registries or no registries at all, wouldn't they also have breeding quality yorkies as well? As much as one cannot state that every AKC yorkie is a show quality dog, one cannot reject a non-registered dog for breeding when it may be a quality, healthy dog that can also help improve the breed. so I am also confused on why AKC does not allow a dog to register as AKC if it meets the AKC standards of that certain breed unless the parents are both AKC's. Or is it that a healthy, quality yorkie cannot ever be born under pet quality yorkies?

Also, I've read here that studs become less pet quality after breeding. Is there any change with females?

In breeders' houses with many unneutered nor spayed yorkies, how do the breeders keep the females from becoming pregnant? do they have to constantly watch for the females heat in session and keep the male yorkies physically away?

Thank you!

[DvlshAngel985]

I'm no breeder, but I think I can answer at least one of your questions.
The AKC alone does not stand for quality, as you've already stated. However, they are the only registry that keeps accurate records of purebred dogs. Registries like the CKC (continental not canadian) will register anything with 4 legs as whatever breed you want it to be. Even if a dog looks like a yorkie, it may not be purebred. If it's mixed with say, maltese, a dog can still look 100% yorkie.

For ex., my bf's family have 2 morkies (yorkie maltese mixes) and one of them looks like a "silky" coated black and tan yorkie. He's adorable with his long hair, erect ears, and pretty convincing colors. I could register him with CKC, or APRI as a purebred yorkie without any issues. Then I could stud him out as a papered "purebred." One of his offspring may turn out to look nothing like a yorkie, it may even be all white. See where it gets messy?

While the AKC is not perfect, it keeps better records. As far as confirmation, I would trust the YTCA. They are the ones that set the standard for the Yorkshire Terrier. As far as health goes, that responsibility falls on a breeders shoulders. If they are ethical responsible breeders, they will learn all that there is to know about that breed of dogs, yorkies in this case, learn about genetics and how to breed for the betterment of the breed. They will know what medical tests would help them breed quality yorkies. Their ethics and integrity are on the line with each and every litter. It really isn't that easy to be a breeder, in my honest opinion.

[capt_noonie]

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985

I'm no breeder, but I think I can answer at least one of your questions.
The AKC alone does not stand for quality, as you've already stated. However, they are the only registry that keeps accurate records of purebred dogs. Registries like the CKC (continental not canadian) will register anything with 4 legs as whatever breed you want it to be. Even if a dog looks like a yorkie, it may not be purebred. If it's mixed with say, maltese, a dog can still look 100% yorkie.

For ex., my bf's family have 2 morkies (yorkie maltese mixes) and one of them looks like a "silky" coated black and tan yorkie. He's adorable with his long hair, erect ears, and pretty convincing colors. I could register him with CKC, or APRI as a purebred yorkie without any issues. Then I could stud him out as a papered "purebred." One of his offspring may turn out to look nothing like a yorkie, it may even be all white. See where it gets messy?

While the AKC is not perfect, it keeps better records. As far as confirmation, I would trust the YTCA. They are the ones that set the standard for the Yorkshire Terrier. As far as health goes, that responsibility falls on a breeders shoulders. If they are ethical responsible breeders, they will learn all that there is to know about that breed of dogs, yorkies in this case, learn about genetics and how to breed for the betterment of the breed. They will know what medical tests would help them breed quality yorkies. Their ethics and integrity are on the line with each and every litter. It really isn't that easy to be a breeder, in my honest opinion.

And don't forget ACA either. They don't even require a photo of the dog, just your word and check made out in their name. how do i know? I did it as an uneducated dog owner. *in hindsight, hanging head in shame*

[gemy]

Originally Posted by ChocoMilk

I've been reading a lot of posts on here educating myself but I didn't see these questions asked. Hopefully someone can help!

Why do people only stress breeding AKC yorkies only? I understand that more AKC dogs are the "breeding quality" than the rest, but for dogs registered into different registries or no registries at all, wouldn't they also have breeding quality yorkies as well? As much as one cannot state that every AKC yorkie is a show quality dog, one cannot reject a non-registered dog for breeding when it may be a quality, healthy dog that can also help improve the breed. so I am also confused on why AKC does not allow a dog to register as AKC if it meets the AKC standards of that certain breed unless the parents are both AKC's. Or is it that a healthy, quality yorkie cannot ever be born under pet quality yorkies?

Also, I've read here that studs become less pet quality after breeding. Is there any change with females?

In breeders' houses with many unneutered nor spayed yorkies, how do the breeders keep the females from becoming pregnant? do they have to constantly watch for the females heat in session and keep the male yorkies physically away?

Thank you!

Succinctly yes. Breeders will always be watching for their un neutered females to go in heat, they track their heats as well, so they do know after the first few heats when that female is expected to come into heat. Some males can forecast upto a month early when a female will come into heat. Un neutered males are kept physically apart 100% of the time from any female in heat. Use of crates, separate levels in a home or rooms, facilitate this. They are fed and exercised separately etc.

[WV~Yorkies]

Are you planning on breeding or just wondering?

[ChocoMilk]

Thank you for your replies. That must be hard work keeping them separated under one roof every time females are in heat!

DvlishAngel985: So you are saying that, although ACA or APRI or non-registered dogs may seem to meet the standards of a quality yorkie, because its lineage cannot be traced there may be complications? What if a CKC breeder had been breeding their CKC puppies for years, and they never had any health complications? Does that still make him a bad breeder because he is not breeding AKC dogs?

wv~ yorkies: I don't intend on breeding. I was just curious on why everyone stressed AKC dogs for breeding only after reading the forums, and why breeders were unhappy or seemed annoyed with those who wanted to breed their dogs for their own household (not selling for profit, will keep for themselves, will neuter/spay the puppies) just because they liked their dogs look and had no health issues.

Thank you for your replies! I'm definitely learning a lot from this forum.

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by ChocoMilk

Thank you for your replies. That must be hard work keeping them separated under one roof every time females are in heat!

DvlishAngel985: So you are saying that, although ACA or APRI or non-registered dogs may seem to meet the standards of a quality yorkie, because its lineage cannot be traced there may be complications? What if a CKC breeder had been breeding their CKC puppies for years, and they never had any health complications? Does that still make him a bad breeder because he is not breeding AKC dogs?

That's not what I'm saying at all. I mentioned coat color as an example, I never mentioned health. And yes you're right, it's true that their could be health problems if that's what is hidden in the breeding pair's DNA. All I was trying to say was that when a person breeds an unregistered, ACA, CKC (non-canadian), or APRI dogs, they truly do not have a clue what they are breeding, even if the breeding pair is healthy. Down the line of what they think are purebreds, there will be some random gene expression that they weren't expecting. For example, if a non-educated breeder takes any breeding pair that look like yorkies, and continue to do so with the same pair or even off springs, down the line there might be a dog that looks like a poodle instead of a yorkie. Why? Because that was part of one of the parents genetic makeup. Next thing you know, you'll have pups with "hello kitty" faces, bug eyes, wrong markings, etc, etc, etc.


The label bad breeding is what a person earns on his/her own. It has nothing to do with the type of dog they have. However, if anyone is serious about breeding, is it really that hard to just start searching for a mentor? To start picking up books on the breed and absorbing the information? Is it hard to want to do the very best you can to assure that the bitch, stud, and puppies will all be healthy? Just asking.

[BamaFan121s]

I agree with you to an extent. I don't think that you can automatically label a dog as being a 'lesser quality' simply because of the registry. Nor do I think the registry alone determines if a dog is of a quality that should be bred.

I can, however, understand the AKC's reasons for not accepting dogs registered with these other organizations. Are all breeders of other registries dishonest? No, but many are. If the AKC registered them, they would be putting their name on the line by assuming the responsibility for guaranteeing the line of those dogs.

As for behavioral changes in breeding females, I assume it varies from dog to dog, but I have found sometimes females tend to be a bit more protective and territorial after having been bred. I have one who became less 'friendly' and tolerant of other dogs afterwards.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by ChocoMilk

Thank you for your replies. That must be hard work keeping them separated under one roof every time females are in heat!

DvlishAngel985: So you are saying that, although ACA or APRI or non-registered dogs may seem to meet the standards of a quality yorkie, because its lineage cannot be traced there may be complications? What if a CKC breeder had been breeding their CKC puppies for years, and they never had any health complications? Does that still make him a bad breeder because he is not breeding AKC dogs?

wv~ yorkies: I don't intend on breeding. I was just curious on why everyone stressed AKC dogs for breeding only after reading the forums, and why breeders were unhappy or seemed annoyed with those who wanted to breed their dogs for their own household (not selling for profit, will keep for themselves, will neuter/spay the puppies) just because they liked their dogs look and had no health issues.

Thank you for your replies! I'm definitely learning a lot from this forum.

Yes it is work, but the alternative is really really not wanted by a reputable breeder. that being your bitch being accidentally bred. Breeders study pedigrees and plan their breeding carefully. Plus an unsupervised breeding can be dangerous to the bitch or the stud.

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985

That's not what I'm saying at all. I mentioned coat color as an example, I never mentioned health. And yes you're right, it's true that their could be health problems if that's what is hidden in the breeding pair's DNA. All I was trying to say was that when a person breeds an unregistered, ACA, CKC (non-canadian), or APRI dogs, they truly do not have a clue what they are breeding, even if the breeding pair is healthy. Down the line of what they think are purebreds, there will be some random gene expression that they weren't expecting. For example, if a non-educated breeder takes any breeding pair that look like yorkies, and continue to do so with the same pair or even off springs, down the line there might be a dog that looks like a poodle instead of a yorkie. Why? Because that was part of one of the parents genetic makeup. Next thing you know, you'll have pups with "hello kitty" faces, bug eyes, wrong markings, etc, etc, etc.


The label bad breeding is what a person earns on his/her own. It has nothing to do with the type of dog they have. However, if anyone is serious about breeding, is it really that hard to just start searching for a mentor? To start picking up books on the breed and absorbing the information? Is it hard to want to do the very best you can to assure that the bitch, stud, and puppies will all be healthy? Just asking.

Not "bad breeding", bad breeder. I need to proof read. A bad breeder is a bad breeder because of what he she does, not because of his or her dogs or the registry they choose.

[FlDebra]

Another reason NOT to breed from those other registeries is thta by doing so and continuing to send them registration money for litters and puppies, you are contributing to the very organizations started by puppymills and ousted AKC breeders who were either unwilling to comply with record keeping requirements or were ousted for bad breeding practices. These miscontents and banned breeders set up their own registeries so they could still call their dogs/puppies registered -- that was the only reason -- not to keep detailed records of breeding history, not to help in refining and improving breeds, not to help educate the public on dog care, breeding, and health -- but just to put $$$ in their filthy pockets. I would NEVER send a dime to those registeries!

I have a wonderful little male who is and always has been my pet first but who has also sired two amazing litters. He has not lost any of his affectionate, sweet ways. Ben is my loving baby boy even if he is daddy to 9 pups! We did have a time of him marking for a while after the second litter. Last puppy that we had was a male. I thought we might even keep him for a while, but the two did not get along and tried to out mark each other. I finally placed him as I had with the other pups and Ben no longer marks in the house. whew!

Yes about keeping males & femals part when the girl is in heat. You do have to physically keep them apart. The males are so relentless during the week of most fertility that NOTHING will stop them put physically separating them. I saw that same sweet little Ben turn into a sex-crazed maniac during the potent week -- I could never leave the house unless someone else was there to guard. I was afraid he would try to break through a door. When I was home with them, I put a doggy diaper on my girl and then covered her with a newborn onesie -- but even that was not good enough during the "week." I had to keep her out of Ben's site. Even so, he would pant and act half-crazy. Not pleasant! Even when you are breeding that cycle, you have to do this for most of the time as you do not want them breeding indescriminately, only when you decide and are there to watch over. They can hurt each other and if they do it too many times, the male will deplete his sperm count and if he happens to hit the most fertile days with a low count, it is not as good of a mating. So, you want to time and guard their encounters.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

Another reason NOT to breed from those other registeries is thta by doing so and continuing to send them registration money for litters and puppies, you are contributing to the very organizations started by puppymills and ousted AKC breeders who were either unwilling to comply with record keeping requirements or were ousted for bad breeding practices. These miscontents and banned breeders set up their own registeries so they could still call their dogs/puppies registered -- that was the only reason -- not to keep detailed records of breeding history, not to help in refining and improving breeds, not to help educate the public on dog care, breeding, and health -- but just to put $$$ in their filthy pockets. I would NEVER send a dime to those registeries!

I can't verify the true reasons for "why" these alternate registries were founded and I can't testify to the inner workings of every one of them, but to imply that none of them contribute positively to the dog world is completely untrue. Many of these alternate registries host various events and seminars too. That's definitely a positive attribute. Having attended quite a few of them myself over the years, it was my observation that they most certainly promoted the ethics, both in regards to breeding and responsible pet ownership that most of us preach about on here all the time.

[YorkieRose]

I never allowed my males and females together...they had separate play yards and separate indoor spaces...learned the hard way many years ago when I had two accidental breedings...neither bitch showed any physical signs of heat...no bleeding or swelling..still have no clue how the males bred with them.

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

I can't verify the true reasons for "why" these alternate registries were founded and I can't testify to the inner workings of every one of them, but to imply that none of them contribute positively to the dog world is completely untrue. Many of these alternate registries host various events and seminars too. That's definitely a positive attribute. Having attended quite a few of them myself over the years, it was my observation that they most certainly promoted the ethics, both in regards to breeding and responsible pet ownership that most of us preach about on here all the time.

They may well have some education at shows now but my comments were as to why they were started -- note: "These miscontents and banned breeders set up their own registeries so they could still call their dogs/puppies registered -- that was the only reason -- not to keep detailed records of breeding history, not to help in refining and improving breeds, not to help educate the public on dog care, breeding, and health -- but just to put $$$ in their filthy pockets. " everything I listed was what they were not setting up their own registeries for initially.

I don't doubt some good people have tried to make them more effective over the years but I cannot put aside why they were started in the first place, are still run by many of those same people, the fact that they service such a HUGE portion of the puppymills (and yes I know some mills sell AKC but you will find most are non-AKC), and that they continue to allow registration of mixed breed and dogs with questionable histories. Their practices of registering so easily still PROMOTES unethical breeding in my opinion. Don't keep records, your girl gets impregnated from unknown dogs? No problem they have a way to get "papers."

No way is AKC perfect, but I think it is the absolute best choice available.

I know there are good folks who unfortunately are in these other registeries. I would not have one word against those breeders, if they are doing everything else right. I still cannot in any way justify supporting the registeries themselves.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

(and yes I know some mills sell AKC but you will find most are non-AKC)

It wouldn't shock me...where exactly can I find those statistics?