Breed Standard -- K.C. vs YTCA

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by gemy

It certainly can be a controversial idea. That is why for toy breeds and or companion breeds I suggested something like TT, or Canine Good Neighbour. If we look at dog breeds to evidence a "fitness to function", for our dear Yorkie, well I guess not many are using yorkies as ratters these days. I think they have evolved to be more companion dogs. And as companion dogs, their temperament should align with that function.

Perhaps for toy and or companion breeds, it will be a long time in coming, where the US and Canada align more with some of what the European countries are doing already today. But in my opinion the conformation ring, is a poor milieu to prove "fitness to function", other than the dog can move around the ring. And the brief physical examination.

I as a passionate lover of Yorkies, I want to keep a great temperament, health, and fitness in this breed. I want to be able to do my part as little as it may be to hand down to the next generation, a beautifull toy dog, that is capable of so much.

The issue of awarding conformation titles not soley on conformation rings, is a pretty big one.

It would affect every breed. I doubt I will be alive to see it.

But for my breed that is a working breed, I would support this idea. Working ability is inherited, along with many other things. If we only breed dogs that never earn any working titles, then over time, we erode their working ability as a breed. Unfortunately it is already starting to happen here in N.A. after only 15-20 yrs of breeding.

Many other working breed, herding, non-sport, etc, already are speaking louding about those concerns.

I would support it for a working or herding breed because they are still functional in that aspect....however, in most toy breeds you don't have them doing that sort of stuff. Yorkies aren't ratters any more. Most toys are just that companion dogs. But I still believe in a good structured dog and totally support that. They need to be fit and healthy. Of course my guys are lazy couch potatoes like their momma LOL...but they are of a healthy weight and they do run outside, run in and out the doggy door.

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

I would support it for a working or herding breed because they are still functional in that aspect....however, in most toy breeds you don't have them doing that sort of stuff. Yorkies aren't ratters any more. Most toys are just that companion dogs. But I still believe in a good structured dog and totally support that. They need to be fit and healthy. Of course my guys are lazy couch potatoes like their momma LOL...but they are of a healthy weight and they do run outside, run in and out the doggy door.

I beg your pardon but my yorkies are still ratters, long hair and all. They love to go to the barn and hunt vermin. Why would you breed that out of them? Its the terrier in them. That is what we all most love about the terrier, not to be another lapdog. If they are a lapdog they are not terriers anymore.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

I beg your pardon but my yorkies are still ratters, long hair and all. They love to go to the barn and hunt vermin. Why would you breed that out of them? Its the terrier in them. That is what we all most love about the terrier, not to be another lapdog.

I don't have a barn so I don't have rats and my yorkies I beg your pardon they are all terrier as well just ask the big dogs that walk by my grooming table at shows and the pitbull next door...but they are my lap dogs as well...right now I have 4 all sleeping in my lap. Just let a big dog step on my property...if I didn't have them behind a gate they'd go after them but they are a companion dog and YES my lap dogs and I love it that way!!

[Breezeaway]

But you said"Yorkies aren't ratters any more" That is not true. They are ratters if given the chance. Sorry you don't have a barn for your dogs to play in, its a shame they are cooped up in a house all day.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

But you said"Yorkies aren't ratters any more" That is not true. They are ratters if given the chance. Sorry you don't have a barn for your dogs to play in, its a shame they are cooped up in a house all day.

If you would have read my other post you'd see that they go in and out a doggy door and run outside i'm sorry I just don't let my dogs go outside unless I'm home and I do work and my husband does come home every day for lunch to let them outside so no honey they aren't cooped up in the house all day.
Even if I had a barn they would only be in the barn playing in the hay long hair and all or with each other not chasing rats YUCK...

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

If you would have read my other post you'd see that they go in and out a doggy door and run outside i'm sorry I just don't let my dogs go outside unless I'm home and I do work and my husband does come home every day for lunch to let them outside so no honey they aren't cooped up in the house all day.
Even if I had a barn they would only be in the barn playing in the hay long hair and all or with each other not chasing rats YUCK...

Exactly I rest my case, the YTCA promotes a lapdog instead of the Terrier it was suppose to be. In and out a doggie door only when the owner is there from 5 to 9 pm other wise you stay in. Some life huh...
I truly feel sorry for the yorkies in these situations not being able to enjoy life and the instinct they have.
Keeping them in wrappers in cages so you can show them off. It is truly sad what you do to your yorkies.

[Woogie Man]

I think Gail has a point about the 'fit to function' quoted from the KC standard. While the Yorkshire is a toy dog, it is a toy Terrier and should be able to perform as one. I'm not sure i would agree that its ability to perform that function should be a requirement for a championship, but it should be capable of it in its physical makeup.

And that brings me back to the difference in the standards. Do any of these differences take away from the Yorkshire's 'fit for function'? I think that shortening the back will make a dog less agile. And how about the differences in bite? Is a scissor bite better for holding prey than a level bite? These differences, and the lack of the YTCA addressing features such as neck, layback, temperament and gait could lead to a dog that is more elegant but less terrier.

[Breezeaway]

The one thing I can say about my dogs whether they are traditional colored or parti colored is that my dogs have a life. They are happy and healthy Terriers that all love to hunt and do the terrier thing. They are not in kennels or wraps for the show world. Not one of my dogs is scared or afraid to hunt mice or rats. They are all Terrier. How many of you show people can say your dogs are that brave? Or how many have ever seen a mouse?
The Yorkie was bred for it and when you take that away, you NO LONGER HAVE A TERRIER

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

Exactly I rest my case, the YTCA promotes a lapdog instead of the Terrier it was suppose to be. In and out a doggie door only when the owner is there from 5 to 9 pm other wise you stay in. Some life huh...
I truly feel sorry for the yorkies in these situations not being able to enjoy life and the instinct they have.
Keeping them in wrappers in cages so you can show them off. It is truly sad what you do to your yorkies.

ROFLMFAO....you really don't get it do you! You really made me spit my tea out on that one ROFL!!! I don't live off breeding my dogs so I have to work to pay for a roof over "THEIR" heads, food in their bowls ect...And as far as cages...only when I'm not here to supervise. That's called protection. God forbid something happen to them while not being supervised. I'm glad you don't have to work outside the home but I do and I don't leave my dogs running free unsupervised.
Only one of my dogs have wrappers the others are cut down and the one in wrappers does everything the others do...run, play, get in the mud, go to the beach, rub on the couch, chases the toys, runs, rolls in the tomato plants ect...hmmm not a bad life as I see it

[Woogie Man]

Well, any dog can get used to most any lifestyle. But the standard shouldn't change for a dog because of our lifestyles, should it? When I put the two standards (KC and YTCA) side by side, I get a clearer picture of a Terrier in my mind with the KC standard than with the American standard. Our standard seems a bit vague and I wonder why?

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

The one thing I can say about my dogs whether they are traditional colored or parti colored is that my dogs have a life. They are happy and healthy Terriers that all love to hunt and do the terrier thing. They are not in kennels or wraps for the show world. Not one of my dogs is scared or afraid to hunt mice or rats. They are all Terrier. How many of you show people can say your dogs are that brave? Or how many have ever seen a mouse?
The Yorkie was bred for it and when you take that away, you NO LONGER HAVE A TERRIER

Honey, I never said they wouldn't chase them nor catch them. They are not afraid of them...actually each one of mine has caught a bird out of mid air because they landed in "their" yard. Mine keeps the cats out of the yard. My dogs are actually very brave and all terrier even the one in wrappers LOL...My Tucker can do back flips with great patellas, healthy and loves to do his tricks and isn't afraid of trying anything and he's a finished champion, neutered of course now....so please if you only knew what my dogs do...yes I show and darn proud of the accomplishments my dogs have done in the ring

[yorkiegirl2]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

The one thing I can say about my dogs whether they are traditional colored or parti colored is that my dogs have a life. They are happy and healthy Terriers that all love to hunt and do the terrier thing. They are not in kennels or wraps for the show world. Not one of my dogs is scared or afraid to hunt mice or rats. They are all Terrier. How many of you show people can say your dogs are that brave? Or how many have ever seen a mouse?
The Yorkie was bred for it and when you take that away, you NO LONGER HAVE A TERRIER

I agree Deb the terrier is being bred out of the yorkies.
Mine will chase rabbits, squirrels, dig for moles and have cornered snakes.

If show breeders continue on the present course the dog will be nothing more then lapdogs.

And the trend to breed shorter and shorter noses (extreme doll faces) not only will it effect the bite but the dogs will also start having major breathing problems.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by yorkiegirl2

I agree Deb the terrier is being bred out of the yorkies.
Mine will chase rabbits, squirrels, dig for moles and have cornered snakes.

If show breeders continue on the present course the dog will be nothing more then lapdogs.

And the trend to breed shorter and shorter noses (extreme doll faces) not only will it effect the bite but the dogs will also start having major breathing problems.

doll faces aren't correct and shouldn't be bred for that...I love the correct nose. I wouldn't show a dog that was afraid of anything...they have to have that "terrier" attitude in the ring...I just sent home a yorkie that loves to growl at the bigger dogs in the next ring...gotta love that attitude so even tho I have a dog in wrappers and protect them in their pens when I'm not home to supervise they are all the way they are suppose to be....I invite Breezeaway to come watch Radar and Drea at a dog show and see how they act. I'd invite you to my home but nahhh dont let anyone in my home that tries and tells me my dogs aren't happy dogs...nothing personal

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

doll faces aren't correct and shouldn't be bred for that...I love the correct nose. I wouldn't show a dog that was afraid of anything...they have to have that "terrier" attitude in the ring...I just sent home a yorkie that loves to growl at the bigger dogs in the next ring...gotta love that attitude so even tho I have a dog in wrappers and protect them in their pens when I'm not home to supervise they are all the way they are suppose to be....I invite Breezeaway to come watch Radar and Drea at a dog show and see how they act. I'd invite you to my home but nahhh dont let anyone in my home that tries and tells me my dogs aren't happy dogs...nothing personal

Oh and one more thing...they do sleep on my bed and not in crates all 5 of them and are on alert if any noise out of the norm is heard...they are all pretty good guard dogs with the exception of my 15 year old that is deaf and can't hear but when he could hear he was my other guard alert dog...

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by yorkiegirl2

I agree Deb the terrier is being bred out of the yorkies.
Mine will chase rabbits, squirrels, dig for moles and have cornered snakes.

If show breeders continue on the present course the dog will be nothing more then lapdogs.

And the trend to breed shorter and shorter noses (extreme doll faces) not only will it effect the bite but the dogs will also start having major breathing problems.

I'm not sure we've gotten to the point of breeding the terrier out of a Yorkshire, but maybe it's reached a point where it's been 'improved' enough. Maybe now the focus should be on preserving what we've got....a beautiful, sporty dog with a unique temperament.

I'd like to think that consideration for what the Yorkshire was bred for doesn't take a back seat to its look, but that may be a bit naive. If it becomes an even more 'elegant' dog than now, I think something will be lost in the trade-off.