YTCA breeders---

[magicgenie]

I disapprove of tail docking too. I do it sometimes, talk about caving to peer pressure, only to avoid the negative attention of US breeders at ringside. My Rosy has been showing in Europe and just won her Jr CH and a Jr BIS in Hungary and will be coming home now to show in AKC, with her beautiful, full European tail. I suppose while they're grumbling about me they're giving someone else a rest...

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Raymond's Mom

Hi,

First of all, there is nothing in the Code of Conduct or Code of Ethics for the YTCA that mandates that a breeding dog or pair must be spayed/neutered if an off color pup is produced. That is up to the discretion of the breeder. But you had better believe that the off color pup won't end up being sold by that breeder as rare, rainbow, etc. etc. The YTCA breeders strive to preserve our breed as a blue and gold dog. Regarding your question, I personally would not keep a puppy out of a litter that produced an off color. Nor would I ever breed the parents together again. If I ever did choose to breed either parent and it again produced an off color with another mate I'd remove it from my breeding program. Let's face it, this is a very hard breed. There are so many things we have to breed for, color alone is difficult. Why stack the cards against yourself by keeping and breeding from pups that most likely carry the gene for off colors. And yes, I understand Mendelyn's Law so not all pups will carry the gene. But litters are small and every litter we breed must count. You'd be setting yourself up for disappointment by keeping the littermates. Not a good way to start.

Absolutely correct.

However, one must understand that these mismarked yorkie puppies are not the result of mis-alliances, or throwbacks but are rather the net product of incorrectly inherited genes, which have failed to activate the pigment glandular system to providing what they require to be in accord with the Yorkshire Standard's breed.

It's not to say that a breeder has not produced one of these puppies, but one would not breed them, they should be altered and "placed" in a loving home. Not captilized on them and sold as rare.

[107barney]

leaving the tail...leaving the dewclaws...promoting funky colors...what next? mixing a yorkie with a sewer rat to make them tinier teacups. All breeders that deviate from the standard should spend a day with those of us buyers that pay for your genetic garbage when we have to drain our bank accounts and suffer emotional turmoil when our dogs are deathly ill.
And this is why, as a buyer who "didnt really care" initially about going to a YTCA breeder, is really glad she stumbled on that road. I guess we all differ in our view of "ethics." And I'm glad I had the resources to take care of this dog so another one did not end up as a throwaway in rescue.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Absolutely correct.

However, one must understand that these mismarked yorkie puppies are not the result of mis-alliances, or throwbacks but are rather the net product of incorrectly inherited genes, which have failed to activate the pigment glandular system to providing what they require to be in accord with the Yorkshire Standard's breed.

It's not to say that a breeder has not produced one of these puppies, but one would not breed them, they should be altered and "placed" in a loving home. Not captilized on them and sold as rare.

Originally Posted by 107barney

leaving the tail...leaving the dewclaws...promoting funky colors...what next? mixing a yorkie with a sewer rat to make them tinier teacups. All breeders that deviate from the standard should spend a day with those of us buyers that pay for your genetic garbage when we have to drain our bank accounts and suffer emotional turmoil when our dogs are deathly ill.
And this is why, as a buyer who "didnt really care" initially about going to a YTCA breeder, is really glad she stumbled on that road. I guess we all differ in our view of "ethics." And I'm glad I had the resources to take care of this dog so another one did not end up as a throwaway in rescue.

Too bad that it all falls on deaf ears. Greed is all that motivates some people.

[peachbongi]

After sitting back and educating myself I have come to realize the importance of YTCA. As a "breeder in training" my goal is to work towards YTCA membership. This is NOT an easy task, the members are screened heavily to be sure they are doing all they can to uphold the standard. This leads me only to believe that breeders who are the best of the best are YTCA.

Having said that I am not by any means blind to politics and the bad apples that slip through. It happens in every aspect of life. I consider myself lucky to know the importance early in my breeding. I will do my best to breed by the YTCA standards and ethics until I find myself lucky enough one day to join.

As a pet owner it means having a little extra assurance that the dog I purchase from a YTCA breeder will be the best possible pet I can get. It also shows others that the breeder is serious about producing dogs according to the standard. I understand I have a pup for sale now and am not a YTCA member. I don't believe my pup is a bad pup, but like I said I now understand the importance of working in that direction and what it would mean to the purchaser.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by peachbongi

After sitting back and educating myself I have come to realize the importance of YTCA. As a "breeder in training" my goal is to work towards YTCA membership. This is NOT an easy task, the members are screened heavily to be sure they are doing all they can to uphold the standard. This leads me only to believe that breeders who are the best of the best are YTCA.

Having said that I am not by any means blind to politics and the bad apples that slip through. It happens in every aspect of life. I consider myself lucky to know the importance early in my breeding. I will do my best to breed by the YTCA standards and ethics until I find myself lucky enough one day to join.

As a pet owner it means having a little extra assurance that the dog I purchase from a YTCA breeder will be the best possible pet I can get. It also shows others that the breeder is serious about producing dogs according to the standard. I understand I have a pup for sale now and am not a YTCA member. I don't believe my pup is a bad pup, but like I said I now understand the importance of working in that direction and what it would mean to the purchaser.

You are right. One doesn't have to be a YTCA member to beed to standard or follow the code of ethics or conduct. They are there for everyone to follow. I was a member before I ever began my breeding program

My mentor isn't YTCA, however she was tough on me. Didn't allow me to breed until I finished 3 Champions; learned how to read pedigrees and assisted her on numerous whelps, and much, much more.

[magicgenie]

Originally Posted by 107barney

leaving the tail...leaving the dewclaws...promoting funky colors...what next? mixing a yorkie with a sewer rat to make them tinier teacups. All breeders that deviate from the standard should spend a day with those of us buyers that pay for your genetic garbage when we have to drain our bank accounts and suffer emotional turmoil when our dogs are deathly ill.
And this is why, as a buyer who "didnt really care" initially about going to a YTCA breeder, is really glad she stumbled on that road. I guess we all differ in our view of "ethics." And I'm glad I had the resources to take care of this dog so another one did not end up as a throwaway in rescue.

What do tails and dew claws have to do with genetics? I think all dogs get them. Some of us believe cutting off the tail is unnecessary mutilation, which practice originated from exhibitors' inability to agree on correct carriage of the full tail. How ethical is it to just cut it off, thus simplifying the judging? I refuse to judge others for producing parti colors since I cannot find evidence that such practice produces unhealthy dogs. When a real scientist explains the perils I will listen and reassess my position. The reference to breeding to sewer rats goes beyond offensive.

Bottom line is not many people would spend what I did on these dogs with no chance of ever recovering the financial investment. My dogs have superb pedigrees to stand on, pedigrees anyone with a computer can easily research.

There is no excuse for blindly accepting that because a breeder is a YTCA member they must be good.

[peachbongi]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

You are right. One doesn't have to be a YTCA member to beed to standard or follow the code of ethics or conduct. They are there for everyone to follow. I was a member before I ever began my breeding program

My mentor isn't YTCA, however she was tough on me. Didn't allow me to breed until I finished 3 Champions; learned how to read pedigrees and assisted her on numerous whelps, and much, much more.

You were so fortunate to have such a good mentor! Even though you are not a current member we all know your reputation as a breeder and I believe it was you who once told me that your reputation will prove you are a good breeder. I hope to one day be YTCA, even if it is for a short time. In the mean time I will work towards a good reputation.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by peachbongi

You were so fortunate to have such a good mentor! Even though you are not a current member we all know your reputation as a breeder and I believe it was you who once told me that your reputation will prove you are a good breeder. I hope to one day be YTCA, even if it is for a short time. In the mean time I will work towards a good reputation.

Not sure if I misunderstood you, but Mary is a current member of the YTCA, she joined before she ever began breeding. Her mentor, however, is not.

[peachbongi]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Not sure if I misunderstood you, but Mary is a current member of the YTCA, she joined before she ever began breeding. Her mentor, however, is not.

Oh geeze! I read her reply wrong!


Sorry Mary.

Maybe I better think twice about breeding? LOL

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by magicgenie

originated from exhibitors' inability to agree on correct carriage of the full tail. How ethical is it to just cut it off, thus simplifying the judging?

I had always been under the impression that docking originated when they were used as the ratters they were originally bred to be...

Originally Posted by magicgenie

I cannot find evidence that such practice produces unhealthy dogs.

Is there evidence that proves it doesn't? That has always been a question in my mind. I've never seen anything that proves it concretely one way or the other...at least as far as extensive, long term, professional, coordinated research.

Originally Posted by magicgenie

not many people would spend what I did on these dogs with no chance of ever recovering the financial investment.

Generally speaking, that's an interesting concept. So whether or not you should breed a dog should be determined by how much you have invested in them, regardless? I thought that risking that sometimes taking a loss just came with the territory. A friend of mine has a male that she got scammed $2500 on. The dog is roached back and recently had surgery to correct LP. You could say she has a lot invested in him. Should she breed him anyway?

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by peachbongi

Oh geeze! I read her reply wrong!


Sorry Mary.

Maybe I better think twice about breeding? LOL

Lol, in my opinion, anyone who can admit they are wrong about something sometimes, instead of just making excuses, and blaming others, will do well with whatever they are learning.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by magicgenie

What do tails and dew claws have to do with genetics? I think all dogs get them. Some of us believe cutting off the tail is unnecessary mutilation, which practice originated from exhibitors' inability to agree on correct carriage of the full tail. How ethical is it to just cut it off, thus simplifying the judging? I refuse to judge others for producing parti colors since I cannot find evidence that such practice produces unhealthy dogs. When a real scientist explains the perils I will listen and reassess my position. The reference to breeding to sewer rats goes beyond offensive.

Bottom line is not many people would spend what I did on these dogs with no chance of ever recovering the financial investment. My dogs have superb pedigrees to stand on, pedigrees anyone with a computer can easily research.

There is no excuse for blindly accepting that because a breeder is a YTCA member they must be good.

Well well it's you in the snit. I'm sorry you are mad about the club's rules, and the lack of reception and friendship extended to you by its members. If you are offended by my sewer rat reference, that is your problem. I made a general statement about poor breeding and crusaders who can't follow rules. If you took that personally, oh well. I will stand by my comments - as I said, spend a day, spend a day. This week, I spent $200 for blood work and next week I'll shell out another grand or so for dental work - thanks to bad breeding and due to no other reason. If that makes me a snit - I wear that tag proudly.

[magicgenie]

You must take my word for it Bamafan that I pay top money for top quality dogs that belong wholly and exclusively to me. My investment over the past then years would pay for a long, luxurious retirement. I do this purely for love of these little dogs. I will appreciatively consider all advice offerred, but ultimately make my own decisions and expect others to respect my right to do so. I have and will continue to offer help wherever I can, be it another breeder needing assistance or an animal needing rescue.
I have a big problem with tails, dewclaws, funky colors, sewer rats, and now dental work finding their way into discussions of pedigree and genetics.
With that, I'll ask admin to close this thread as another exercise in futility.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by magicgenie

You must take my word for it Bamafan that I pay top money for top quality dogs that belong wholly and exclusively to me. My investment over the past then years would pay for a long, luxurious retirement. I do this purely for love of these little dogs. I will appreciatively consider all advice offerred, but ultimately make my own decisions and expect others to respect my right to do so. I have and will continue to offer help wherever I can, be it another breeder needing assistance or an animal needing rescue.
I have a big problem with tails, dewclaws, funky colors, sewer rats, and now dental work finding their way into discussions of pedigree and genetics.
With that, I'll ask admin to close this thread as another exercise in futility.

A discussion about pedigree and genetics? I thought it was about, "Anyway, I think I'm at least as dedicated to good breeding as the best of the YTCA, but will remain a free-thinker, thank you."