YTCA breeders---

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

In addition, for the record, one does not have to be a breeder or an exhibitor to be a member. However, one does have to have the need/desire to uphold The Standard and perserve the breed, as most members do.

this couldn't have said it any better!!!

[Sharly4]

Oh your babies are pretty, Donna!

[magicgenie]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

I'm a YTCA member that breeds "very" little.
Once again, every organization will have those bad apples...
If one has a brown puppy, parti puppy, golden puppy ect...should spay/neuter and place into a pet home and spay/neuter that breeding pair that produced it ( I know that's what I would do with NO hesitation ).
I always say the YTCA is a starting place and research your breeder thoroughly and that breeder will become your family for life, as you, as a breeder are entrusting your little one to someone else. Breeding and showing in my opinion does go hand in hand and should. I'll say again, it's all about morals, ethics and responsiblity.

I do understand how little you breed, and that your pleasure is derived from going out there and showing an excellent dog. I think that most of us would be in financial ruins if we didn't have puppies to sell to pay for the showing.

My big departure from YTCA is that I would not automatically spay/neuter an otherwise excellent pair that produced a brown, parti, or other non-standard color. Nor would I would keep a great looking, healthy carrier out of the ring. Since my breeding dogs are exclusively for my use, not for sale or stud, I am taking a more liberal position with regards to color. Therefore, I cannot belong to YTCA.

By the way, I often refer people to the YTCA directory as the place one will most likely find a good breeder, hoping one day YTCEHB becomes big enough to be a good resource too.

[BFar]

Hi all. I have a question regarding something that was brought up in this thread. I used to breed Maltese and basically, they all came out white. So you might get a little lemon color on the ears but basically color was a given. Now this Yorkie thing is definitely a "dog of a different color" LOL. Just with the things I've learned along the way about breeding dogs in general... something from generations back can pop up. Does that mean an excellent dog should be thrown out of a breeding program? How about if a dog produced many above average quality Yorkies and then threw a brown Yorkie? I wonder if that warrants throwing it out of a breeding program. I have not produced a litter of Yorkie puppies but I intend to breed my girl after I finish her. So this is really just for discussion purposes. I love the subject of inheritance. Very interesting!

I've (attempted to attach )a pic of my bitch from the weekend where she got back to back majors. So, I slipped a brag in there

Barbara

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by magicgenie

I do understand how little you breed, and that your pleasure is derived from going out there and showing an excellent dog. I think that most of us would be in financial ruins if we didn't have puppies to sell to pay for the showing.

My big departure from YTCA is that I would not automatically spay/neuter an otherwise excellent pair that produced a brown, parti, or other non-standard color. Nor would I would keep a great looking, healthy carrier out of the ring. Since my breeding dogs are exclusively for my use, not for sale or stud, I am taking a more liberal position with regards to color. Therefore, I cannot belong to YTCA.

By the way, I often refer people to the YTCA directory as the place one will most likely find a good breeder, hoping one day YTCEHB becomes big enough to be a good resource too.

Well for me it I would spay/neuter and take out of my breeding program because the standard does not call for those off colors so therefore I wouldn't breed it again. Just like I wouldn't breed a yorkie with a bad bite even though it has good structure. There are major faults I can't live with even if that was the only fault my dog had.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

Well for me it I would spay/neuter and take out of my breeding program because the standard does not call for those off colors so therefore I wouldn't breed it again. Just like I wouldn't breed a yorkie with a bad bite even though it has good structure. There are major faults I can't live with even if that was the only fault my dog had.

And that's why the YTCA is in place; to perserve the Standard.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by BFar

Hi all. I have a question regarding something that was brought up in this thread. I used to breed Maltese and basically, they all came out white. So you might get a little lemon color on the ears but basically color was a given. Now this Yorkie thing is definitely a "dog of a different color" LOL. Just with the things I've learned along the way about breeding dogs in general... something from generations back can pop up. Does that mean an excellent dog should be thrown out of a breeding program? How about if a dog produced many above average quality Yorkies and then threw a brown Yorkie? I wonder if that warrants throwing it out of a breeding program. I have not produced a litter of Yorkie puppies but I intend to breed my girl after I finish her. So this is really just for discussion purposes. I love the subject of inheritance. Very interesting!

I've (attempted to attach )a pic of my bitch from the weekend where she got back to back majors. So, I slipped a brag in there

Barbara

First off, Let me CONGRATULATE you on your back to back majors!! That is AWESOME!!!!
To answer your question it's a question as to what "faults" you can live with in your breeding program. I won't breed a dog with a bad bite even though that dog may have the best structure and movement. That is a fault I do not want to produce in my lines as I don't want to produce an off color yorkie either. You can also have a great dog and it finally had LS pop up from generations back so of course even though it's produced many good qualities and may have had many champions the first thing I'd do is absolutely spay/neuter that producer of LS or any other genetic health issue or major fault. But I can only speak for myself and what I'd do as a breeder/exhibitor I've neutered my first champion yorkie and he has "GREAT" lines in his pedigree and that pedigree has produced many champions ect...but he ended up with an over shot bite, went too light and it's just something I couldn't live with in my breeding program even though he has some wonderful, wonderful lineage behind him. Again, it's what faults you can live with and what's easier to breed out ect....lots of variances to what one can live with what they want to produce.

Donna

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by magicgenie

I do understand how little you breed, and that your pleasure is derived from going out there and showing an excellent dog. I think that most of us would be in financial ruins if we didn't have puppies to sell to pay for the showing.

My big departure from YTCA is that I would not automatically spay/neuter an otherwise excellent pair that produced a brown, parti, or other non-standard color. Nor would I would keep a great looking, healthy carrier out of the ring. Since my breeding dogs are exclusively for my use, not for sale or stud, I am taking a more liberal position with regards to color. Therefore, I cannot belong to YTCA.

By the way, I often refer people to the YTCA directory as the place one will most likely find a good breeder, hoping one day YTCEHB becomes big enough to be a good resource too.

Well, I guess this depends again on your perspective, but I see breed clubs as "conservators" of the breed. Past breeders have worked very hard to create a dog breeds out of various mutts. Eventually, there is an identifiable standard that is acceptable to the experts of the breed, and these would be the people who have been involved in the breed for years and have studied under other "experts". They don't go in as a novice, and want to change the standard. They realize that just because they have a "purebred" it means nothing, and for a dog to be bred it has to have more than a purebred background, it has to be a great example of the breed. I think this is where most newbie breeders go wrong. I look at it the way one might look at a endangered species, if you want that species around in the future, you have to protect and preserve it, and even help it mate. Until someone understands the importance of "standard" and why it's in place, I personally don't even think they should be breeding. In my opinion, you cannot just pick and choose what part of standard you accept and what part you reject, and still be a good breeder. Standard should change very slowly, and in my opinion, only because of health risks being connected with certain traits. Good breeders should never cave in to popular demands from the puppy buying public, so unless you can understand the importance of preserving standard, than no breed club will ever be right for you, as that is their primary purpose! This doesn't just pertain to the Yorkshire Terrier breed, without a clear standard, there really is no breed, standard is first, linage is second.

[BFar]

Thanks for the congratulations. It was great fun.

I too would not choose to breed an off standard colored Yorkie or bad mouthed Yorkie.. but I'm wondering if we need to throw the parents out of a breeding program if they produce such a puppy. Rather, select the best puppies, if they are as good or better than their parents?

Barbara

[gemy]

Originally Posted by 107barney

Being a YTCA breeder didn't mean a whole lot to me initially when I was looking for a dog. I just wanted to buy a dog from someone who cared about something other than money in raising and selling dogs. Having been down the road of two puppy mill dogs and the problems inherent in poor breeding including financial and emotional costs,
I don't know about the politics of the YTCA or any other club for that matter and as a buyer I really don't care.

I think I understand that point of view. However I would like to say that the National and Regional Breed clubs, do their utmost to preserve the breed. They are the ultimate guardians of this breed, and it does heavily include the health risks of Yorkies. Their members try to preserve this beautiful breed in looks, in conformation, in temperament, and in health. Without their efforts, their education of breeders, the Yorkshire Terrier might be in dire straits.

I think that as an owner of this wonderful breed, as I am, you may find your way to seeing the importance of a National club, and support their efforts in ways that you can.

For most pet buyers don't understand the importance of Breed Clubs. Quite simply without them, any purebred dog, might fade away into cross bred dilution, and insignifance.

We are usually a relatively small group of ppl, passionate about our breed, and spend countless hours, researching, training, teaching, and learning. These are countless hours of volunteer work, whose only purpose is to protect our breed, to improve the breed, to see this beautiful breed continue to thrive and to improve.

We do this first for our love of the breed, and if you have purchased a pup from an "ethical" breeder be they a member or not of YTCA, they for sure have tried to keep up with the latest in research, the YTCA's guidelines for breeding, have health tested all their sires and dams as per those guidelines.

So in summary the clubs of any purebred dog are a huge part of you getting a healthy pup.

[Raymond's Mom]

Originally Posted by BFar

Thanks for the congratulations. It was great fun.

I too would not choose to breed an off standard colored Yorkie or bad mouthed Yorkie.. but I'm wondering if we need to throw the parents out of a breeding program if they produce such a puppy. Rather, select the best puppies, if they are as good or better than their parents?

Barbara

Hi,

First of all, there is nothing in the Code of Conduct or Code of Ethics for the YTCA that mandates that a breeding dog or pair must be spayed/neutered if an off color pup is produced. That is up to the discretion of the breeder. But you had better believe that the off color pup won't end up being sold by that breeder as rare, rainbow, etc. etc. The YTCA breeders strive to preserve our breed as a blue and gold dog. Regarding your question, I personally would not keep a puppy out of a litter that produced an off color. Nor would I ever breed the parents together again. If I ever did choose to breed either parent and it again produced an off color with another mate I'd remove it from my breeding program. Let's face it, this is a very hard breed. There are so many things we have to breed for, color alone is difficult. Why stack the cards against yourself by keeping and breeding from pups that most likely carry the gene for off colors. And yes, I understand Mendelyn's Law so not all pups will carry the gene. But litters are small and every litter we breed must count. You'd be setting yourself up for disappointment by keeping the littermates. Not a good way to start.

[magicgenie]

I didn't mean to get into a color debate.

I breed for health, temperament, structure, color, IN THAT ORDER.

I don't breed for partis, brown, gold, green, whatever, never got an off color puppy, never had anyone ask for one. It does not, however, make me all nervous when someone else likes those colors if they're not trying to force them on me.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by gemy

I think I understand that point of view. However I would like to say that the National and Regional Breed clubs, do their utmost to preserve the breed. They are the ultimate guardians of this breed, and it does heavily include the health risks of Yorkies. Their members try to preserve this beautiful breed in looks, in conformation, in temperament, and in health. Without their efforts, their education of breeders, the Yorkshire Terrier might be in dire straits.

I think that as an owner of this wonderful breed, as I am, you may find your way to seeing the importance of a National club, and support their efforts in ways that you can.

For most pet buyers don't understand the importance of Breed Clubs. Quite simply without them, any purebred dog, might fade away into cross bred dilution, and insignifance.

We are usually a relatively small group of ppl, passionate about our breed, and spend countless hours, researching, training, teaching, and learning. These are countless hours of volunteer work, whose only purpose is to protect our breed, to improve the breed, to see this beautiful breed continue to thrive and to improve.

We do this first for our love of the breed, and if you have purchased a pup from an "ethical" breeder be they a member or not of YTCA, they for sure have tried to keep up with the latest in research, the YTCA's guidelines for breeding, have health tested all their sires and dams as per those guidelines.

So in summary the clubs of any purebred dog are a huge part of you getting a healthy pup.

I don't need to find my way to anything - Don't you think that buying a dog ultimately from a YTCA breeder did exactly what you think I need to learn to do -- i.e. support the club? My point was that the average buyer just does not care. I don't consider myself an average buyer - I'm an educated buyer and yorkie owner so imagine my surprise when I found that I knew more about this breed than some breeders I talked to. With that being said, I still highly regard Teddy's breeder and he is a better dog than those from the puppy mill. Is he perfect - not quite LOL.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Raymond's Mom

Hi,

First of all, there is nothing in the Code of Conduct or Code of Ethics for the YTCA that mandates that a breeding dog or pair must be spayed/neutered if an off color pup is produced. That is up to the discretion of the breeder. But you had better believe that the off color pup won't end up being sold by that breeder as rare, rainbow, etc. etc. The YTCA breeders strive to preserve our breed as a blue and gold dog. Regarding your question, I personally would not keep a puppy out of a litter that produced an off color. Nor would I ever breed the parents together again. If I ever did choose to breed either parent and it again produced an off color with another mate I'd remove it from my breeding program. Let's face it, this is a very hard breed. There are so many things we have to breed for, color alone is difficult. Why stack the cards against yourself by keeping and breeding from pups that most likely carry the gene for off colors. And yes, I understand Mendelyn's Law so not all pups will carry the gene. But litters are small and every litter we breed must count. You'd be setting yourself up for disappointment by keeping the littermates. Not a good way to start.

I think you meant Mendel.

[Raymond's Mom]

Originally Posted by 107barney

I think you meant Mendel.

I think I meant Mendelian!