Yorkshire Terrier Club of Ethical Hobby Breeders

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

I do think it is possible to produce a quality Yorkie and not show..but you MUST be closely connected and involved with show breeders. Buying show stock and using a tip top stud is the only way I have seen breeders produce good, better, best over and over.

How does a breeder who doesn't show get show stock and a tip top stud, though? I am under the impression that show quality puppies are very hard to come by unless you have a mentor and that usually there is a co-ownership agreement that the dog must be championed prior to breeding.

I've known breeders who have made the transition from byb's to small hobby show breeders that way, but I have never heard of show breeders letting show quality puppies go to breeders who only have pet quality breeding stock or allowing a champion stud to be bred with a pet.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

Just one?

This is what I have found...if you put 100 show breeders in a room...10% will be people you will want as good friends. 80% will be a mixture of nice, decent people who may come and go in your life..and the last 10% have at some point in their life made a pact with Satan...I avoid those people.

Pat glad your back on her posting girl, I have missed your wit! Thats so true!

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

I do think it is possible to produce a quality Yorkie and not show..but you MUST be closely connected and involved with show breeders. Buying show stock and using a tip top stud is the only way I have seen breeders produce good, better, best over and over.

We all see pictures of "pretty" Yorkies on pet breeders sites..seen lots in person..but when I actually see the dog in the flesh, many times the breeder has no clue a fault was evident. IE...two weeks ago I saw a 7 mos old bitch puppy and the breeder never noticed the overbite...of course you do not have to show to recognize a bad bite..but too many of us can become kennel blind and we need to "mingle" with the best to recognize the best and pursue it.

When a pet breeder says.."this bitch or that dog is show quality, but it is hates the ring, won't show..then guess what..it is not show quality...that makes it a pet.

Because Yorkies are second most popular AKC breed it is more important now then ever to protect and perserve the breed..I can not remember the last time I saw a Yorkie here in south FLorida that looked like a Yorkie..aside from two weeks ago at the Specialty...sad but true.

It is not as black and white as people make it seem. There are show breeders that will breed dogs witgh health issues, and there are what you refer to as BYB's who do not care to show, but are concerned about the health, and do take responsibility for their puppies. They are constantly trying to better their own breeding stock.

It is a real challenge for NON show breeders, because if they don't show, show breeders will not sell to them, period. So they have to just try to find the best stock that they can and build their own lines.

It's not the showing that determines a good breeder from a bad one. It is the responsibility you take.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by peanut

Pat glad your back on her posting girl, I have missed your wit! Thats so true!

Hey peanut just noticed your very cute avatar.. But as we all know cats don't Drool.... they rule. lol lol

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by smartpuppiepets

There is a huge difference between one and the other. I have seen people using the words "hobby breeder" just to try to look somewhat reputable, and in fact they are BYB, back yard breeders.

Probably the best definition I have found so far to answer "What is a back yard breeder (BYB)?" is this one:
"The average pet owner that breeds their dog(s)."

Why are back yard breeders a problem? Well, they just breed dogs for the sake of it or to make some money, to keep an offspring or "to have another just like this one i love, or even to allow my dog to be a parent just one time before i get it fixed, for my kids to experience the birth experience... etc... reasons like that. They may have a sweet pet they want to try and reproduce or they think that their dogs are quality because they have papers and/or are registered with some registry. Most of the time they think they can make a few dollars selling pups, etc. They just put out dogs without real consideration for the future of not only the breed but the puppies produced.

Often, BYBs breed dogs with faults. This perpetuates fault and problems in the breed. They do nothing to prove their dogs are of sound temperament and that they are breeding good representatives of the breed, etc. They just breed. they have no clue of what a OFA is, and they do not want to have any education on the health issues. They justify themselves saying : my dogs never had anything wrong with them!

Often a BYB will sell puppies "cash only" and no health guarantees or contract are offered beyond the local laws obligate , well, most of the time they dont know about local lemon laws. They also sometimes try to pass as reliable by offering a "vet health certificate" , this is one just like the ones we get to travel with our dogs, it just proves that at the time the pup was taken to a vet, the vet did not see any signs of any communicable diseases or illness. That vet health certificate "thing" does not prove anything beyond the day the pup was seen by that vet and in most states it expires within 7 days.

There is HUGE difference between a BYB and a hobby breeder who breeds to improve their dogs and takes RESPONSIBILITY on the puppies that are produced. I could go on and on here ... and other YTalkers would pitch in and add ...
But so much have already been written about the difference between these.

I my self never seen a educated person define BYB and Hobby breeder as the same thing !

XOXO

Yes, I agree, but I've never heard anyone refer to themselves as a backyard breeder. Sometimes they say things like, "I'm not a breeder" but their dogs had a litter, and other times they say things like "I'm a hobby breeder" when the dog has more than one litter.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by gemy

Hey peanut just noticed your very cute avatar.. But as we all know cats don't Drool.... they rule. lol lol

Tell that to my yorkies

[YorkieRose]

Originally Posted by Ladymom

How does a breeder who doesn't show get show stock and a tip top stud, though? I am under the impression that show quality puppies are very hard to come by unless you have a mentor and that usually there is a co-ownership agreement that the dog must be championed prior to breeding.

I've known breeders who have made the transition from byb's to small hobby show breeders that way, but I have never heard of show breeders letting show quality puppies go to breeders who only have pet quality breeding stock or allowing a champion stud to be bred with a pet.

I kept hanging around the ring until people got sick of my pitiful look...just being there..at every show, event and I guess I gave the impression I was NOT going away.
I realize I started a long time ago..but even as recent as 3 years ago I know a novice who asked to be referred to stud clients of show breeders who were willing to sell to them...and yes, you may have to start by co-owning a breeding bitch, but why not...all you need is one good puppy from that bitch to start...once I got a good bitch I was never turned away from stud service with good champions.
Buy the best bitch you can and breed to the best stud available to you...take one of those pups in the ring...even if it is not the best..you have to get known.
If I may tell this..Jamie Bennett..one of the best handlers and breeders started with an average male. She bought it from a friend of mine, who used good stud service, but never showed.
Jamie show him at every show and dedicated herself to her goal..got a few singles on him...but what it really got her was the attention of one of the best..and look where she is now...but it does not happen overnight.

The truth is, you do not have to have that good a prospect to show...you are buying experince and need a dog on the end of the lead..look for something decent, as good as you can get, grow a coat, go to handling classes and show it...I showed several "frogs" before I was able to breed a "Prince"...
I showed a pet male at a Specialty one time..a woman at ringside asked me why..I told her it was the best I could do...she gave me a champion bitch, outright, no strings..
A sincere desire to achieve your goal will be recognized over time...and people need to see honesty and intrigity in you too. Your word is gold and there are no excuses not to keep it.

[YorkieRose]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Yes, I agree, but I've never heard anyone refer to themselves as a backyard breeder. Sometimes they say things like, "I'm not a breeder" but their dogs had a litter, and other times they say things like "I'm a hobby breeder" when the dog has more than one litter.

What I hear most is..."I breed for pets, not show dogs"...

[smartpuppiepets]

Originally Posted by chachi

Then you need to get on other dog forums or google hobby breeder because they do. They say its because they dont show so thier dogs aqrent evaluated and arent involved in rescue and some other reasons. I didnt mean to offend you or anyone else with that statement its not my opinion. I did some research today on the meaning of hobby breeder and thats what I came up with.

I did not get offended at all, just wanted to post some obvious differences.

Anyone can call themselves anything !

A while back we had a woman in our church calling her self a "Doctor" , yes... she was giving free advice and even attempting to "treat" some naive people because she was a "doctor" ... with time she became an "almost doctor" and finally she admitted she was no doctor when confronted about some very wrong advice she was giving. I was suspicious from the beginning, because i am not a doctor, but my brother was and i unfortunately have tons of personal hospital experiences.

BYB can call themselves whatever they want , and they will !!! No doubt about that !
But their practices will also show what they really are, some have good intentions, some do not have good intentions.. some care and others dont.

As long as they BEHAVE like a BYB that is what they will be.

Just one thing i forgot to add on the post : no spay or neuter obligations , full rights offered to anyone who "shows the money on the table" are also characteristics of BYB . I also never seen not even a well intended BYB offer to take back any pups they produce if the situation comes about .

The more we put the word "out there" the more we get people educated ...

XOXO

[YorkieRose]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

It is not as black and white as people make it seem. There are show breeders that will breed dogs witgh health issues, and there are what you refer to as BYB's who do not care to show, but are concerned about the health, and do take responsibility for their puppies. They are constantly trying to better their own breeding stock.

It is a real challenge for NON show breeders, because if they don't show, show breeders will not sell to them, period. So they have to just try to find the best stock that they can and build their own lines.

It's not the showing that determines a good breeder from a bad one. It is the responsibility you take.

I AGREE with your post...BUT what I have observed in these many decades is...when a breeder has no connections to show breeders, avoids attending shows to spectate or show...the quality if the dog suffers.

Line up all the breeders in America and it is simply IMO a matter of percentages...more show breeders are dedicated to the betterment of the breed then non-show breeders...

[WV~Yorkies]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

I kept hanging around the ring until people got sick of my pitiful look...just being there..at every show, event and I guess I gave the impression I was NOT going away.
I realize I started a long time ago..but even as recent as 3 years ago I know a novice who asked to be referred to stud clients of show breeders who were willing to sell to them...and yes, you may have to start by co-owning a breeding bitch, but why not...all you need is one good puppy from that bitch to start...once I got a good bitch I was never turned away from stud service with good champions.
Buy the best bitch you can and breed to the best stud available to you...take one of those pups in the ring...even if it is not the best..you have to get known.
If I may tell this..Jamie Bennett..one of the best handlers and breeders started with an average male. She bought it from a friend of mine, who used good stud service, but never showed.
Jamie show him at every show and dedicated herself to her goal..got a few singles on him...but what it really got her was the attention of one of the best..and look where she is now...but it does not happen overnight.

The truth is, you do not have to have that good a prospect to show...you are buying experince and need a dog on the end of the lead..look for something decent, as good as you can get, grow a coat, go to handling classes and show it...I showed several "frogs" before I was able to breed a "Prince"...
I showed a pet male at a Specialty one time..a woman at ringside asked me why..I told her it was the best I could do...she gave me a champion bitch, outright, no strings..
A sincere desire to achieve your goal will be recognized over time...and people need to see honesty and intrigity in you too. Your word is gold and there are no excuses not to keep it.

Thank you for sharing that. I have felt discouraged but this gives me hope.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

I kept hanging around the ring until people got sick of my pitiful look...just being there..at every show, event and I guess I gave the impression I was NOT going away.
I realize I started a long time ago..but even as recent as 3 years ago I know a novice who asked to be referred to stud clients of show breeders who were willing to sell to them...and yes, you may have to start by co-owning a breeding bitch, but why not...all you need is one good puppy from that bitch to start...once I got a good bitch I was never turned away from stud service with good champions.
Buy the best bitch you can and breed to the best stud available to you...take one of those pups in the ring...even if it is not the best..you have to get known.
If I may tell this..Jamie Bennett..one of the best handlers and breeders started with an average male. She bought it from a friend of mine, who used good stud service, but never showed.
Jamie show him at every show and dedicated herself to her goal..got a few singles on him...but what it really got her was the attention of one of the best..and look where she is now...but it does not happen overnight.

The truth is, you do not have to have that good a prospect to show...you are buying experince and need a dog on the end of the lead..look for something decent, as good as you can get, grow a coat, go to handling classes and show it...I showed several "frogs" before I was able to breed a "Prince"...
I showed a pet male at a Specialty one time..a woman at ringside asked me why..I told her it was the best I could do...she gave me a champion bitch, outright, no strings..
A sincere desire to achieve your goal will be recognized over time...and people need to see honesty and intrigity in you too. Your word is gold and there are no excuses not to keep it.

Thanks Pat, that gives us that do breed and are trying to get a puppy to start showing hope! I know its not easy in the "show world" been there, done it years ago with Cockers, loved it and can't wait to get a yorkie in there.

[musiccitymom]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

I kept hanging around the ring until people got sick of my pitiful look...just being there..at every show, event and I guess I gave the impression I was NOT going away.
I realize I started a long time ago..but even as recent as 3 years ago I know a novice who asked to be referred to stud clients of show breeders who were willing to sell to them...and yes, you may have to start by co-owning a breeding bitch, but why not...all you need is one good puppy from that bitch to start...once I got a good bitch I was never turned away from stud service with good champions.
Buy the best bitch you can and breed to the best stud available to you...take one of those pups in the ring...even if it is not the best..you have to get known.
If I may tell this..Jamie Bennett..one of the best handlers and breeders started with an average male. She bought it from a friend of mine, who used good stud service, but never showed.
Jamie show him at every show and dedicated herself to her goal..got a few singles on him...but what it really got her was the attention of one of the best..and look where she is now...but it does not happen overnight.

The truth is, you do not have to have that good a prospect to show...you are buying experince and need a dog on the end of the lead..look for something decent, as good as you can get, grow a coat, go to handling classes and show it...I showed several "frogs" before I was able to breed a "Prince"...
I showed a pet male at a Specialty one time..a woman at ringside asked me why..I told her it was the best I could do...she gave me a champion bitch, outright, no strings..
A sincere desire to achieve your goal will be recognized over time...and people need to see honesty and intrigity in you too. Your word is gold and there are no excuses not to keep it.

sooo....would a person that just wanted to see if it was for them take some handling classes and try UKC first? Just asking

[topknot]

Originally Posted by musiccitymom

sooo....would a person that just wanted to see if it was for them take some handling classes and try UKC first? Just asking

You could. I started in AKC showing and when I returned I picked right up with AKC showing. There are not many of us that show AKC that show UKC. I know for my area there are not but one or two UKC shows a year. I do not know for your area. You would have to go to their site and see. It would get you use to doing the ring and handling your dog. JMO - I would go with AKC as soon as you could.

[YorkieRose]

Absolutely..UKC..pet parades, you name it..LOL If you are full of pride you will miss so many opportunities to learn and you just might open a closed door.

You DO NOT need a show prospect to attend a handling class...you need a DOG. Classes are more for the human then the dog..you will learn how to handle a dog...didn't someone just post any good handler can finish a dog..even a dead cat?