Yorkshire Terrier Club of Ethical Hobby Breeders

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by maggiesmom_2007

Um no it isn't.

If you are breeding 2 dogs together to improve say structure, that is not enhancing that is improving your line.

but shouldn't you be breeding ONLY finished dogs? If so then the enhancing was to get the dog finished.

So then what is the difference between showing an enhanced dog that you know will throw dark colored pups and showing a carrier that you know will throw parti pups, if it is all being done to improve your lines?

There appears to be a double standard here.

[maggiesmom_2007]

No double standard. I know a breeder who bred 2 standard colored Champions and ended up with a dark colored dog. You always seem to pick and choose what you want to respond to and then twist it to meet your logic. My point being that it does not matter whether you have 2 gorgeous examples of the breed you can get some non standard pups and they are sold as pets because they are non standard.

I think that anyone showing a dog not to standard whether it is a carrier, enhanced or altered in any way it is wrong and deceitful regardless.

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by yorkielady06

If you are in the show circuit and you are showing your dogs to prove that they are worth specimens of the breed correct? And if you are also then using that Champion stud male to approved bitches, correct? So according to the above statement you only breed them to CH bitches? Never to unfinished girls? or vice versa? If you breed to unfinished dogs are you not supplying the pet market also?

I think you can answer your own question by looking at pedigrees. Though there may be a few, I've yet to see a Yorkshire Terrier whose pedigree was all champions. This includes the most accomplished breeders that would not be considered to be 'supplying the pet market'. Case in point....Cede Higgins' dam was not championed. You can check this link to see pedigrees of some notable Yorkies and see there are none with all champions in the pedigree.

Ojibwa Yorkies

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by maggiesmom_2007

No double standard. I know a breeder who bred 2 standard colored Champions and ended up with a dark colored dog. You always seem to pick and choose what you want to respond to and then twist it to meet your logic. My point being that it does not matter whether you have 2 gorgeous examples of the breed you can get some non standard pups and they are sold as pets because they are non standard.

I think that anyone showing a dog not to standard whether it is a carrier, enhanced or altered in any way it is wrong and deceitful regardless.

I did not twist your words. you said "if you are breeding two dogs to improve the the structure that is called improving your lines".

I took that to mean that it is OK to use an off colored dog to improve the structure of the dogs in your line.

Is that not what you meant??

[Elle]

Originally Posted by magicgenie

Moonlight's Two Times Bad is Connie Conn's. She's YTCA and has an impeccable reputation!

This was interesting to me. I read this post

Then it read: Moonlight's Two Times Bad is Connie Conn's. She's YTCA and has an impeccable reputation! __________________

YTCEHB, respect for differences, ethics without politics
www.yorkshireterrierclub.com

Do you think Connie (or any person you feel has an impeccable reputation in the breed for that matter) be part of that club? This thread is about that club, can you please explain how there is anything ethical about fostering out your bitches then bringing them back for breeding but they're still yours? This is a truly disgusting. This is purely using an innocent little body for the sake of using them.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Elle

This was interesting to me. I read this post

Then it read: Moonlight's Two Times Bad is Connie Conn's. She's YTCA and has an impeccable reputation! __________________

YTCEHB, respect for differences, ethics without politics
www.yorkshireterrierclub.com

Do you think Connie (or any person you feel has an impeccable reputation in the breed for that matter) be part of that club? This thread is about that club, can you please explain how there is anything ethical about fostering out your bitches then bringing them back for breeding but they're still yours? This is a truly disgusting. This is purely using an innocent little body for the sake of using them.

There was a thread from someone who bought a male and the breeder had her sign a contract stating that she would not have him neutered so the breeder could use him.

To me that is just pushing your responsibility on to someone else, while you still reap the benefits.

[maggiesmom_2007]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

I did not twist your words. you said "if you are breeding two dogs to improve the the structure that is called improving your lines".

I took that to mean that it is OK to use an off colored dog to improve the structure of the dogs in your line.

Is that not what you meant??

An off colored dog no , but a darker dog yes to improve not to enhance there is a difference. This has been going on since the beginning of the breed.

[Elle]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

HUH

Was there and answer to my question somewhere in there? Are you being sarcastic? Are you mocking me.

Guess I'm clueless cause what you wrote made NO sense at all.

Say what you mean.

Actually it doesn't matter because the questin was not for you?

I wasn't mocking you. You asked if a blanket question.

Like thousands of others I do not believe what you believe is just something that showed up in genetics over night. There's a reason that you are fighting so hard, I sincerely do think you are a strong crusader. But I see something you don't. I look at those dogs and I see a mixed breed.

If they were a form of the breed they would be in our confirmation events. No questions asked. You wouldn't have to fight this fight. But I see a maltese, s**tzu and maybe others. It is no different to me. I LOVE ALL DOGS!!!!! So it's nothing unkind for me to say this. But hearing people call my breed a TRADITIONAL?

Yes there are many parti breeds out there. Just not in yorkies. It's just a few people that are breeding some mix breeds that are way over priced.

[Breezeaway]

The one thing I find truly condescending is how that YTCA President Carl Yocum wrote an article and raved about the Biewer Terrier and the Biewer Terrier club, When in fact the Biewer and the Parti are the EXACT same dogs. Most of them came from the very same linage. The so called club he so profoundly approved of has had their president removed and has been banned from IABCA. So he condones people who lie and cheat and do whatever it takes to get ahead?
Does that set a good example of ethics for the YTCA?

[yorkiegirl2]

Originally Posted by Elle

This was interesting to me. I read this post

Then it read: Moonlight's Two Times Bad is Connie Conn's. She's YTCA and has an impeccable reputation! __________________

YTCEHB, respect for differences, ethics without politics
www.yorkshireterrierclub.com

Do you think Connie (or any person you feel has an impeccable reputation in the breed for that matter) be part of that club? This thread is about that club, can you please explain how there is anything ethical about fostering out your bitches then bringing them back for breeding but they're still yours? This is a truly disgusting. This is purely using an innocent little body for the sake of using them.

Yes, you would call this Co Owning.
Done all the time in the show world.

Disqusting ???
Maybe to pet owners.
Most don't know the half of what go on behind closed door in the show world.

[yorkiegirl2]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

Thank you, he is out of Multi Ch. Moonlights Two Times Bad

Congrats....He is a good looking boy.

[magicgenie]

Originally Posted by Elle

This was interesting to me. I read this post

Then it read: Moonlight's Two Times Bad is Connie Conn's. She's YTCA and has an impeccable reputation! __________________

YTCEHB, respect for differences, ethics without politics
www.yorkshireterrierclub.com

Do you think Connie (or any person you feel has an impeccable reputation in the breed for that matter) be part of that club? This thread is about that club, can you please explain how there is anything ethical about fostering out your bitches then bringing them back for breeding but they're still yours? This is a truly disgusting. This is purely using an innocent little body for the sake of using them.

I know Connie by reputation and she is one of the few US breeders I'd consider purchasing from. I have no idea how she feels about YTCEHB. What is the connection between Connie and fostering bitches, and what makes that disgusting? I know several YTCA members who do that. The young bitch, often a champion, goes off to live free of charge as a pampered pet with all vet expenses covered by the breeder, returning periodically during reproductive years to whelp and raise a litter of high quality puppies. Same arrangement applies to many champion males. What is disgusting about that? This sounds like everybody wins, especially the dog that doesn't spend the first few years of its life as part of the pack at the breeder's home. What's disgusting about that?

The way you're chasing me around on here looking for things to attack is exactly what put me off on YTCA. Most members may not be like you, but enough are that I don't want to be associated with it. You lick a few boots to obtain membership in YTCA and once in it's a lifetime pass that some take as license to be snotty and rude, sometimes downright destructive to the breed. Leave me alone.

[yorkielady06]

Originally Posted by Elle

I wasn't mocking you. You asked if a blanket question.

Like thousands of others I do not believe what you believe is just something that showed up in genetics over night. There's a reason that you are fighting so hard, I sincerely do think you are a strong crusader. But I see something you don't. I look at those dogs and I see a mixed breed.

If they were a form of the breed they would be in our confirmation events. No questions asked. You wouldn't have to fight this fight. But I see a maltese, s**tzu and maybe others. It is no different to me. I LOVE ALL DOGS!!!!! So it's nothing unkind for me to say this. But hearing people call my breed a TRADITIONAL?

Yes there are many parti breeds out there. Just not in yorkies. It's just a few people that are breeding some mix breeds that are way over priced.

Believe it or not, some people even with DNA proof, never will that is your choice. Would you also deny DNA evidence at a crime scene? Probably. But the law would say otherwise. These dogs have been around, it is in the literature and in the DNA. They are a recognized color in the AKC. They may not be allowed in the ring but other than that they have been proven to be purebred Yorkies and their standard colored offspring can be shown.

So according to you if you cannot show them they are mixed breeds? OK then have it your way, explain the black and golds, black and tans, blue and gold, and so on. If you have it your way then any of those colors on any of the Yorkies in the the world are mixed breeds because they cannot be shown in the ring. How about the blues?? Are they purebred or mixed?

I for one am happy there is a club that accepts all registered Yorkies and their owners/breeders/exhibitors/enthusiast. To know you can ask questions and not be treated like the waste on the bottom a boot would be nice. To have a civil conversation about the breed that you are so passionate about and not feel like you have to pretend to be someone you are not. To get an honest opinion about your breeding line and where you are going with it from an experienced show person that will foster you and not beat you down is needed. Like was said here by an experienced exhibitor, some handlers could show a dead cat and win. The other side of the coin that is not mentioned much is you could bring a show stopper in the ring and not even place if you dont know the right people or take the judge out to dinner the night before.
If you do not want to join or learn about the club then dont. But let the ones that do want to hear more about it have a place to know.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Elle

I wasn't mocking you. You asked if a blanket question.

Like thousands of others I do not believe what you believe is just something that showed up in genetics over night. There's a reason that you are fighting so hard, I sincerely do think you are a strong crusader. But I see something you don't. I look at those dogs and I see a mixed breed.

If they were a form of the breed they would be in our confirmation events. No questions asked. You wouldn't have to fight this fight. But I see a maltese, s**tzu and maybe others. It is no different to me. I LOVE ALL DOGS!!!!! So it's nothing unkind for me to say this. But hearing people call my breed a TRADITIONAL?

Yes there are many parti breeds out there. Just not in yorkies. It's just a few people that are breeding some mix breeds that are way over priced.

There is talk about white yorkies inb some of the earliest documents on the breed

Wildwier Kennels told the AKC there their line had produced way more partis than the Nikko line. How, when or where it happened no one knows. But back before the yorkie became the yorkie many breeds were being shown under the broken haird Scottish terriers, including the maltese.

The peasants that owned these dogs were not concerned with who their dogs were mating with.

I really thought that we had gotten beyond the question of whether or not they are pure bred yorkies.

The AKC set oiut a letter that they were satisfied that the parti is a natural occuring color in the Yorkies.

So whether you believe it or not, doesn't really matter. Documentation indicates that is more likely than not that they are pure bred yorkies.

Would you prefer they be called Standard colored? Or perhaps Classic or Originals. it's just a term that is used to distinguish betwween the various colors without going into a long explanation.

A rose by another name smells just as sweet.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by yorkiegirl2

Yes, you would call this Co Owning.
Done all the time in the show world.

Disqusting ???
Maybe to pet owners.
Most don't know the half of what go on behind closed door in the show world.

You got that right. Ethics gone missing. All is fair in love war and the show ring