Question?

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985

I didn't mean health, I meant job. I know their hair can't be detrimental to their health, but like you said, these little guys are terriers and I wonder how much the long coat gets in the way of digging, burying, chasing, and all that good stuff I see Kaji do. I understand everything you said, and I'm sorry I didn't make my post clear. I just imagined in my head a beautiful long coated yorkie running around and being active like a dog should be. I just wonder how matted and uncomfortable that may be. I didn't mean to insinuate that the standard was hurting yorkies.

I know you didn't insinuate, but as others have mentioned, certain breed's standards are actually causing their health problems, and I just wanted to point out the fact that this isn't so with the Yorkshire terrier breed. Yay!

Joey had a long coat for three years and I don't think it got in the way of much. I only noticed it being damaged when he started playing regularly with a Shih Tzu who has the habit of pawing Joey's back. I imagine if you were using a dog in tunnels for rat chasing you would keep it clipped. Don't know if they do that any more, I have a feeling Joey would love the job. The one good thing about long hair breeds is not so much that they have long hair, it’s the fact that they don't have a double coat, which makes them more suitable for allergy sufferers.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985

How cute! Tea bags. I've always wondered what the extra care was for such long coats. I'm glad you allow your show dogs to be dogs too!

I wouldn't have it any other way! I currently show Radar and his ear hair is to the floor and we got about 3 inches before his mustach is to the floor. He's a dog and I treat him as such! He plays, goes outside gets sticks in his hair but it's always in good condition

Donna

[maggiesmom_2007]

[QUOTE=Nancy1999;3166506]I know you didn't insinuate, but as others have mentioned, certain breed's standards are actually causing their health problems, and I just wanted to point out the fact that this isn't so with the Yorkshire terrier breed. Yay!



Nancy this is one thing I am very happy about. I grew up with German shepards and I loved the way they looked when, but I see how they look now and even not knowing the standard for that breed I can see they don't look right. I asked a show person why they were like that and not like the ones I had growing up and she basically said the ones I had growing up must have been just pets because this is the way they are supposed to look like. It really makes me sad to see this. This is also the reasoning for me not commenting on alot of these posts we have had lately. It just pisses me off, Especially when you have responsible breeders trying to uphold the standard and do testing to make sure they have a healthy litter and then something goes wrong. Then you have "Joe Blow" not doing anything but putting 2 dogs together and they have a nice healthy litter. If I posted how I felt I would surely get kicked off the forum, so I stay silent. At least on here.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by maggiesmom_2007

Nancy this is one thing I am very happy about. I grew up with German shepards and I loved the way they looked when, but I see how they look now and even not knowing the standard for that breed I can see they don't look right. I asked a show person why they were like that and not like the ones I had growing up and she basically said the ones I had growing up must have been just pets because this is the way they are supposed to look like. It really makes me sad to see this. This is also the reasoning for me not commenting on alot of these posts we have had lately. It just pisses me off, Especially when you have responsible breeders trying to uphold the standard and do testing to make sure they have a healthy litter and then something goes wrong. Then you have "Joe Blow" not doing anything but putting 2 dogs together and they have a nice healthy litter. If I posted how I felt I would surely get kicked off the forum, so I stay silent. At least on here.

Yeah, it's only in the last few years that I learned about German Shepard's, it make me sick too, what a beautiful dog they are destroying, and by the club who has promised to protect it! I don't know both sides of the story, but if even half of what they are saying is true, it's really horrible, I hope the breed club will come to it's senses and modify standard, because structure plays such an important role in the overall health of a dog. I'm not sure how many people realize some of the problems some breeds are having. So many breeders seem to think, "If it was wrong, nature wouldn't allow you to do it". There is such an awesome responsibility that comes with breeding, I just don't think many people realize what a responsibility it is, and how much an impact their decision to breed has on others, not just the first generation, but on and on.

[gemy]

Now as a "potential" working dog breeder - and working bred breeder. I agree with much that has been posted. In the working/herding/hound breeds, there is often/usually a specific tasks or set of tasks this breed was bred to do.

Many might disagree with me, but as an obedience competitior as well as show ring competitor, I feel that in my breed the dog in the show ring is not able to convey to the judge just what and how good they are as a working dog, able to do the tasks that they were assigned/bred to do. The judge can look at and feell the conformation of the dog, but is "hamstrung" I feel to determine if the dog has the "willingness" to do what they were bred to do. One often repeated criticism is that dogs in the show rings are "overweight" and or under conditioned. Perhaps as in only one of our specialities the Russian Specialty judge in 100 degree weather no less, made us run around a large ring three times. This will give some idea of conditioning, but not necessarily some idea of how willing they will be and how adept they will be in doing their breed specific tasks. We have a short coupled dog, bred to guard and protect in a pretty specific way, yet all the time despite our breed standard, I see judges put up dogs too long, dogs with weak rears, dogs who move like a light bodied terrier would. Not what our breed should move like or look like.

Working instinct is also passed down from parents to puppies. If the parents and grandparents and great grandparents never earned working titles, (of all the various sorts there are) then how much over time will the mere instinct get diluted?.

So a breeder who wants great working ability and temperament who also wants to "show" has a great challenge. Not only will you keep your dogs in show coat condition, but you must work with your mating dogs, earn the working titles. That is a whole lot of time money and energy. But so very worth it.

This breeder might take a poorer ear set, or lighter black coat, to breed if that dog has excellent proven working abilities. Of course no good working dog can last long, without sound bone and structure, and health checks are necessary and mandatory.

Herein speaks the passion of the working breed owner/exhibitor/breeder.

For Yorkies, these beautifull, gusty little terriers, may not need to do what they were originally bred for but... those instincts can be honed and trained in a variety of ways, agility, tracking, therapy dogs, obedience. They are so much more than lapdogs. I like Donna treat my Razz man as a dog. He is going to agility, we swim, we do obedience (or at least try too:-), to some detriment to his coat.

These dogs are so much more than lapdogs. Although I do love having Razz man on my lap!.

[Cha Cha]

Originally Posted by gemy

So a breeder who wants great working ability and temperament who also wants to "show" has a great challenge. Not only will you keep your dogs in show coat condition, but you must work with your mating dogs, earn the working titles. That is a whole lot of time money and energy. But so very worth it.

This breeder might take a poorer ear set, or lighter black coat, to breed if that dog has excellent proven working abilities. Of course no good working dog can last long, without sound bone and structure, and health checks are necessary and mandatory.

I think a breeder of working class dogs, truly interested in both aspects of showing, conformation and working classes, would be more likely to maintain separate dogs for their perspective classes rather than have one dog that does it all, much for the reasons you stated, and wouldn't, isn't, that true for Yorkies? I don't see one way or the other as a fault to the breed. I see conformation classes as a visual example of what the breed should look like or standard if you will. If you are looking for a physical example of what the breed can and does do, you obviously are going to be looking at different dogs in a different setting. I do think it is possible to have one dog that does it all, but I think that is the exception, not the rule. A champions is a champion in their perspective field for what they were bred or trained to do and in the setting they are doing it in.

[YorkieRose]

Hasn't the UK KC changed some of the standards...ie Bulldogs because the heads were too large for free whelping...show breeders like big heads.

[CJxDanielle]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

Hasn't the UK KC changed some of the standards...ie Bulldogs because the heads were too large for free whelping...show breeders like big heads.

I don't know if it was the UKC but I heard sometime after BBC aired "Pedigree Dogs Exposed" some registry thought of changing the Bulldog standard to make the breed longer legged and make the muzzle "less scrunched". But that was some time ago (like a year) and I haven't heard or seen any changes.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Cha Cha

I think a breeder of working class dogs, truly interested in both aspects of showing, conformation and working classes, would be more likely to maintain separate dogs for their perspective classes rather than have one dog that does it all, much for the reasons you stated, and wouldn't, isn't, that true for Yorkies? I don't see one way or the other as a fault to the breed. I see conformation classes as a visual example of what the breed should look like or standard if you will. If you are looking for a physical example of what the breed can and does do, you obviously are going to be looking at different dogs in a different setting. I do think it is possible to have one dog that does it all, but I think that is the exception, not the rule. A champions is a champion in their perspective field for what they were bred or trained to do and in the setting they are doing it in.

I agree that it is difficult but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. What then is a conformation championship if only based on looks alone? Surely any breed should be judged for the totality of what is that breed. Not necessarily in the conformation ring, but in the venues of performance that is breed specific. So in the conformation ring, "as the judge" you judge adults with breed specific performance titles, and know that this dog can "do" what the breed was bred to do, now you can judge how "pretty is the dog", their temperament (to a degree), their movement, their colour, their bite, etc etc. Or as other countries do, you may require certain working titles before the final Conformation championship is earned.

[CJxDanielle]

Originally Posted by gemy

Or as other countries do, you may require certain working titles before the final Conformation championship is earned.

I love the countries that do that!
Its not just looks alone that make the dog standard, its also if the dog can do what it was originally bred to do.

I think the AKC (as well as other registries) should start modeling themselves after that system.

[CJxDanielle]

decided to bump because i loved the replies so much!

[Disney]

Well our working dogs are bred very differently to what we consider our pet dogs. Our working dog are pet but they don't come inside. However they hate come inside! They cry at the door to get out lol.

[red98vett]

Great questions and replies - I am NOT a breeder but my tiny addition to this thread is for people to THINK before breeding, the dog population has exploded and there's just way too many out there breeding for profit without really caring about health issues - breed standard or what they're contributing to the shelter and illness problems we're seeing each and every day.

has anyone ever wondered why the Sick and Emergency section is so busy ? Much is due to bad breeding - liver shunt is one of the most prevelant and it's up to those who breed to do their research and ask themselves the hard question - why am I doing this ? Am I helping the breed or trying to make a fast buck ?

There are many breeders who are absolutely into the lines and health - those are the ones who should be commended - not those who want to throw 2 dogs together to get cute puppies and sell

and no - I totally wish people would not mix breeds. Shelters are full and mills run rampant - we have to start trying to solve the problems not add to them

[Disney]

The thing I should mention about the working breeders I know. They breed purely for health. Not looks. I've known one of their dogs to live to twenty five and it was the ugliest thing you ever see.

[red98vett]

Originally Posted by Disney

The thing I should mention about the working breeders I know. They breed purely for health. Not looks. I've known one of their dogs to live to twenty five and it was the ugliest thing you ever see.

25 years old ? WOW - that's a very long lifespan - How was the dog at that age physically ?