Question?

[Nancy1999]

Great thread, I really feel like there are plenty of pets available, and if someone is looking for a pet to love, there are plenty in need of good homes. If you are interested in a particular breed, and want to show your support for the breed, you should find the best breeder you can. When you buy a dog, you are saying that you endorse someone's breeding program and what they are trying to achieve, therefore, I hope puppy buyers think twice before buying dogs from breeders who are merely supplying pets. Look to those breeders who are protecting and preserving the breed you love. Remember, it's not about just owning a beautiful example of the breed; it's about supporting great breeders.

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by shodanusmc

I am not a breeder, but totally agree. I would only buy from a Reputable breeder, and I would want it from the best of the rest.

Yeap and That's what she said

[gemy]

I would like to say the practice of putting pets together to Breed is not Breeding at all. There should be no such thing as a Pet Breeder, if that term means breeding indiscriminately with no health checks, no proper testing of the litter, no proper screening of homes to potential buyers, no enduring support of the purchaser of one of your pups, breeding of non champion and non standard Yorkies.

Not every puppy in any litter no matter the quality of the breeding will turn out to be "show" quality pups, but they should turn out to be healthy good representatives of the breed. Maybe a bit larger than standard, or an earset that is not correct, or a coat not of the true silk or colour, but well put together, easily identifiable as that breed. The temperament true to the Yorkie.

I would not support any seller who purports to "supply" the pet market.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by CJxDanielle

I have a question for some of you, I noticed yesterday that there was a person who posted about the breeding of a Yorkie and a Dachshund, and I noticed how many of you didn't agree and expressed that to her openly (I agreed 100% with that fact that the breeding should have never taken place) but I've also noticed that a lot of people her breed their pet Yorkies (accidents on occasion but a lot of you breed on purpose).

I know there is a difference between the breeding of mutts vs. the breeding of purebreds but the fact that some people here do breed there pets that don't follow up with the breed standard has got to have been noticed, shelters aren't just filled with mutts you know. I for one am the person that if your dog isn't standard then it shouldn't be bred. Working bred dogs are an exception for me though.

I just wanted to know the YT breeders take on this? Do you agree with the breeding of non-standard pet yorkies? I for one don't, but just wanted to here from both sides of the fence as to why you do or don't agree.

Just wondering why working breed dogs are an exception for you?

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by gemy

Not every puppy in any litter no matter the quality of the breeding will turn out to be "show" quality pups, but they should turn out to be healthy good representatives of the breed.

This is such a good point. I am glad you brought it up.

[YorkieRose]

Correct me if I am off base..but wouldn't it be very important for all purebred dogs to adhere to their standards...especially a working dog. They need to be well put together in structure, coat and temprament to endure the working life.
A GSD with bad hips would make an awful police dog as would a herding dog in a cold climate with a thin, sparse coat...just a thought.

[CJxDanielle]

Originally Posted by gemy

Just wondering why working breed dogs are an exception for you?

Working bred (not working breeds) is the exception to me because there are alot of breed out there that I feel are being bred out of the original purpose and some that are being bred with what I call deformities.

Take American Bred GSDs for example. They are being bred with that huge "slope" in their toplines causing hip and elbow problems all because of the standard, which is effecting (negatively) their ability to work and perform there original purpose. Now take a look at the German Bred working GSDs. They have a much "straighter" topline, it therefore does not effect there ability to work and from what I have seen is a much healthier "version" of the GSD.

Now health testing would still need to be done but as far as I am concerned the German Bred Working GSD is not a "standard" according to the AKC but it can still perform the job it has been bred to do and much better than those who are standard showing American line GSDs.

Some people also argue about the Border Collie. I for one would much rather buy a Border Collie from working lines than show lines. I know many breeders who do not show and there BCs are not standard show BCs but are working BCs (that do the job well I might add) and are health tested. They perform regularly at herding and agility trials but are not in any conformation shows.

I know alot of BC breeders who do not like the "show" BC and would much rather have a working BC. I just had a friend who bought a beautiful sable BC puppy from working lines (and she is not standard) but it wouldn't matter because the dog will not be used for show but for herding and agility.

I hope what I am saying is making since to you. I'm not sure I can explain it any other way.

[YorkieRose]

Interesting post...I see your point!

[gemy]

Originally Posted by CJxDanielle

Working bred (not working breeds) is the exception to me because there are alot of breed out there that I feel are being bred out of the original purpose and some that are being bred with what I call deformities.

Take American Bred GSDs for example. They are being bred with that huge "slope" in their toplines causing hip and elbow problems all because of the standard, which is effecting (negatively) their ability to work and perform there original purpose. Now take a look at the German Bred working GSDs. They have a much "straighter" topline, it therefore does not effect there ability to work and from what I have seen is a much healthier "version" of the GSD.

Now health testing would still need to be done but as far as I am concerned the German Bred Working GSD is not a "standard" according to the AKC but it can still perform the job it has been bred to do and much better than those who are standard showing American line GSDs.

Some people also argue about the Border Collie. I for one would much rather buy a Border Collie from working lines than show lines. I know many breeders who do not show and there BCs are not standard show BCs but are working BCs (that do the job well I might add) and are health tested. They perform regularly at herding and agility trials but are not in any conformation shows.

I know alot of BC breeders who do not like the "show" BC and would much rather have a working BC. I just had a friend who bought a beautiful sable BC puppy from working lines (and she is not standard) but it wouldn't matter because the dog will not be used for show but for herding and agility.

I hope what I am saying is making since to you. I'm not sure I can explain it any other way.

It does make sense to me. I have both a Working Breed and a Working Bred dog. I do know of the conflict with the BC and also for the GSD as well as the German Shepherds..

The problem is not only with the standard whether it be AKC or CKC, but with the fact that working breeds and these include all the herding group, sight hounds, etc, in fact almost all breeds but a true toy/companion breed, is that there are no appropriate breed working titles required before conformation championship is awarded. Other countries do it differently.

The standard would sort it self out in relatively short order if working titles must be earned prior to a conformation CH awarded.

There is almost always a good and sound reason why original standards were created, they usually tried to represent in words the structure of the dog and the temperament necessary to do what the breed was bred to do.

[CJxDanielle]

Originally Posted by gemy

There is almost always a good and sound reason why original standards were created, they usually tried to represent in words the structure of the dog and the temperament necessary to do what the breed was bred to do.

Everything but this I agree with

Seeing as you the know GSD and BC conflict you also know the original dogs, they are being bred FAR difference than the original standard was back when the breeds first came into existence. GSDs did not have the sloping topline or a GSD with a severe roach-back topline (I've never seen one of those herd) yet it is perfectly within standard.

I can't exactly put the BC into the words I want because the only experience I've had with them was through friends, I've never experienced the breed myself.

Also what about basset hounds? they were not originally bred with such short legs or so many wrinkles. Yet somehow they end up that way and I rarely see any bassets that look like that hunt.

And Neapolitan Mastiffs? I've yet to see what the creation was bred for. To see a dog such as that is a crime.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by CJxDanielle

Also what about basset hounds? they were not originally bred with such short legs or so many wrinkles. Yet somehow they end up that way and I rarely see any bassets that look like that hunt.

Mmm...that's not entirely correct. They actually were originally bred that way. There were actually two breeders who founded the breed--one breeder produced dogs that had more prominant eyes, a rounder skull and less 'wrinkles,' as you put it, and were bred by a French Breeder. This line of Bassets eventually became known as Basset Artésien Normand. Not recognized by the AKC, but still prominant in Europe. Shortly after, the 2nd breeder imported these dogs to England and began breeding them. The They were bred to resemble what we recognize today--larger ears, shorter legs and longer ears and became known as Basset Hounds. The Bassets that were originally imported from the US were from these lines, which is why this is what we typically see in Bassets today. They originated as one in the same, but are now actually 2 separate breeds. Typically, well bred Bassets who have the rounder skull and more prominant eyes can be traced back to having more of the French Normand lines.

[Lily del Chiesa]

Originally Posted by CJxDanielle

And Neapolitan Mastiffs? I've yet to see what the creation was bred for. To see a dog such as that is a crime.

And you won't here in the states especially since the AKC has recognized them. They are being bred here with too much emphasis on "cosmetics". One example is wrinkle. So much so, that quite a few end up having to get eye lifts so that they can see The breed should not have have excessive connective tissue from their skin to their muscles- it's supposed to be loose, but COME ON.

I've seen too many breeds over the years become recognized by the AKC then a bunch of BYB's jump on the band wagon thinking they're going to get rich quick and within a very short time, the breed changes so drastically, from one end of the spectrum to the other, and is a mere shadow what the dog was bred for in the first place. My grandparents raised GSDs for over 20 years and I completely agree with the OP- the majority are about useless as far as what they were bred for originally- still intelligent for the most part but health & structure-wise, they no where near what they were and should still be today. You see very few "correct" GSDs these days, which is sad as well as an outrage.

My Neos come from true working lines and are imported- all 4 of them (at the moment lol) and they WORK. They come from flock, estate and vineyard guardians (not from the past but currently working) as well as family members. I entrust my livestock to them- they lay down in the pastures and watch for predators or uninvited "guests". They have natural protective/guardian instincts without being "Crazy psycho dog" aggressive

These are just a few of the reasons as to why I refuse to register mine with AKC but stay with the parent registry. This is why when I decide to breed one of my females, I do so with temperament, working ability and "healthy" true confirmation as priorities. So what if I can't run obedience or agility through AKC for points and recognition (I could if I transferred over to the AKC)- They are excellent family dogs, love the tasks that are asked of them and put on quite a show whenever they are working in open agility or obedience (such hams at times lol) My guys and gals are healthy, happy, intelligent and true to the European standard from which they origited.


Please don't take this response as "having a tone" I'm just stating my opinion and have really enjoyed this thread

[CJxDanielle]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Mmm...that's not entirely correct. They actually were originally bred that way. There were actually two breeders who founded the breed--one breeder produced dogs that had more prominant eyes, a rounder skull and less 'wrinkles,' as you put it, and were bred by a French Breeder. This line of Bassets eventually became known as Basset Artésien Normand. Not recognized by the AKC, but still prominant in Europe. Shortly after, the 2nd breeder imported these dogs to England and began breeding them. The They were bred to resemble what we recognize today--larger ears, shorter legs and longer ears and became known as Basset Hounds. The Bassets that were originally imported from the US were from these lines, which is why this is what we typically see in Bassets today. They originated as one in the same, but are now actually 2 separate breeds. Typically, well bred Bassets who have the rounder skull and more prominant eyes can be traced back to having more of the French Normand lines.

Well don't I learn something new everyday!

[CJxDanielle]

Originally Posted by Lily del Chiesa

My Neos come from true working lines and are imported- all 4 of them (at the moment lol) and they WORK. They come from flock, estate and vineyard guardians (not from the past but currently working) as well as family members. I entrust my livestock to them- they lay down in the pastures and watch for predators or uninvited "guests". They have natural protective/guardian instincts without being "Crazy psycho dog" aggressive

These are just a few of the reasons as to why I refuse to register mine with AKC but stay with the parent registry. This is why when I decide to breed one of my females, I do so with temperament, working ability and "healthy" true confirmation as priorities. So what if I can't run obedience or agility through AKC for points and recognition (I could if I transferred over to the AKC)- They are excellent family dogs, love the tasks that are asked of them and put on quite a show whenever they are working in open agility or obedience (such hams at times lol) My guys and gals are healthy, happy, intelligent and true to the European standard from which they origited.


Please don't take this response as "having a tone" I'm just stating my opinion and have really enjoyed this thread

Oh No! I see no tone in your voice at all, in fact I absolutely love what you just said! Its just its a crime what people are turning them into just for the look of the breed. Its harming them rather than helping, and people still keep breeding them with such "defects" that some neos are lucky to see past the age of 7 years.
I think its wonderful that you are breeding for health and not cosmetic purposes, its insures the the breed is doing what it was ORIGINALLY bred for and the rest (agility, obedience, rally) doesn't matter. Its the original purpose that should come first, standards should follow.

Another example I can think of is the English Bulldog. When an animal can't even reproduce safely on its own. Well, that calls for some consideration in the standard.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by CJxDanielle

Well don't I learn something new everyday!

What can I say...I have a Basset. I felt like it was my responsibility to her to at least know where she came from. Plus, I do some work with BHRA, so I've picked up a lot along the way.

Don't worry...we all learn something new everyday. And you're much younger than the rest of us, so you just have some catching up to do.