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Old 06-09-2010, 05:23 PM   #1
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Default Puppy sale dilemma, weights question

Nearly 6 weeks ago my Molly had two beautiful puppies. A brown one weighing 2.8 oz and a white one weighing 3.9 oz. (they are Yorkie/Papillon).

We advertised the puppies and found buyers the week they were born, two women in their 50s, good friends. One owns a 4lb yorkie and the other one does not yet have a dog. We sold the puppies for $750 each, and received a $300 deposit on each of them at that time.

The parents of these puppies weigh 4.4lb and 4.5 lb and in the ad we placed for the puppies implied that they would most likely mature near the weights of the parents.

Here we are 6 weeks later and the white puppy weighs 18oz (right on track with what we expected) while the brown one has exploded to an unbelievable 28.6oz - he is off the growth charts and we estimate at this rate he will weigh 7lb full grown. The brown one walked sooner, had teeth earlier, and started eating softened puppy food sooner, it is as if he is a week or two ahead in his development.

As you can see we have a dilemma, I have informed the new mommy to be of his weight progress and she is unsure of her feelings toward this - she was wanting and expecting a dog around 5lb or less but was really looking forward to bringing this guy home - she was beginning to get quite attached to him.

Has anyone had a puppy that seemed to be quite ahead in development and then slowed back down to normal later on? or should I be expecting him to continue to grow way off the chart?
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Old 06-09-2010, 05:35 PM   #2
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Parents weight doesn't play to much of a role in the offspring, you must know about the other generations, not to mention they are not purebred so hard to tell what traits they will pick up from each breed.
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Old 06-09-2010, 05:39 PM   #3
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Parents weight doesn't play to much of a role in the offspring, you must know about the other generations, not to mention they are not purebred so hard to tell what traits they will pick up from each breed.
The grandparents on the yorkie/papillon side were 3lb and 5lb. On the only papillon side they were 4 lb and 6lb. NOBODY made it to 7 lb.
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Old 06-09-2010, 05:46 PM   #4
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The grandparents on the yorkie/papillon side were 3lb and 5lb. On the only papillon side they were 4 lb and 6lb. NOBODY made it to 7 lb.
Do you know the weights/growth for 3 generations? What about weight/size of other litters produce from the 3 generations? One can always have a pup on the larger size pulling from a few generations back. One of the main reasons to do all the research you can about the lines you are breeding.
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Old 06-09-2010, 05:47 PM   #5
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I think you should just be honest with the new puppy buyer (seems like you already are being!) and say that you really wont be able to determine the weight that this puppy will be full grown. Honestly, if 2 pounds is going to make such a difference to her, maybe she isnt the right home for your little one anyway. Good Luck! Would love to see pics of the little ones.
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Old 06-09-2010, 06:15 PM   #6
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The grandparents on the yorkie/papillon side were 3lb and 5lb. On the only papillon side they were 4 lb and 6lb. NOBODY made it to 7 lb.
It's still a mix of genetics. You need to go back farther than just parents and grandparents. Don't feel bad if the pup turns out to be bigger than you expected. He's a living breathing creature, and you can't expect them to follow charts.
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Old 06-09-2010, 06:15 PM   #7
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I think you should just be honest with the new puppy buyer (seems like you already are being!) and say that you really wont be able to determine the weight that this puppy will be full grown. Honestly, if 2 pounds is going to make such a difference to her, maybe she isnt the right home for your little one anyway. Good Luck! Would love to see pics of the little ones.
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Old 06-09-2010, 06:33 PM   #8
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I have raised pure breed yorkies, yorkiepoos, pure breed shih-tzus and shih-poos. For some reason breeding two different breeds together throws bigger puppies. It doesn't matter what sizes the parents and grandparents are when designing breeds.
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Old 06-09-2010, 08:21 PM   #9
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To prevent this problem in the future, why not wait to advertize when you know what you have...say about 12 weeks...

Last edited by YorkieRose; 06-09-2010 at 08:23 PM.
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Old 06-11-2010, 02:42 AM   #10
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i've always found that there is nothing more difficult than trying to predict adult size... the biggest pup in one of my litters until 7 weeks suddenly slowed down dramatically; i took her to the vet to get it checked out, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with her... she grew to her adult size by about 4-5 months and stopped- the others all grew steadily and made their predicted sizes- turns out shes just weird...
i know this is the opposite of your dilema, but still kinda the same...

im afraid i have to agree with armaniman; if 2lbs is making her aprehensive, then it doesnt seem to be the pup itself shes fallen for, but rather the size...
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Old 06-11-2010, 03:51 AM   #11
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Why is it so often so many breeders think that the pups will be similar to the parents when there is no way to guarantee this. There is so much that goes into the adult size of the pups. And most often these growth charts are not correct. You also must consider the siblings to the parents, grandparents.

And why breed for mixed breeds. Interesting that you bred these two together to never keep any of their offsprings.

It is not best to sell pups so young, since anything could have happened and had these prospected parents disappointed. Just let them both know - that you cannot guarantee size. They may even continue to grow up to a year or 2 years. There is just no way of being sure.
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Old 06-11-2010, 07:31 AM   #12
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One can never guarntee size unless you really know your lines and when breeding mixed breeds makes it even more complicated...and why sell a mixed breed for so much? Weight at an adult size is a guessimate at best especially breeding for mixed breeds.
Good luck

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Old 06-11-2010, 07:40 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklynn View Post
One can never guarntee size unless you really know your lines and when breeding mixed breeds makes it even more complicated...and why sell a mixed breed for so much? Weight at an adult size is a guessimate at best especially breeding for mixed breeds.
Good luck

Donna
You're so right Donna. A breeder should never guarantee an adult size. Even when line breeding yorkies. The first 3 generations are the biggest contributing factor into a pups make-up. But, breeding yorkies is very difficult as you can't breed pheno type to pheno type as you can in say poodles. Then in this case, this is a mixed breed.....all bets are off the table.

To the OP, my suggestion; if you have a contract addressing the deposit. Turn to that. If not, give the person back their deposit. It's better to place your pup in a loving stable home, where it's going to beloved, regardeless of size. If this lady is unsure, based on the size, I wouldn't want my pup in that home anyway. More than likely the pup will end up in rescue.
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Old 06-11-2010, 10:39 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklynn View Post
One can never guarntee size unless you really know your lines and when breeding mixed breeds makes it even more complicated...and why sell a mixed breed for so much? Weight at an adult size is a guessimate at best especially breeding for mixed breeds.
Good luck

Donna
I thought the same too Donna, but was holding my tongue. Wow, 750. for a mixed bred dog. I agree with Mary too - best to refund the deposit. When placing a pup, you really want to make sure they love the pup. If they are not connected to it and love it wholehearted they usually will not keep it.
Thank you OP for being honest. Sometime people just do not know.
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Old 06-12-2010, 06:13 AM   #15
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I agree with Donna and Mardelin (and the others) with regards to their replies. Personally, I love purebred dogs - if they are from good, stable lines, their looks (and weight) can be estimated. I think that the predictability of purebred dogs is a wonderful thing.

Before breeding any dog, you should ask yourself why are you doing it and if it isn't to improve the breed, you shouldn't breed. In this case, which breed are you trying to improve?

I'd suggest that you buy and read Ann Seranne's The Joy of Breeding your own Show Dog before you breed any more puppies. Not because I think you are a bad breeder, it's just a book that every breeder should breed.
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