What Not to Say to Your Breeder

[Marilize]

Originally Posted by shodanusmc

Agree. Do you also own a Boerbel?

Do you mean a Boerboel? Lol, no... I'm not really keen on big dogs and those are huge! Plus I'm not that Afrikaans

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by ChocoMilk

I thought it was rude when I saw posts with breeders rudely stating "if you haven't researched, you don't deserve a dog".

Oh wow...I would consider it rude to tell someone they didn't deserve a dog too. (With the exception of people who abuse their dogs or mistreat them, of course...in that case, I think it would be a fair statement.)
I've never seen anyone here told that because they don't know what questions to ask and what to look for. Not deserving of a dog, no. Not fully prepared to make and educated decision, yes. I think there is a big difference there, between not 'deseriving' something, and not being prepared and knowledgeable. I wouldn't consider it rude at all to see someone say, 'hey, you should really hold off on trying to buy a dog until you've done a little more research on the breed.'

I would never expect someone to be looked down on because they are not rich and I don't think that Yorkies are indulgences that should only be afforded by those who are. However, they come at a price. There are expenses to cover. And I don't think that when looking for a breeder, the price you are willing to pay should be the main focus of your search. I think there are other aspects that are more important than price. One needs to be aware of what expenses are being covered--breeding stock, registration fees, show costs (if any), medical testing, vaccinations, supplies, etc. If you can't afford the price it takes to cover those expenses, you don't just 'settle' for a lesser dog that someone cut corners on...you face the reality that maybe a Yorkie just isn't in your price range at the time and save up until it is.

[shodanusmc]

Originally Posted by Marilize

Do you mean a Boerboel? Lol, no... I'm not really keen on big dogs and those are huge! Plus I'm not that Afrikaans

Yes, Boerboel. I considered importing one from South Africa before I got Carlo, but it was hard to reference check the breeder. A quality Boerboel is a great companion/protector. Some of them make my Corso look small.

[shodanusmc]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Oh wow...I would consider it rude to tell someone they didn't deserve a dog too. (With the exception of people who abuse their dogs or mistreat them, of course...in that case, I think it would be a fair statement.)
I've never seen anyone here told that because they don't know what questions to ask and what to look for. Not deserving of a dog, no. Not fully prepared to make and educated decision, yes. I think there is a big difference there, between not 'deseriving' something, and not being prepared and knowledgeable. I wouldn't consider it rude at all to see someone say, 'hey, you should really hold off on trying to buy a dog until you've done a little more research on the breed.'

I would never expect someone to be looked down on because they are not rich and I don't think that Yorkies are indulgences that should only be afforded by those who are. However, they come at a price. There are expenses to cover. And I don't think that when looking for a breeder, the price you are willing to pay should be the main focus of your search. I think there are other aspects that are more important than price. One needs to be aware of what expenses are being covered--breeding stock, registration fees, show costs (if any), medical testing, vaccinations, supplies, etc. If you can't afford the price it takes to cover those expenses, you don't just 'settle' for a lesser dog that someone cut corners on...you face the reality that maybe a Yorkie just isn't in your price range at the time and save up until it is.

Agree, and that is when they sould perhaps consider adopting a Rescue pup, either Yorkie or one of the thousands of other dogs waiting for a good home.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by shodanusmc

Agree, and that is when they sould perhaps consider adopting a Rescue pup, either Yorkie or one of the thousands of other dogs waiting for a good home.

So true!
Even then rescues are not 'cheap' by any means. (Or lesser!) But the rehoming fee generally is considerably less and a great solution to several problems at once.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by ChocoMilk

Wow I'm really sorry but I think this is a little too much. Just because someone asked for the price first to see if it fits their budget does not mean that that they do not care for its health and the type of breeder you are. Because of breeders like this who react overly sensitive to certain questions I feel that most people just turn to petstores which promotes more puppymills. If you breeders would like to see the puppymill numbers go down, please stop assuming, lower your prices to sell without proft, and educate what they might not know instead of being offended and turning down potential great owners so that they don't just go along with what everyone else does- buying from a pet shop.

Selling for profit is an assumption you made without knowing how much I do sell my dogs for. And believe me they are much lower than what you pay for at a pet store. What I do sell my dogs for does not even begin to cover the costs, the required tests performed on each pup, vet checks, shots, proper feeding for dam and pups, rearing and socializing.

I'm not breeding dogs to sell, but for me, for my next Champion to add to my breeding program not to satisfy the pet market. I breed very minimally and the pups I do not keep have homes waiting for them before I ever proceed with a breeding.

[ChocoMilk]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Selling for profit is an assumption you made without knowing how much I do sell my dogs for. And believe me they are much lower than what you pay for at a pet store. What I do sell my dogs for does not even begin to cover the costs, the required tests performed on each pup, vet checks, shots, proper feeding for dam and pups, rearing and socializing.

I'm not breeding dogs to sell, but for me, for my next Champion to add to my breeding program not to satisfy the pet market. I breed very minimally and the pups I do not keep have homes waiting for them before I ever proceed with a breeding.

Again, I never assumed you were making a profit. I was asking all breeders to not assume that they are only caring about money when that's the first question asked, not sell the puppies for profit (IF they are), and educate others who may not know the importance of buying from a good breeder. So please don't assume yourself that I assumed you were selling at a profit. I don't and I'm sure you are a great breeder! thus getting offended at normal questions because they ARE your babies. I was just informing you that as a buyer, asking "price" first does not always mean not caring about the health and the breeder facts, etc. I personally think if I did the background check first and the available puppies and it just sounded so RIGHT, I would be heartbroken if it did was over $1600~$2000 (my budget). Asking price first saves me time and heartache and by no means am I a bad mother to my yorkies.

bamafan121: I think it's weird that you assume if someone asks the price first, they are willing to overlook other things that are important. As you have said,there are many many other factors that are just as important. Even if the price seemed right, if the breeder does not seem "ethical" or reputable, I would not recommend to buy from the breeder.

shodanumac: I also agree. The expenses should be covered when selling a puppy, and if a buyer cannot afford it, then should definitely look to adopt.

I think some of you were overlooking my statements here. I was merely stating that as breeders you should teach buyers on the importance of buying from a good breeder, NOT turning on them because an uneducated buyer asked the wrong questions (ex: Price first). That would lead them to just go purchase from a place you all have voiced hard to get rid of.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by ChocoMilk

Again, I never assumed you were making a profit. I was asking all breeders to not assume that they are only caring about money when that's the first question asked, not sell the puppies for profit (IF they are), and educate others who may not know the importance of buying from a good breeder. So please don't assume yourself that I assumed you were selling at a profit. I don't and I'm sure you are a great breeder! thus getting offended at normal questions because they ARE your babies. I was just informing you that as a buyer, asking "price" first does not always mean not caring about the health and the breeder facts, etc. I personally think if I did the background check first and the available puppies and it just sounded so RIGHT, I would be heartbroken if it did was over $1600~$2000 (my budget). Asking price first saves me time and heartache and by no means am I a bad mother to my yorkies.

bamafan121: I think it's weird that you assume if someone asks the price first, they are willing to overlook other things that are important. As you have said,there are many many other factors that are just as important. Even if the price seemed right, if the breeder does not seem "ethical" or reputable, I would not recommend to buy from the breeder.

shodanumac: I also agree. The expenses should be covered when selling a puppy, and if a buyer cannot afford it, then should definitely look to adopt.

I think some of you were overlooking my statements here. I was merely stating that as breeders you should teach buyers on the importance of buying from a good breeder, NOT turning on them because an uneducated buyer asked the wrong questions (ex: Price first). That would lead them to just go purchase from a place you all have voiced hard to get rid of.

Not overlooking your statements or assuming since you've quoted and addressed individual posts.

Asking all breeders not to assume that when a buyer is asking about money that's their primary concern, well unless you're a breeder and interviewing potential new families and understand the averages of such a question.....well I don't think it is something to ask of breeders. Most of us a pretty savy on how to read people and know how to determine when a puppy buyer is bargain hunting.

Most YTCA breeders primary concern when approached for a puppy is the puppy. Next is to educate. Most of us spend countless hours on the phone educating families on the breed and even if we don't have a puppy to place, we want the person to walk away from the conversation; armed with the all the best information to make the best possible choice in a breeder/puppy. Making the sale is not a priority.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by ChocoMilk

Thank you for the thorough answer. I think it may have answered all of my questions regarding the breeding costs. If a breeder does not sell for much profit, then I am by any means all for their set pricing even if it is high. If it exceeds any potential buyer's budget, they can probably find other breeders with less "champion-lines" and such so that they can find their right dog.

I am glad to know that you wouldn't judge a potential client from what they ask first. Most people are uneducated in this area, and for quiet some time I thought it was rude when I saw posts with breeders rudely stating "if you haven't researched, you don't deserve a dog". Just because a mother was not expecting a baby when she became pregnant does not mean that she will be a bad mother. Likewise, just be Howcause a family looking for a dog didn't know the "right set of questions" that won't tick them off, does not mean that they will be bad dog owners. In the end, what matters is that the puppies are placed in good homes and that general public is encouraged more and more to buy from caring breeders who are willing to inform them over pet stores.

In main I agree with your post. How-ever less champion "lines". less champions in the breeding pair, is not a solution for a Yorkie more reasonably priced for your budget. That solution is found in rescues, rehomes, etc.

If You Buy A Purebred dog, expect to Pay Top Dollar1 for it; and conversely expect for CH as breeding dam n sire, all the Health tests dog, a pup a prime example of the breed, with the best of health and the best of Health guarantee.

I do not support the idea, well if you only want a "Pet" it doesnt' matter about Ch's or health tests or some many other things. There is a right and wrong way to do things; quite simple really.

If you want a purebred, buy from reputable show breeders. Those that health test their pups, and stand behind them all the way. They will and should be there for you and your pup for the life of their pup. Mine are!

[Rhetts_mama]

Originally Posted by ChocoMilk

Again, I never assumed you were making a profit. I was asking all breeders to not assume that they are only caring about money when that's the first question asked, not sell the puppies for profit (IF they are), and educate others who may not know the importance of buying from a good breeder. So please don't assume yourself that I assumed you were selling at a profit. I don't and I'm sure you are a great breeder! thus getting offended at normal questions because they ARE your babies. I was just informing you that as a buyer, asking "price" first does not always mean not caring about the health and the breeder facts, etc. I personally think if I did the background check first and the available puppies and it just sounded so RIGHT, I would be heartbroken if it did was over $1600~$2000 (my budget). Asking price first saves me time and heartache and by no means am I a bad mother to my yorkies.

bamafan121: I think it's weird that you assume if someone asks the price first, they are willing to overlook other things that are important. As you have said,there are many many other factors that are just as important. Even if the price seemed right, if the breeder does not seem "ethical" or reputable, I would not recommend to buy from the breeder.

shodanumac: I also agree. The expenses should be covered when selling a puppy, and if a buyer cannot afford it, then should definitely look to adopt.

I think some of you were overlooking my statements here. I was merely stating that as breeders you should teach buyers on the importance of buying from a good breeder, NOT turning on them because an uneducated buyer asked the wrong questions (ex: Price first). That would lead them to just go purchase from a place you all have voiced hard to get rid of.

There is a saying that the cost of the dog is the least expensive part of pet ownership. If the up-front cost is what people are most concerned about, they definitely haven't given much thought to everything else. It always upsets me when people come on here and one of the first things they say is "I want a yorkie, but I can't afford the outrageous prices of the breeders around here, I only want to pay $400." Heck, I spent more than that during my first few well visits to the vet. Ideally, someone should have done some research BEFORE they start calling breeders. If some of them say it's a pet peeve of theirs to hear that first thing from a potential owner, I'm sure they have their reasons and years of experience to back it up. I think it's expecting a lot from them to tell them to try and educate people who couldn't be bothered to do some research first. JMO, but if price is the first consideration, thoughts of quality falls way down on the list.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by ChocoMilk

bamafan121: I think it's weird that you assume if someone asks the price first, they are willing to overlook other things that are important.

I didn't say they would be willing to overlook other things...I said it would seem to me that price, not those other things, was their main focus.

But in any event, you have stated the same thing--that lowering prices would be one way to discourage people from going to puppy mills. If price is a factor, then clearly by your logic, there ARE some people who are willing to overlook it so long as the price is right.

Originally Posted by ChocoMilk

If you breeders would like to see the puppymill numbers go down, please stop assuming, lower your prices to sell without proft,

I can't count the time I've seen someone say, "Where can I find a cheap Yorkies?" So mention of anything else at all. What does that suggest to you that their focus is?

Maybe it's just a difference of perception. But the way I see it, price should be way down on the list of requirements when choosing a breeder/dog.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Asking all breeders not to assume that when a buyer is asking about money that's their primary concern, well unless you're a breeder and interviewing potential new families and understand the averages of such a question.....well I don't think it is something to ask of breeders.

Mary--She is a breeder. She has a litter. I would think it inevitable that as she seeks homes for her pups (assuming that she does), she will experience this first hand, if she has not already. When you talk to people and the primary concern is always "How much do you sell them for? Are you willing to come off that price?" No bothering to find out what costs you are covering, what your standards are, etc etc. Well....it gets pretty irritating.

[BamaFan121s]

Strike my previous comment. I was mistaken. I saw a previous post where she mentioned her "puppies" and I mistook it for having a litter. My mistake and my apologies.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Not overlooking your statements or assuming since you've quoted and addressed individual posts.

Asking all breeders not to assume that when a buyer is asking about money that's their primary concern, well unless you're a breeder and interviewing potential new families and understand the averages of such a question.....well I don't think it is something to ask of breeders. Most of us a pretty savy on how to read people and know how to determine when a puppy buyer is bargain hunting.

Most YTCA breeders primary concern when approached for a puppy is the puppy. Next is to educate. Most of us spend countless hours on the phone educating families on the breed and even if we don't have a puppy to place, we want the person to walk away from the conversation; armed with the all the best information to make the best possible choice in a breeder/puppy. Making the sale is not a priority.

Mary I hear you! And I do spend hours on the phone educating about BRT;s. But still while there might be a flashing alarm sign in my head,m if the first question is about cost, and btw BRT's sell for $2500 and up for even a pet, I am much more concerned about who these people are, will they train, will they do the best as pet parents for this breed. And I do this education as well. Maybe because of the rare nature of my breed, I'm more used to people asking about the cost. Usally for most oncethey hear the cost, they go away. The danger for me, is if they say, umm okay when can I get one? That shivers me timbers. I've only bred once, and had the waiting list for Magic's pups. All folks I have met, who filled out the questionnaire, who are still in contact with me.

[shodanusmc]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

There is a saying that the cost of the dog is the least expensive part of pet ownership. If the up-front cost is what people are most concerned about, they definitely haven't given much thought to everything else. It always upsets me when people come on here and one of the first things they say is "I want a yorkie, but I can't afford the outrageous prices of the breeders around here, I only want to pay $400." Heck, I spent more than that during my first few well visits to the vet. Ideally, someone should have done some research BEFORE they start calling breeders. If some of them say it's a pet peeve of theirs to hear that first thing from a potential owner, I'm sure they have their reasons and years of experience to back it up. I think it's expecting a lot from them to tell them to try and educate people who couldn't be bothered to do some research first. JMO, but if price is the first consideration, thoughts of quality falls way down on the list.

You are so right on that. Medical Bills for Carlo is now aproaching $20,000, and I am guessing that Maxines bills over the years are around $5,000. That is around $25,000 for 2 dogs that combined cost around $3500. That does not inclufe a $7,000 fence, average food bills of around $150 a month, supplements, toys, and the initial damage casued by teething, and maxines peeing on Oriental and wool rugs to this day, and she is housebroken. Some idiots still tell me I should have put Carlo down. If one more person says it, I may just put them down.