honest question to breeders

[QuickSilver]

Thanks for reading the article.

Different rescues have different policies.

The reason I disagree with your cigarette analogy is that in an ideal world, no one litters. However, in an ideal world, there will still be breeders supplying pets to loving, stable homes. How would it work if all breeders simply stopped breeding until there were no more pets in shelters? The only breeding would be accidental, and presumably the average age of a dog would go way up. So I think we have to draw a distinction between careful and indiscriminate breeders. My definition of a great breeder is:

- Someone who first and foremost cares about the health of her dogs.

- Will take any surrendered animal back into her home. This is an incredible commitment when you think about it - imagine how many dogs you are potentially responsible for over say, a fifteen year period.

- Sells on a mandatory s/n contract.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

How would it work if all breeders simply stopped breeding until there were no more pets in shelters?

In an ideal world where everything worked as we wanted it to, we could stand on boxes and scream "no one buy a dog, only adopt from shelters until they are all gone." Everyone would take the advice, do just that, no one would breed and the problem would be solved. But we don't exists in an "ideal" world and never will. It's a great theory and dream, but that's about as far as it gets.

If people prefer to have a purebred Yorkie, from a breeder, rather than adopting from a shelter, then that is their choice to make and it's up to them to decide what is the best fit for their home. Resuces are not always a good fit to every home and lifestyle and that's something we all have to judge for ourselves. To be honest, insinuating that it is "selfish" is very narrow minded and insulting. If you truly are 'not looking for a fight' and just trying to look at other perspectives, then referring to differing preferences as "selfish" is probably not the best way to go.

[LuvMyPuppE]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

In an ideal world where everything worked as we wanted it to, we could stand on boxes and scream "no one buy a dog, only adopt from shelters until they are all gone." Everyone would take the advice, do just that, no one would breed and the problem would be solved. But we don't exists in an "ideal" world and never will. It's a great theory and dream, but that's about as far as it gets.

If people prefer to have a purebred Yorkie, from a breeder, rather than adopting from a shelter, then that is their choice to make and it's up to them to decide what is the best fit for their home. Resuces are not always a good fit to every home and lifestyle and that's something we all have to judge for ourselves. To be honest, insinuating that it is "selfish" is very narrow minded and insulting. If you truly are 'not looking for a fight' and just trying to look at other perspectives, then referring to differing preferences as "selfish" is probably not the best way to go.

and so it began.

i think you missed some very crucial words that accompanied the word "selfish."

"i felt like the animals already alive (and about to die) were more important than my selfish desire for a purebred yorkie."

i never said anything about anyone else's choice, and i've said repeatedly that i do want a yorkie, but I am waiting to see if my "right fit" could be one of those thousands of yorkies already needing homes. that doesn't mean i'd take the first one needing to be rescued. it also doesn't mean i won't end up buying one from a breeder. i don't see how my personal search is insulting to anyone else.

furthermore, the OT wasn't about rescues vs. breeders, but since a breeder mentioned the fact that there are so many yorkies needing homes, it brings up those questions. i'm not anti-breeding, but it sounds a little contradictory to ME for one to say he or she breeds to cut down on the number of homeless animals. i also think the "i only contribute a few so it doesn't really matter" mentality is dangerous. it's the same way intentional and unintentional backyard breeders think as well - and look where that's gotten us.

[BonBon]

To the OP: I honestly don't have the words to say all of I what feel about this thread. You have asked some excellent, thought provoking questions. I am impressed with how much thought you've put into this (& I know you have because I've thought of several of the same points you make here, but you make even more that I haven't thought about). You also seem to have a realistic yet positive view of pups in rescue and I thank you for that as well. Overall, I guess my point is - GREAT THREAD!!! It's given me a lot of stuff to think about.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by LuvMyPuppE

and so it began.

i think you missed some very crucial words that accompanied the word "selfish."

"i felt like the animals already alive (and about to die) were more important than my selfish desire for a purebred yorkie."

i never said anything about anyone else's choice, and i've said repeatedly that i do want a yorkie, but I am waiting to see if my "right fit" could be one of those thousands of yorkies already needing homes. that doesn't mean i'd take the first one needing to be rescued. it also doesn't mean i won't end up buying one from a breeder. i don't see how my personal search is insulting to anyone else.

furthermore, the OT wasn't about rescues vs. breeders, but since a breeder mentioned the fact that there are so many yorkies needing homes, it brings up those questions. i'm not anti-breeding, but it sounds a little contradictory to ME for one to say he or she breeds to cut down on the number of homeless animals. i also think the "i only contribute a few so it doesn't really matter" mentality is dangerous. it's the same way intentional and unintentional backyard breeders think as well - and look where that's gotten us.

Now this is only my opinion and please don't take any offense but from your postings I feel you should look for your perfect animal from the shelters and rescue and give them a home instead of that purebred. It seems to me from your postings since you feel you would be selfish then by all means stay with shelters and rescues so you won't feel guilty about purchasing from a breeder when the others you feel you could save their life.
As for the "I" contribute a few is NOT a dangerous mentality within a show breeders home. We know BYB's do not produce a few or they wouldn't be BYB"s and doing it for money.
You continue to say you are not anti-breeders but for some reason of course in my opinion only you are....
I haven't had a litter in 2 years and looks like it won't be for another year or so that I will have another litter so I guess I'm not supplying the pet population and yes I'm show exhibitor and sometime breeder so I don't think my intent or unintent is a dangerous one

Donna

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by LuvMyPuppE

please don't take offense to it

Originally Posted by LuvMyPuppE

i'm just playing devil's advocate

Originally Posted by LuvMyPuppE

i'm not trying to have an argument

Originally Posted by LuvMyPuppE

<puts on helmet and gloves>

Seems like a pretty good indicator that from the start of the thread you were aware that you were hitting on some topics that had the potential to offend. So I'm not sure why you are so surprised that someone would bring it up. Disclaimers only get you so far. I have enjoyed this thread for the most part, find it very thought provoking.

Futhermore, you also seemed to have missed the bigger point of my post, only focusing on one part for argument's sake.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Seems like a pretty good indicator that from the start of the thread you were aware that you were hitting on some topics that had the potential to offend. So I'm not sure why you are so surprised that someone would bring it up.

Futhermore, you also seemed to have missed the bigger point of my post, only focusing on one part for argument's sake.

putting helmet and gloves on was funny to me LOL....as if she were ready....I think so far we've stayed on topic and I don't see any arguments as of yet and I think there shouldn't be any reason to argue...I'm just going to say I feel that she wants one and not getting it but again it's only my opinion
I could be wrong and if I am I apologize but that is what I'm getting from the quotes you posted Love ya bama!

Donna

[LuvMyPuppE]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

Now this is only my opinion and please don't take any offense but from your postings I feel you should look for your perfect animal from the shelters and rescue and give them a home instead of that purebred. It seems to me from your postings since you feel you would be selfish then by all means stay with shelters and rescues so you won't feel guilty about purchasing from a breeder when the others you feel you could save their life.
As for the "I" contribute a few is NOT a dangerous mentality within a show breeders home. We know BYB's do not produce a few or they wouldn't be BYB"s and doing it for money.
You continue to say you are not anti-breeders but for some reason of course in my opinion only you are....
I haven't had a litter in 2 years and looks like it won't be for another year or so that I will have another litter so I guess I'm not supplying the pet population and yes I'm show exhibitor and sometime breeder so I don't think my intent or unintent is a dangerous one

Donna

money isn't something anyone wants to talk about, but it's a definite factor as well. if it weren't, there wouldn't be dogs for sale for thousands of dollars when a puppy clearly doesn't cost near as much to care for as they as sold for.

again, when an animal breeds (any animal) whether the breeding is intentional or not - it DOES contribute to the pet population.

if someone breeds and does it because they just want to or like to, or even if it is for money - so be it. that's their prerogative and more respectable in my opinion.

but to say you breed to help out the population problem is like saying you overeat because there are people starving.

[WinstonMom]

I don't think that any of the breeders that have responded said that they "breed to help out the population problem". Your original question was why do so many breeders sell their puppies with spay/neuter agreements. You have been given many answers to this question, controlling the population problem was only one of the answers to the question.

Audrey

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by LuvMyPuppE

money isn't something anyone wants to talk about, but it's a definite factor as well. if it weren't, there wouldn't be dogs for sale for thousands of dollars when a puppy clearly doesn't cost near as much to care for as they as sold for.

again, when an animal breeds (any animal) whether the breeding is intentional or not - it DOES contribute to the pet population.

if someone breeds and does it because they just want to or like to, or even if it is for money - so be it. that's their prerogative and more respectable in my opinion.

but to say you breed to help out the population problem is like saying you overeat because there are people starving.

I overeat sometimes but it's not because others are starving LOL, it's because I like to eat LOL...

As I stated in my post it's very obivious that you are not for breeders and will continue to see it the way you do regardless of how many times we repeat ourselves and honestly that is your right and ok with me because I just happen to have a different view of how I see things.
If the intent on your part is to get a rise out of anyone it won't be me and from the looks of it no one else has gone out of their way to show offense or frustration with some of your posts! WTG YT!!!

Donna

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by WinstonMom

I don't think that any of the breeders that have responded said that they "breed to help out the population problem". Your original question was why do so many breeders sell their puppies with spay/neuter agreements. You have been given many answers to this question, controlling the population problem was only one of the answers to the question.

Audrey

You know Audrey, I could be wrong, but my gut feeling is that the OP wanted something more out of her orginal question....and I always go with my gut instincts

Donna

[LuvMyPuppE]

Originally Posted by bonbon

To the OP: I honestly don't have the words to say all of I what feel about this thread. You have asked some excellent, thought provoking questions. I am impressed with how much thought you've put into this (& I know you have because I've thought of several of the same points you make here, but you make even more that I haven't thought about). You also seem to have a realistic yet positive view of pups in rescue and I thank you for that as well. Overall, I guess my point is - GREAT THREAD!!! It's given me a lot of stuff to think about.

thank you for understanding!

i feel like they are legitimate questions that lots of people have. they may not ask them because of the backlash, however.

to the others: there really shouldn't be any offense taken because when one is confident in their responses, there is nothing anyone can say to insult what you know to be true. that's where disagreements come in because everyone has their own truth, but there shouldn't be any offense.

[Brooklynn]

To the OP...your orginal question was why sell on a spay/neuter contract....I do because I don't want what I work so hard for falling into the wrong hands and be bred period. I breed for show dogs for myself on a very limited basis and I do not contribute to the pet population because my intent is to breed for myself for the show ring and if there is a pet in the litter it goes to a pet home and only if it does not enter the ring. You can see it as contributing to the pet population but when I haven't had a litter in two years I could hardly say I'm breeding to the pet population.
Now to your post as to help stop the over population of the pet industry...when you sell on a spay/neuter contract it controls the over population if all good breeders would sell that way but as you know there are people that will not adhere to a spay/neuter contract and breed for pure profit and for the supply and demand and the pet market and therefore that is when you have our shelters and rescues overflowing with unwanted pets.
As Mardelin pointed out with every puppy we've placed we are still in contact with each puppy and their new family and we will take back any puppy we've placed and that is in our contracts and for me it's a MUST!!!

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

and I always go with my gut instincts

Right now, my gut is telling me it's lunch time!

[LuvMyPuppE]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

Now this is only my opinion and please don't take any offense but from your postings I feel you should look for your perfect animal from the shelters and rescue and give them a home instead of that purebred. It seems to me from your postings since you feel you would be selfish then by all means stay with shelters and rescues so you won't feel guilty about purchasing from a breeder when the others you feel you could save their life.
As for the "I" contribute a few is NOT a dangerous mentality within a show breeders home. We know BYB's do not produce a few or they wouldn't be BYB"s and doing it for money.
You continue to say you are not anti-breeders but for some reason of course in my opinion only you are....
I haven't had a litter in 2 years and looks like it won't be for another year or so that I will have another litter so I guess I'm not supplying the pet population and yes I'm show exhibitor and sometime breeder so I don't think my intent or unintent is a dangerous one

Donna

i don't take any offense because you are entitled to your opinion. once again, i'm confident in where i stand and i'm the only one who knows what i say to be true. why would i say it especially in an anonymous environment (online) if it weren't how i felt? it's impossible to offend someone with conviction.

if anyone is getting a "rise" that is their own choice. when someone stands firm by what they say and believes it, it's not possible to ruffle the feathers.