Do it yourself vacines

[YorkieRose]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

puppies start weaning at 4 weeks (when teeth are presented) to moist hard food...usually completed with regular nursing at 6.5 weeks..mom is off doing her own thing...coming in to check on them..to play with them and so forth but feeding is very irregular...

i have read where some breeders on here have to their knowledge the best technique..keeping the puppies to 12 weeks due to weaning and the mothers training not vaccinating till later...but something i read and have experienced is that once the puppies have been weaned which is usually 6-7 week of age they are no longer seen as their puppies but as members of the pack.

hand sanitizer doesn't boost their immunities, vaccinations do. mothers immunities are not suppressed because she is already done feeding them herself by time vaccinations are started...i havent seen mothers feed past 7 weeks, except for the occasional "quick drink" ...just like humans breast feeding, some do it longer than necessary in my opinion. not all dogs continue later in the puppies life

my puppies are healthy, happy, social and in loving homes i let mine go around 8-9 weeks old...if i had a small one..which they have all always been close to the same size..i would hold it back but never had that happen. they are all vet checked at 6 weeks after the first vaccination..always a good report..then they are vet checked when the new owner picks them up and always had a good report...so ill stick with what im doing it works for me, my puppies, dogs and clients..but new information is always something to look at

I, perfer 12 to 16 weeks..BUT mine only go to previous owners and they have waited perhaps a year or two..so a few weeks longer does not matter to them...it does to me and the puppy.

PS...immunity does not stop the day the puppy stops nursing..it lasts several weeks beyond. Giving a vaccine too early interfers with this immunity...Vet are see more and more problems with autoimmune disease and need to be mindful.

[tammy8833]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

From what I have been reading on this, it is actually more risky giving it too soon, because the natural immunity will kill off the vaccine if given too soon.

Tests have shown that the natural immunity lasts til 9 weeks of age, so if you vaccinate them at 6 eeks, that first vaccine does not even count.

It's the same principal they discovered with vaccinating babies for MMR too soon. Many had to be revaccinated.

So there is good reason to wait. These studies have been done by universities, this is not just some theory that someone came up with. they have test results to prove their theory.

mine have never had a health concern and i am comfortable and secure in my vaccination practice...

everyone thinks their way is the right way but everyone has their own way of doing things and being comfortable with the knowledge that they have gained and to alter that is taking another risk...ill continue with what i was taught and the information i have received through the vets.

if you call a vet they will tell you 6 weeks...

some studies say dont do vaccinations at all..so there are different study's (at universities) everywhere with different ideas of whats right

[tammy8833]

[quote=YorkieRose;2998736]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

puppies start weaning at 4 weeks (when teeth are presented) to moist hard food...usually completed with regular nursing at 6.5 weeks..mom is off doing her own thing...coming in to check on them..to play with them and so forth but feeding is very irregular...

i have read where some breeders on here have to their knowledge the best technique..keeping the puppies to 12 weeks due to weaning and the mothers training not vaccinating till later...but something i read and have experienced is that once the puppies have been weaned which is usually 6-7 week of age they are no longer seen as their puppies but as members of the pack.

hand sanitizer doesn't boost their immunities, vaccinations do. mothers immunities are not suppressed because she is already done feeding them herself by time vaccinations are started...i havent seen mothers feed past 7 weeks, except for the occasional "quick drink" ...just like humans breast feeding, some do it longer than necessary in my opinion. not all dogs continue later in the puppies life

my puppies are healthy, happy, social and in loving homes i let mine go around 8-9 weeks old...if i had a small one..which they have all always been close to the same size..i would hold it back but never had that happen. they are all vet checked at 6 weeks after the first vaccination..always a good report..then they are vet checked when the new owner picks them up and always had a good report...so ill stick with what im doing it works for me, my puppies, dogs and clients..but new information is always something to look at[/QUOT


I, perfer 12 to 16 weeks..BUT mine only go to previous owners and they have waited perhaps a year or two..so a few weeks longer does not matter to them...it does to me and the puppy.

and that the practice you are comfortable with...and thats what you do..

my opinion is different but im not trying to say my way is right for you but sharing with you want i do..

if you are a show breeder i completetly understand keeping them so much longer and making people wait years for a puppy...but im not going to make people feel like they are beneathe me and saying prove it to me you are worth my time...im going to treat them like i would anyone else..and take the information that i receive from them such as, comments, education, body language and their personality and if i see red flags and i do deny them it will be with respect...i have turned people down my self...but i start early in talking with the possible new owners and take time getting to know them...and you can learn a lot about a person if you listen

[YorkieRose]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

mine have never had a health concern and i am comfortable and secure in my vaccination practice...

everyone thinks their way is the right way but everyone has their own way of doing things and being comfortable with the knowledge that they have gained and to alter that is taking another risk...ill continue with what i was taught and the information i have received through the vets.

if you call a vet they will tell you 6 weeks...

some studies say dont do vaccinations at all..so there are different study's (at universities) everywhere with different ideas of whats right

I can only address two areas..Charles CO Md and Palm Beach FLorida...I have yet to speak with any vet or breeder who recommends 6 weeks..

BUT...I do find breeders letting pups go with NO shots at 8 weeks...if they were required to get the first vaccine at 9 as our vets do, it would mean they would have to keep them longer...and we know what that means..more time, money and work put into each pup...
Not directed at you...area breeders...

[YorkieRose]

[quote=tammy8833;2998752]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

and that the practice you are comfortable with...and thats what you do..

my opinion is different but im not trying to say my way is right for you but sharing with you want i do..

if you are a show breeder i completetly understand keeping them so much longer and making people wait years for a puppy...but im not going to make people feel like they are beneathe me and saying prove it to me you are worth my time...im going to treat them like i would anyone else..and take the information that i receive from them such as, comments, education, body language and their personality and if i see red flags and i do deny them it will be with respect...i have turned people down my self...but i start early in talking with the possible new owners and take time getting to know them...and you can learn a lot about a person if you listen

I do not keep my pups because of showing...I have two potentials and need no more...I keep them longer because it is best for my pup and the new owner..this works for me.JMO...

[tammy8833]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

I can only address two areas..Charles CO Md and Palm Beach FLorida...I have yet to speak with any vet or breeder who recommends 6 weeks..

BUT...I do find breeders letting pups go with NO shots at 8 weeks...if they were required to get the first vaccine at 9 as our vets do, it would mean they would have to keep them longer...and we know what that means..more time, money and work put into each pup...
Not directed at you...area breeders...

your right because there is a TON of ppl who breed basically for the h%^^ of it and to pay for vaccinations and wormings and vet care they could care less about it..me? i want them safe if for some reason they needed to stay longer i dont care myself...but i start getting attached and wanting to keep them all then my husband cares..=)

i hate to see people letting puppies go at 5 weeks old or younger that really melts my butter. i saw someone selling wolf hybrids on kijiji, pick up was at week 3!!! and they wanted something like 1500 a pup! their eyes are barely open at 3 weeks! thats crazy thats people in it for the money..i hate to see people sell puppies with out vaccinations, wormings, vet checks and when they dont know anything about them...all the care about is getting the puppies out and the $$ in....

i think the breeders on here care, we may have different practices but it all boils down to that we care

[tammy8833]

[quote=YorkieRose;2998760]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

I do not keep my pups because of showing...I have two potentials and need no more...I keep them longer because it is best for my pup and the new owner..this works for me.JMO...

and i respect you and your practices...id tell you have beautiful dogs but you already know that..

[Wylie's Mom]

Seriously, I usually can remain calm...but I cannot *believe* most of the answers on this thread.

Originally Posted by carmen in nj

yes, this is true, that is why every breeder MUST sit with the new parent and explain WHY they vaccinate

In my opinion, this is so far from correct, bc so many breeders are *not* vaccinating correctly - as is crystal clear on this thread . To assume that "every" breeder can sit down and explain appropriate vaccinations is just...well, is that really how you feel? So, a puppy miller, greeder, BYBer, whoever can sit down and explain vaccinations...? (I'm sorry, I really don't mean to be confrontational here, but some of the info on this thread is just rubbing me wrong, to say the least).

Originally Posted by Ellie May

lol, yeah really.
I just ignore the opinions of most breeders and vets and try to follow a protocol that the experts in the field have laid out. Thankfully Ellie's vet doesn't have a problem with that.

The only vaccines that are acceptable to give at six weeks are recombinent; otherwise, the maternal antibodies become ineffective from the vaccine and the vaccine becomes ineffective fromt the maternal antibodies. Thus, the dog is totally unprotected at this time (window of susceptibility).

Lepto is an extreme problem in MI right now. Some vets do the lepto vaccine here and others don't. While I won't say not to get it, 99.999999% of the time it is not a good idea for Yorkies, IMO.

This is how vets and pet owners and ethical breeders need to understand vaccinations, in my opinion.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

everyone has a difference of opinion..i had never heard not to give lepto until yt..i have used it for years and my opinion is that im comfortable using it...i dont know any vets that dont use it..my dogs have gotten it for years, the dogs i had before that, have always gotten the 7 way..all the dogs that were fostered when i volunteers received it...that is actually where i bought my first round of vaccines..now i order my own. its not a concern in my opinion i am completely happy and confident in how i protect my pups..sorry that its something you worry about

i also had never heard that vaccinating a pup at 6 weeks is a no no...until yt...IMO thats taking a BIG BIG BIG risk..i dont think there is any one that would change my mind on that..i feel like waiting that 6 weeks to vaccinate them is scary..people walk all over the place and can carry diseases on their shoes..so i am relieved when i start vaccinating them at 6 weeks i feel they are safe and protected...

I hope you rethink giving them Lepto; Yorkietalk does have a lot of breed specific information that many vets don't have. I just want to add that Joey's breeder even had it written in her contract that I should not use Lepto in puppy shots or in adult boosters. Joey's vet agreed with her on this point.

[carmen in nj]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Seriously, I usually can remain calm...but I cannot *believe* most of the answers on this thread.



In my opinion, this is so far from correct, bc so many breeders are *not* vaccinating correctly - as is crystal clear on this thread . To assume that "every" breeder can sit down and explain appropriate vaccinations is just...well, is that really how you feel? So, a puppy miller, greeder, BYBer, whoever can sit down and explain vaccinations...? (I'm sorry, I really don't mean to be confrontational here, but some of the info on this thread is just rubbing me wrong, to say the least).



This is how vets and pet owners and ethical breeders need to understand vaccinations, in my opinion.

I understand your point, but I feel that IS MY DUTY to explain to my parents how and why we vaccinate the way we do, I am sure that other breeders, and like you say puppy millers and BYB, vaccinate too, I still feel that I NEED to arm my parents with the information and paperwork to back up my statements. I give in a puppy packet a copy of Dr.Dodd's vaccine protocols, maybe I am wrong but is been working for me and my parents I think Any information that the parents get and they can share with their vet is necessary for the benefit of the pup.
that is all I have to say.

[jp4m2]

I got to say Anne I was disturbed also reading this thread.....

It's not a matter of being just "someones" opinion that vaccines have the potential to cause long lasting harm to a pups immune system. This has far reaching health problems for the future owners of these pets who where not vaccinated with the utmost care.....

The research is in and has been in for decades, administering vaccines too early is of no benefit to the pet and stresses the pets immune system. To say the pet is fine is is false. The pet may "appear" fine but what is happening internally is damage, vaccination can produce a chronic illness known as "vaccinosis", which leaves the pet less able to fend off other medical problems. The more vaccines that are administered the immune system is further weakened. What the new owner will see is feet licking, chronic ear infections, hypothyroidism, arthritis, seizures, epilepsy and even cancer. Some of these problems won't show up for a few years but with every vaccine administrated the damage increases........

Speaking in general, breeders have a huge responsibility to educate themselves on overvaccination and to administer them in the safest and most effective way possible so as do the least amount of harm to the animals immune system.......To refuse to make changes just because that's the way it's always been done, or just out of old habits, is just wrong..... ......

[tammy8833]

this practice of giving vaccines at 6 weeks has been around a long time and i personally have never seen anything harming the pup if given at 6 weeks or given lepto...i had NEVER see anything different until i join yt

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

this practice of giving vaccines at 6 weeks has been around a long time and i personally have never seen anything harming the pup if given at 6 weeks or given lepto...i had NEVER see anything different until i join yt

That's one of the reasons I like Yorkietalk! You can get breed specific information here!

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by carmen in nj

I understand your point, but I feel that IS MY DUTY to explain to my parents how and why we vaccinate the way we do, I am sure that other breeders, and like you say puppy millers and BYB, vaccinate too, I still feel that I NEED to arm my parents with the information and paperwork to back up my statements. I give in a puppy packet a copy of Dr.Dodd's vaccine protocols, maybe I am wrong but is been working for me and my parents I think Any information that the parents get and they can share with their vet is necessary for the benefit of the pup.
that is all I have to say.

Yeah, I understand - we're on the same page as far as Dodd's, which is why I posted her link in this thread earlier and why Dodd's site is stickied on YT.

My point, which apparently I'm very bad at expressing , was that while some breeders indeed may give appropriate vax (like you), when you said "every breeder" in your post - to me, you were indicating that owners should follow what "every" breeder says...and that, to me, is something about which I had to say something. Please, no offense meant .

Because all breeders do not vaccinate appropriately (nor do all vets, for that matter), this puts the onus back onto the owner to research, educate themselves about incidence/prevalence etcetera - and find out what current recommendations are by the AAHA, as well as leading vaccine researchers.

Like I said, I really do not mean anything personally...I just feel very passionately about avoiding unnecessary vaccines.

[jp4m2]

These are findings from researchers.......

In one study of a cross section of different puppies the age at which they were able to respond to a vaccine and develop protection covered a wide period of time. At 6 wks. of age 25% of the puppies could be immunized. At 9 wks. of age, 40% of the puppies were able to respond to the vaccine. The number increased to 60% by 16 wks., and by 18 wks. of age, 95% of the puppies could be immunized.


The maternal antibodies in a puppy younger than 16 weeks may interfere with the immune response. At the ages of 14 to 16 weeks of age, PAMA (passively acquired maternal antibody) should be at a level that will not block active immunization in most puppies (>95%) when a reliable product is used. It should be noted that giving vaccine more frequently than every 2 weeks will cause interference between the two vaccines and neither can be expected to be effective. This includes giving vaccines for different infections.
Vaccines should be spaced 2-4 weeks apart. Although increasing the number of components in a vaccine may be more convenient for the practitioner or owner, the likelihood for adverse effects may increase. (American Animal Hospital Association)

"Dogs and cats immune systems mature fully at 6 months. If a modified live virus vaccine is given after 6 months of age, it produces immunity, which is good for the life of the pet (ie: canine distemper, parvo, feline distemper). If another MLV vaccine is given a year later, the antibodies from the first vaccine neutralize the antigens of the second vaccine and there is little or no effect. The titers are not “boosted” nor are more memory cells induced. "J Dodds, DVM