Do it yourself vacines

[carmen in nj]

My son is a vet tech and we use what the vet he used to work at the day practice uses. MY Silkies have never shown a problem, We give our puppies the 5 in one at 9 weeks & 12 weeks, if a puppy stays we give it again at 16 weeks. At a year of age we give the 7 in one we had had a few bouts in my area of lepto so we beleive in being ready. we also give the bordetella Intra III at 11 weeks.
I never had a vet not accept the vaccines we give, my puppies go home with records and labels. and I tell my parents to NOT let the vet over vaccinate their pups.
We also get all our vaccines from Revival Animal, they are fast and very reliable in shipping vaccines in coolers with extra ice. We also do a fecal before deworming at 3 weeks and again at 6 weeks, if no worms then no treatment. My puppies get 1/2 teaspoon of Diatomaceous Earth in their food starting at 8 weeks every week until they go home at 12 weeks.
Educating your new parent is VERY important, i send a whole booklet home with each baby detailing everything i can think of and i am always available to talk to them any time.
HTH,
Carmen in nj

[Micah my love]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Ok! You live in California and I know what the vet and shot prices are there.

Here's what I do and recommend:

I take a collective stool sample prior to deworming.....I never deworm if not necessary.

I do my own puppy shots:

1. I order them through Revivalanimal.com

Vangaurd Plus 5 (order them before March 30th. Revival will have to reup their contract with them and the prices will increase by 40%. I spoke to their vet supply specialist and these vaccinations will have an expiration of 2011. Living in California and I assume you have litters of yorkies....Cornona, Lypto and Lyme are not needed or recommended.

2. I order the Intra III for Kennel Cough

3. Syringes are Monjet Luer Lock 3ML 25 x 5/8 A box of a hundred is less than $10.00 for a box of 100. I use them for everything from administering meds orally, vaccinations, Sub-Q, administering POP shots supplementing puppies.

Remember vaccinating your pup against Parva does not guarantee your pup will not contract the dreaded disease. That bit of information came from my vet.

I have give my own vaccinations for a number of years and Mary has my choice of supplies & Co. listed above. I am happy to say that i have never to date had a puppy to react from this vaccine, but i do know anything can happen when you least expect it. there is always something new to be learned on YT before coming here i vaccinated my pups at 6 wks so now i know better LOL

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

with my adults dogs its never been an issue...i gave it to puppies once before and it wasnt an issue...ive grown up using the 7 way in all our dogs...no specific reason other than thats what we use...

puppies i typically use the 5 way but i have used the 7 way and never saw a lick of change

Having a tough time knowing what to say here....bc this answer concerns me on so many levels. Not the least of which is bc there may be people reading this who are not familiar with vaccines.

For those readers who are new to Vaccines, please read Dr. Dodd's Vaccine Shedule and familiarize yourself w/ Core vs. Non-Core vaccines.

As far as Lepto, specifically, the risk of getting the vaccine is rarely worth it, unless the disease is endemic to your area.

[Mardelin]

For those living in California

PERMISSION GRANTED TO POST AND CROSS-POST


March 28th San Diego Pet Vaccine Seminar Drs. W. Jean Dodds and Ronald Schultz

Award-winning author, Jan Rasmusen, has organized a vaccine seminar to be held in San Diego, California on March 28, 2010 to benefit The Rabies Challenge Fund. World-renowned veterinary vaccine research scientists, Drs. W. Jean Dodds and Ronald Schultz, will be the featured speakers at this all-day event. Detailed information on the seminar can be found at Pet Health Seminar Benefiting the Rabies Challenge Fund . The seminar has been certified to give 6 CCPDT Continuing Education Units to dog trainers.

West Virginia Rabies Law -- House Bill 4407

HB 4407 hb4407 intr has been introduced in the West Virginia House Agriculture Committee by Delegates Guthrie, Butcher, and Maypenny. This bill would change the current 2 year rabies booster requirement for dogs and cats to the 3 year national standard and includes a medical exemption clause for sick animals.

What You Can Do to Help

Contact the House Agriculture Committee members and ask them to pass HB 4407. A message may be phoned in to the Agriculture Committee Chair, Delegate Butcher at (304) 340-3113 or e-mailed to all the committee members at: sargento@mail.wvnet.edu; gbutcher@mail.wvnet.edu; aevans@mail.wvnet.edu; rcanter1@mail.wvnet.edu; bob.beach@wvhouse.gov; brent.boggs@wvhouse.gov; tom.campbell@wvhouse.gov; mike.caputo@wvhouse.gov; jeffeldridge96@yahoo.com; nancy.guthrie@wvhouse.gov; djhall@mail.wvnet.edu; mmany@mail.wvnet.edu; dale.martin@wvhouse.gov; jim.morgan@wvhouse.gov; rickymoye@wvhouse.gov; marypoli@mail.wvnet.edu; rrodigh@mail.wvnet.edu; rswartzmiller@hotmail.com; danny.wells@wvhouse.gov; lwillia1@mail.wvnet.edu; eanders1@mail.wvnet.edu; bordel@mail.wvnet.edu; lireland@mail.wvnet.edu; carol.miller@wvhouse.gov; john@overington.com

Rhode Island Rabies Regulations

The Rhode Island Rabies Control Board meets February 22 at 9:30 a.m. Room 370, Division of Agriculture, 235 Promenade Street, Providence-- New 3 year rabies regulations approved at the April 2009 meeting are to be discussed. http://sos.ri.gov/documents/publicin...2010/84585.pdf Concerned pet owners should make every effort to attend this meeting and ask their friends to do the same.

If you cannot attend the meeting, but want to voice your opinion, please contact the Chair of the Board, RI State Veterinarian, Dr. Scott Marshall at scott.marshall@dem.ri.gov phone: (401) 222-2781 and ask that the regulatory change to the 3 year protocol be made effective as soon as possible.

Jefferson City, Missouri Rabies Law-- Action Alert

On behalf of The Rabies Challenge Fund Duration of Immunity Study for Rabies Vaccine - Rabies Challenge Fund and pet owners in Jefferson City, Missouri, I have sent the letter below in an effort to change the city's annual rabies booster requirement to the national 3 year standard.

What You Can Do to Help:

Contact the Mayor jlandwehr@jeffcitymo.org (573) 634-6304 and City Council (573) 634-6311 fergusk@lincolnu.edu; kferguson@jeffcitymo.org; mharvey@jeffcitymo.org; rkoon@jeffcitymo.org; jpenfold@jeffcitymo.org; bscrivner@jeffcitymo.org; bpope@jeffcitymo.org; estruemph@jeffcitymo.org; ccarroll@jeffcitymo.org; dklindt@jeffcitymo.org; rmedin@jeffcitymo.org and ask them to change the annual rabied booster requirement to conform to the 3 year protocol recommended by the National Association of State Public Health Veterinarians Rabies Compendium and ask your pet-owning friends to do the same.


Letter to Jefferson City Mayor

February 5, 2010

Mayor John Landwehr
City of Jefferson
John G. Christy Municipal Building
320 East McCarty
Jefferson City, MO 65101

RE: Chapter 5 Article III. RABIES CONTROL Section 5-45. Vaccination of Dogs, Cats


Greetings Mayor Landwehr:

Jefferson City’s Ordinance Chapter 5 Article III. RABIES CONTROL Section 5-45. Vaccination of Dogs, Cats mandating annual rabies vaccinations is counter to the recommendations of the American Veterinary Medical Association [1] and the Center for Disease Control’s National Association of State Public Health Veterinarian’s Compendium of Animal Rabies Prevention and Control 2008 which states that, “Vaccines used in state and local rabies control programs should have at least a 3-year duration of immunity. This constitutes the most effective method of increasing the proportion of immunized dogs and cats in any population (50).” They specifically warn that, “[n]o laboratory or epidemiologic data exist to support the annual or biennial administration of 3- or 4-year vaccines following the initial series.”

This ordinance mandating that the “rabies vaccination shall be valid for a period of one year from the date of vaccination,” overrides Missouri Revised Statutes Chapter 322, Section 322.010 Protection Against Rabies, defining "immunized" as being “immunized against rabies at the expense of the owner or custodian by the administration of antirabic virus by a licensed veterinarian,” and for which the Department of Health defers to the recommendations of the Compendium of Animal Rabies Prevention and Control under “Vaccination of Animals” in their Rabies Surveillance.

[Mardelin]

It is recognized that most, if not all, currently licensed annual rabies vaccines given annually are actually the 3-year vaccine relabeled for annual use -- Colorado State University's Small Animal Vaccination Protocol for its veterinary teaching hospital states: “Even with rabies vaccines, the label may be misleading in that a three year duration of immunity product may also be labeled and sold as a one year duration of immunity product.” According to Dr. Ronald Schultz of the University of Wisconsin School of Veterinary Medicine, whose canine vaccine studies form a large part of the scientific base for the 2003 and 2006 American Animal Hospital Association’s (AAHA) Canine Vaccine Guidelines, as well as the World Small Animal Veterinary Association’s 2007 Vaccine Guidelines, “There is no benefit from annual rabies vaccination and most one year rabies products are similar or identical to the 3-year products with regard to duration of immunity and effectiveness.” [2]

Jefferson City’s ordinance requiring annual rabies boosters may have been intended to achieve enhanced immunity to the rabies virus by giving the vaccine more often than the federal 3-year licensing standard, but, more frequent vaccination than is required to fully immunize an animal will not achieve further disease protection. Redundant annual rabies shots needlessly expose dogs and cats to the risk of adverse effects while obligating residents to pay unnecessary veterinary medical fees. The American Veterinary Medical Association's 2001 Principles of Vaccination state that “Unnecessary
stimulation of the immune system does not result in enhanced disease resistance, and may increase the risk of adverse post-vaccination events.” The current rabies immunization ordinance may violate Missouri’s consumer protection laws by requiring pet owners to pay for a yearly veterinary medical procedure from which their animals derive no benefit and may be harmed.

Immunologically, rabies vaccines are the most potent of the veterinary vaccines and “are the most common group of biological products identified in adverse event reports received by the CVB [Center for Veterinary Biologics]." [3] They are associated with significant adverse reactions such as polyneuropathy “resulting in muscular atrophy, inhibition or interruption of neuronal control of tissue and organ function, incoordination, and weakness.” [4] Auto-immune hemolytic anemia, [5] autoimmune diseases affecting the thyroid, joints, blood, eyes, skin, kidney, liver, bowel, and central nervous system; anaphylactic shock; aggression; seizures; epilepsy; and fibrosarcomas at injection sites are all linked to the rabies vaccine. [6] [7] It is medically unsound for this vaccine to be given more often than is necessary to maintain immunity.

According to a study published in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association [8] in 2005, the risk of an allergic reaction has been documented to "increase after the third or fourth injection of a vaccine (i.e., a booster response) " and is "inversely related to a dog's weight," indicating that Jefferson City’s annual rabies protocol exposes its domestic dogs, especially small breeds and puppies, to unnecessary potential harm by mandating medically redundant rabies boosters.

Research indicates that “the rabies vaccine may be the most oncogenic. After 1996, when specific locations could be associated with specific vaccines, the right rear limb, which is the recommended site of rabies vaccination, was the most common site of injection-site sarcomas. " [9] A “killed” vaccine, the rabies vaccine contains adjuvants to enhance the immunological response. In 1999, the World Health Organization “classified veterinary vaccine adjuvants as Class III/IV carcinogens with Class IV being the highest risk," [10] and the results of a study published in the August 2003 Journal of Veterinary Medicine documenting fibrosarcomas at the presumed injection sites of rabies vaccines stated, “In both dogs and cats, the development of necrotizing panniculitis at sites of rabies vaccine administration was first observed by Hendrick & Dunagan (1992).” [11] According to the 2003 AAHA Guidelines, "...killed vaccines are much more likely to cause hypersensitivity reactions (e.g., immune-mediated disease)." [12]

County officials should note data indicating that compliance rates are no higher in areas with annual rabies immunization requirements than in those with triennial protocols. A 2002 report compiled by the Banfield Corporation for the Texas Department of Health on rabies vaccination rates determined that a “comparison of the one-year states and the three-year states demonstrates no difference in the delinquency rates” and that, “A paucity of scientific data exists to demonstrate a clear public health benefit of a one-year vaccination protocol versus a three-year vaccination protocol.” [13]

On behalf of The Rabies Challenge Fund and Jefferson City pet owners who have contacted us with concerns about the city’s annual rabies booster requirement for dogs and cats, we strongly urge you to amend Chapter 5 Article III Section 5-45 to conform to the 3-year national standard recommended by the Center for Disease Control’s National Association of State Public Health Veterinarians and endorsed by the American Veterinary Medical Association. We also respectfully request that medical exemption language be inserted into the code.

Sincerely,



Kris L. Christine
Founder, Co-Trustee
THE RABIES CHALLENGE FUND
Duration of Immunity Study for Rabies Vaccine - Rabies Challenge Fund
ledgespring@lincoln.midcoast.com

cc: Drs. W. Jean Dodds and Ronald Schultz
Jefferson City Council

[tammy8833]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Having a tough time knowing what to say here....bc this answer concerns me on so many levels. Not the least of which is bc there may be people reading this who are not familiar with vaccines.

For those readers who are new to Vaccines, please read Dr. Dodd's Vaccine Shedule and familiarize yourself w/ Core vs. Non-Core vaccines.

As far as Lepto, specifically, the risk of getting the vaccine is rarely worth it, unless the disease is endemic to your area.

everyone has a difference of opinion..i had never heard not to give lepto until yt..i have used it for years and my opinion is that im comfortable using it...i dont know any vets that dont use it..my dogs have gotten it for years, the dogs i had before that, have always gotten the 7 way..all the dogs that were fostered when i volunteers received it...that is actually where i bought my first round of vaccines..now i order my own. its not a concern in my opinion i am completely happy and confident in how i protect my pups..sorry that its something you worry about

i also had never heard that vaccinating a pup at 6 weeks is a no no...until yt...IMO thats taking a BIG BIG BIG risk..i dont think there is any one that would change my mind on that..i feel like waiting that 6 weeks to vaccinate them is scary..people walk all over the place and can carry diseases on their shoes..so i am relieved when i start vaccinating them at 6 weeks i feel they are safe and protected...

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

WOW...
Too much toxin to run through tiny puppies to suit me and all the vets I have ever dealt with...I start with parasite free bitches and work from there..
Pups get a stool check at 6 weeks..no parasites, no treatment..8 wk and 12 week stool check...no parasites, no treatment.
KNOCK on wood I have not had a positive stool in over 20 yrs...

As to vaccines...most vets today are not accepting a breeder giving vaccines..so they disregard breeders record and start shots all over again...so many pups are being over vaccinated because of this factor.I advise the breeder giving the 8 week and then the vet giving the 12 shot and a health check...if you are selling at the 12 wk advised aged. I keep mine until all shots, including rabies is given...JMO

That is irresponsible on the part of the owner and the vet.. I would never allow my vet to disregard the breeders vaccination record. There again, it boils down to buying from someone you trust. Also having the little peel off lables pretty much proves that you did indeed have the vaccine.

I think a bigger problem comes from vaccinting to early and having the vaccine not even count because the natural immunity canceled it.

I do not vaccinate until 9 weeks therefore vaccinations are not completed until 15 weeks.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

everyone has a difference of opinion..i had never heard not to give lepto until yt..i have used it for years and my opinion is that im comfortable using it...i dont know any vets that dont use it..my dogs have gotten it for years, the dogs i had before that, have always gotten the 7 way..all the dogs that were fostered when i volunteers received it...that is actually where i bought my first round of vaccines..now i order my own. its not a concern in my opinion i am completely happy and confident in how i protect my pups..sorry that its something you worry about

i also had never heard that vaccinating a pup at 6 weeks is a no no...until yt...IMO thats taking a BIG BIG BIG risk..i dont think there is any one that would change my mind on that..i feel like waiting that 6 weeks to vaccinate them is scary..people walk all over the place and can carry diseases on their shoes..so i am relieved when i start vaccinating them at 6 weeks i feel they are safe and protected...

You are doing more damage than good giving vaccinations prior to 8 1/2 to 9 weeks. You are supressing mother's immuities.

Yes, people walk all over the place, however precautions should be taken when there are litters in the house, removing your shoes before entering your house. Making sure that you change your clothes prior to handling the pups. And always making sure that you disinfect your hands before handling the pups. Making sure that whereever the pups are confined to, that it is always sanitized with a disinfected.

[TammyJM]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

everyone has a difference of opinion..i had never heard not to give lepto until yt..i have used it for years and my opinion is that im comfortable using it...i dont know any vets that dont use it..my dogs have gotten it for years, the dogs i had before that, have always gotten the 7 way..all the dogs that were fostered when i volunteers received it...that is actually where i bought my first round of vaccines..now i order my own. its not a concern in my opinion i am completely happy and confident in how i protect my pups..sorry that its something you worry about

i also had never heard that vaccinating a pup at 6 weeks is a no no...until yt...IMO thats taking a BIG BIG BIG risk..i dont think there is any one that would change my mind on that..i feel like waiting that 6 weeks to vaccinate them is scary..people walk all over the place and can carry diseases on their shoes..so i am relieved when i start vaccinating them at 6 weeks i feel they are safe and protected...

I am suprised that you have never heard of a vet not giving this particular shot. When I first bought Livi, I had a piece of paper with me...from her breeder saying NOT to give the Lepto. I handed the vet her note and she said, "Oh, I would never give the Lepto to a Yorkie baby!!". I am sure there are all sorts of opinions out there, but my husband and I did a lot of research on it when it came time to get Livi's first baby vaccinated. From what we found, most vets feel that it should not be given to toy breeds. It is your choice, they are your puppies...I, for one, am a bit scared of the Lepto shot. But then again, I think our precious fur kids are over-vaccinated...oh, and I also think that shots are given too young.

Just my opinion, though.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by tammy8833

everyone has a difference of opinion..i had never heard not to give lepto until yt..i have used it for years and my opinion is that im comfortable using it...i dont know any vets that dont use it..my dogs have gotten it for years, the dogs i had before that, have always gotten the 7 way..all the dogs that were fostered when i volunteers received it...that is actually where i bought my first round of vaccines..now i order my own. its not a concern in my opinion i am completely happy and confident in how i protect my pups..sorry that its something you worry about

i also had never heard that vaccinating a pup at 6 weeks is a no no...until yt...IMO thats taking a BIG BIG BIG risk..i dont think there is any one that would change my mind on that..i feel like waiting that 6 weeks to vaccinate them is scary..people walk all over the place and can carry diseases on their shoes..so i am relieved when i start vaccinating them at 6 weeks i feel they are safe and protected...

From what I have been reading on this, it is actually more risky giving it too soon, because the natural immunity will kill off the vaccine if given too soon.

Tests have shown that the natural immunity lasts til 9 weeks of age, so if you vaccinate them at 6 eeks, that first vaccine does not even count.

It's the same principal they discovered with vaccinating babies for MMR too soon. Many had to be revaccinated.

So there is good reason to wait. These studies have been done by universities, this is not just some theory that someone came up with. they have test results to prove their theory.

[YorkieRose]

I think this discussion proves breeders use different vaccines at different ages and all feel they are right...no wonder pet owners are confused and do what the vet says...

[carmen in nj]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

I think this discussion proves breeders use different vaccines at different ages and all feel they are right...no wonder pet owners are confused and do what the vet says...

yes, this is true, that is why every breeder MUST sit with the new parent and explain WHY they vaccinate, feed and do what they do to the parent, nothing like an educated parent to fight for their puppy dog. I am sure my very first dog was over vaccinated since then 20 years ago we have discover and found out many more reasons why vaccinate later and later.
I also explain to then that most vets try to discard the breeders vaccines and is UP to them to tell him/her that they DO NOT want a revaccination schedule, their puppy is already vaccinated and if they insist to tell them they will look for a new vet, you will be surprise how the vet's attitude changes. Education is the Best arm we have right now, I have gotten one phone call from a vet asking me why we start vaccinating so late and I send him Dr. Dodd's link. so it pays to educate and inform the person that is going to guard the wellbeing of the pup.
hugs,
Carmen in nj

[tammy8833]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

You are doing more damage than good giving vaccinations prior to 8 1/2 to 9 weeks. You are supressing mother's immuities.

Yes, people walk all over the place, however precautions should be taken when there are litters in the house, removing your shoes before entering your house. Making sure that you change your clothes prior to handling the pups. And always making sure that you disinfect your hands before handling the pups. Making sure that whereever the pups are confined to, that it is always sanitized with a disinfected.

puppies start weaning at 4 weeks (when teeth are presented) to moist hard food...usually completed with regular nursing at 6.5 weeks..mom is off doing her own thing...coming in to check on them..to play with them and so forth but feeding is very irregular...

i have read where some breeders on here have to their knowledge the best technique..keeping the puppies to 12 weeks due to weaning and the mothers training not vaccinating till later...but something i read and have experienced is that once the puppies have been weaned which is usually 6-7 week of age they are no longer seen as their puppies but as members of the pack.

hand sanitizer doesn't boost their immunities, vaccinations do. mothers immunities are not suppressed because she is already done feeding them herself by time vaccinations are started...i havent seen mothers feed past 7 weeks, except for the occasional "quick drink" ...just like humans breast feeding, some do it longer than necessary in my opinion. not all dogs continue later in the puppies life

my puppies are healthy, happy, social and in loving homes i let mine go around 8-9 weeks old...if i had a small one..which they have all always been close to the same size..i would hold it back but never had that happen. they are all vet checked at 6 weeks after the first vaccination..always a good report..then they are vet checked when the new owner picks them up and always had a good report...so ill stick with what im doing it works for me, my puppies, dogs and clients..but new information is always something to look at

[YorkieRose]

Carmen.. true...I think many would still be giving lepto etc...decades ago when parvo came upon the scene, we were all so scared we were advised to vaccine pups are early as possible...it did not sit right with me...the dam was protected, why wouldn't the pups be?? Mother Nature has a great system.

I have avoided these problems with unreasonable vets by urging them to use mine and to keep a pup until 16 weeks...by then mine are trained and the owners are 100% previous owners of my Yorkies..so they are happy to wait...last year 3 of my 15 yr old Yorks died and people were able to get greatgrand kids...felt good.

PS...anyone in the Riverdale, MD area with an open minded vet for my dear friend?

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

I think this discussion proves breeders use different vaccines at different ages and all feel they are right...no wonder pet owners are confused and do what the vet says...

lol, yeah really.
I just ignore the opinions of most breeders and vets and try to follow a protocol that the experts in the field have laid out. Thankfully Ellie's vet doesn't have a problem with that.

The only vaccines that are acceptable to give at six weeks are recombinent; otherwise, the maternal antibodies become ineffective from the vaccine and the vaccine becomes ineffective fromt the maternal antibodies. Thus, the dog is totally unprotected at this time (window of susceptibility).

Lepto is an extreme problem in MI right now. Some vets do the lepto vaccine here and others don't. While I won't say not to get it, 99.999999% of the time it is not a good idea for Yorkies, IMO.