Need someone who has experience going after a breeder - Page 4 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

mismolly · 02-10-2010, 05:22 PM

Exactly! Called our doctor's and they are not worried in the least. They say if we were to get it, it is no big deal and goes away. BUt like I said, we have had her since December 28th and we have not had a single red dot, rash, itch, NOTHING! And we held her, hugged her and loved her to pieces! I even rubbed her mangy face wehre we scraped her on my cheek and have not a mark or anyting on my cheeks either!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mommadog1

Actually it's not the same. Dogs and cats are infected by different types of mites than those which infect humans. Animals are not a source of spread of human scabies. Scabies on dogs is called mange. When canine or feline mites land on human skin, they fail to thrive and produce only a mild itch that goes away on its own. This is unlike human scabies which gets worse and worse unless the condition is treated.

livingdustmops · 02-10-2010, 05:37 PM

Demodectic mange
Demodex canis
Also called demodicosis or Red Mange, demodectic mange in dogs is caused by a sensitivity to and overpopulation of Demodex canis as the animal's immune system is unable to keep the mites under control. This is a mite that occurs naturally in the hair follicles of most dogs in low numbers around the face and other areas of the body. In most dogs, these mites never cause problems. However, in certain situations, such as an under-developed or impaired immune system, intense stress, or malnutrition, the mites can reproduce rapidly, causing symptoms in sensitive dogs that range from mild irritation and hair loss on a small patch of skin to severe and widespread inflammation, secondary infection, and—in rare cases—a life-threatening condition. Small patches of demodicosis often correct themselves over time as the dog's immune system matures, although treatment is usually recommended.
Minor cases of demodectic mange usually do not cause much itching but might cause pustules on the dog's skin, redness, scaling, hair loss, or any combination of these. It most commonly appears first on the face, around the eyes, or at the corners of the mouth, and on the forelimbs and paws.
In the more severe form, hair loss can occur in patches all over the body and might be accompanied by crusting, pain, enlarged lymph nodes, and deep skin infections.
Demodectic mange is not generally contagious to people, other animals, or even other dogs (except from mother to pup). However, the mite is zoonotic, (see below) and, upon infesting a human, will generally live in the hair follicles of the eyelashes and eyebrows. These mites thrive only on very specific hosts (dogs) and transmission usually occurs only from the mother to nursing puppies during the first few days after birth. The transmission of these mites from mother to pup is normal (which is why the mites are normal inhabitants of the dog's skin), but some individuals are sensitive to the mites, which can lead to the development of demodectic mange.
Some breeds appear to have an increased risk of mild cases as young dogs, including the Afghan Hound, American Staffordshire Terrier, Boston Terrier, Boxer, Chihuahua, Shar Pei, Collie, Dalmatian, Doberman Pinscher, Bulldog, English Bull Terrier, Miniature Bull Terrier, German Shepherd Dog, Great Dane, Old English Sheepdog, American Pit Bull Terrier, West Highland White Terrier, Rat Terrier, and Pug. There is strong evidence that a predilection for juvenile demodectic mange is inherited, and those suffering from this form should not be bred.
Demodectic mange also occurs in other domestic and wild animals. The mites are specific to their hosts, and each mammal species is host to one or two unique species of Demodex mites. There are two types of demodectic mange in cats. Demodex cati causes follicular mange, similar to that seen in dogs, though it is much less common. Demodex gatoi is a more superficial form of mange, causes an itchy skin condition, and is contagious amongst cats.
Treatment
Localized demodectic mange is considered a common puppyhood ailment, with roughly 90% of cases resolving on their own with no treatment. Minor, localized cases are often treated with medicated shampoos and not treated with agents aimed at killing mites as these infestations often resolve within several weeks in young dogs.
Demodectic mange with secondary infection is treated with antibiotics and medicated shampoos as well as parasiticidal agents. Amitraz is a parasiticidal rinse that is licensed for use in many countries for treating canine demodicosis. It is applied weekly or biweekly, for several weeks, until no mites can be detected by skin scrapings.
Demodectic mange in dogs can also be managed with ivermectins, although there are few countries which license these drugs, which are given by mouth, daily, for this use. Ivermectin is used most frequently; collie-like herding breeds often do not tolerate this drug due to a defect in the blood-brain barrier, though not all of them have this defect. Other avermectin drugs that can be used include doramectin and milbemycin.
Cats with Demodex gatoi must be treated with weekly or bi-weekly sulfurated lime rinses. Demodex cati are treated similarly to canine demodicosis.
Sarcoptic mange

Sarcoptes scabiei
Also known as canine scabies, sarcoptic mange is a highly contagious infestation of Sarcoptes scabiei canis, a burrowing mite. The canine sarcoptic mite can also infest humans and cats, pigs, horses, sheep and various other species.
These mites dig into and through the skin, causing intense itching and crusting that can quickly become infected. Hair loss and crusting frequently appear first on elbows and ears. Skin damage can occur from the dog's intense scratching and biting and secondary skin infection is common. Dogs with chronic sarcoptic mange are often in poor condition.
Treatment
Affected dogs need to be isolated from other dogs and their bedding, and places they have occupied must be thoroughly cleaned. Other dogs in contact with a diagnosed case should be evaluated and treated.
There are a number of parasiticidal treatments useful in treating canine scabies. Sulfurated lime rinses applied weekly or bi-weekly are effective. Selamectin is licensed for treatment by veterinary prescription in several countries; it is applied as a drip-on directly to the skin. Unlicensed, but frequently used, ivermectin, given by mouth for two to four weekly treatments; this drug is not safe to use on some collie-like herding dogs, however. Other ivermectin drugs are also effective, but none is licensed for use on dogs.
Diagnosis
Veterinarians usually attempt diagnosis with skin scrapings from multiple areas, which are then examined under a microscope for mites. Sarcoptes, because they may be present in relatively low numbers, and because they are often removed by dogs chewing at themselves, may be difficult to demonstrate. As a result, diagnosis in Sarcoptic mange is often based on symptoms rather than actual confirmation of the presence of mites. A common and simple way of determining if a dog has mange is if it displays what is called a "Pedal-Pinna reflex", which is when the dog moves one of its hind legs in a scratching motion as the ear is being manipulated and scratched gently by the examiner; because the mites proliferate on the ear margins in nearly all cases at some point, this method works over 95% of the time.[3] It is helpful in cases where all symptoms of mange are present but no mites are observed with a microscope. In some countries, a serologic test is available that may be useful in diagnosis.
For demodectic mange, properly performed deep skin scrapings generally allow the veterinarian to identify the microscopic mites. However because the mite is a normal inhabitant of the dog's skin, the presence of the mites does not conclusively mean the dog suffers from demodex. Rather abnormally high numbers of the mite are more useful. In breeds such as the West Highland White Terrier, relatively minor skin irritation which would otherwise be considered allergy should be carefully scraped because of the predilection of these dogs to demodectic mange. Skin scrapings may be used to follow the progress of treatment in demodectic mange.

A zoonosis (pronounced /ˌzoʊ.əˈnoʊsɨs/) or zoonose[1] is any infectious disease that can be transmitted (in some instances, by a vector) from non-human animals, both wild and domestic, to humans or from humans to non-human animals (the latter is sometimes called reverse zoonosis). Many serious diseases fall under this category.
The simplest definition of a zoonosis is a disease that can be transmitted from other vertebrate animals to humans. A slightly more technical definition is a disease that normally infects other animals, but can also infect humans. The reverse situation (transmission from human to animal) is known as anthroponosis.

dwerten · 02-10-2010, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mommadog1

Again, they cannot catch mange from dogs. They cannot live on humans.

yes they can humans can get scabies -sarcoptic mange but they cannot get demodex mange - my grandma had a yorkie that came with scabies from the breeder and she got it as well

read here where it says humans are affected

Sarcoptic Mange in Dogs

mismolly · 02-10-2010, 05:51 PM

Thank you!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mommadog1

again, they cannot catch mange from dogs. They cannot live on humans.

dwerten · 02-10-2010, 05:55 PM

contact Ronlynn

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/member.php?u=18477

she was sold a liver shunt yorkie and lives in california and she sued and won so see what she had to go through but she did win and she kept her dog

mommadog1 · 02-10-2010, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwerten

yes they can humans can get scabies -sarcoptic mange but they cannot get demodex mange - my grandma had a yorkie that came with scabies from the breeder and she got it as well

read here where it says humans are affected

Sarcoptic Mange in Dogs

I am telling you it is NOT the same thing.. And people cannot catch it from dogs, they cannot live on humans!!!!

Read this: Scabies Symptoms, Signs, Treatment Facts and Information on MedicineNet.com

mismolly · 02-10-2010, 06:01 PM

They just can bite us if they happen to leave the host and cause an itchy rash wish then goes away on it's own and the mites cannot live nor breed on humans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mommadog1

I am telling you it is NOT the same thing.. And people cannot catch it from dogs, they cannot live on humans!!!!

Read this: Scabies Symptoms, Signs, Treatment Facts and Information on MedicineNet.com

dwerten · 02-10-2010, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mommadog1

I am telling you it is NOT the same thing.. And people cannot catch it from dogs, they cannot live on humans!!!!

Read this: Scabies Symptoms, Signs, Treatment Facts and Information on MedicineNet.com

well my grandma had it and her dog was dipped three times to get rid of it and doctor gave her lotion as she had red rash all over her

yorkiediva2010 · 02-10-2010, 07:42 PM

MissMolly
The best way to fight a breeder is to hit their pocket! Here are a few
things you can check into:

Check with you state revenue and tax office to see if the breeder has a tax
i.d. # If not, major trouble for the breeder for not paying taxes.

Check to see if a license is required state, county, local.

Check to see if the land on which the kennel sits on is zoned for business.
If not file with the proper county office.

How did you pay for the puppy, cash, credit card, check.

If you paid by credit card, contact you cc company there is a built in
return policy on all card purchases.

Call your local health department and report that you were sold a puppy
that has illnesses that are contagious to humans.

Call your local Animal Control office and report this breeder for having
very sick and uncared for animals.

When you hit a puppymill in the pocket the pay attention. I hope at least
some of this may help you. Good Luck

mismolly · 02-10-2010, 08:48 PM

The mange that I saw under the microscope looked black and just like this picture here: Sarcoptic Mange

Not at all like the Scabie picture on the other link.

mommadog1 · 02-11-2010, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mismolly

The mange that I saw under the microscope looked black and just like this picture here: Sarcoptic Mange

Not at all like the Scabie picture on the other link.

Yeah, scabies in humans is different in dogs.

What I am mainly asking is did your vet say it was for sure Sarcoptic Mange, or did he say it was mange mites, or mites? The reason I ask is because my your description it sounds more like skin mites, AKA walking dandruff/Cheyletiella mite. Which is VERY common with puppies and they can be confused with other mange mites which will leave bare patches, scaly skin, severe itching, etc.

Here check out what I mean here, there are pics of the ugly mites too.. Mange- Demodetic, Sarcoptic and Cheyletiella

mommadog1 · 02-11-2010, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yorkiediva2010

MissMolly

How did you pay for the puppy, cash, credit card, check.

If you paid by credit card, contact you cc company there is a built in
return policy on all card purchases.
Good Luck

I tried that, when you do a charge back, or dispute the charges due to "product" being defective, you will have to return the item, in this case of course that would be the puppy.

I would stick first with contacting the breeder in regards to her not adhering to the CA puppy lemon laws, and then report her if she refuses to honor the LAW!!!

mismolly · 02-11-2010, 09:42 AM

I paid cash. I wasn't sure if I was going to tell my husband just how much I paid for her. I did end up telling him the truth however. I really hope this doesn't cause porblems for me (paying cash). I do show though on the contract the amount that I paid. Not to mention, any breeder who didn't get paid surely wouldn't have sent me $65 for the one fecal and one ALbon. She did it only because after being so rude to me, the man told her to pay it. They also said they would pay for NOTHING else, but I could take her back to them to take care of her. But again, I did not trust them to heal her problems without constantly re-infecting her, not to mention, they may never have given her back. I also believe it would have been far too stressful for Molly to go back there after adapting and depending on us to quickly. I am planning to work on my letter to them this afternoon. Plan to mail it out Monday via certified mail. I am not one in favor of suing, but in this instance I will if they refuse to work with me. I did call City Hall yesterday and they have no record of their kennel name in their system. I now know the Asian man's last name. Thanks to someone here.
QUOTE=mommadog1;2998391]I tried that, when you do a charge back, or dispute the charges due to "product" being defective, you will have to return the item, in this case of course that would be the puppy.

I would stick first with contacting the breeder in regards to her not adhering to the CA puppy lemon laws, and then report her if she refuses to honor the LAW!!![/QUOTE]

mismolly · 02-11-2010, 09:48 AM

She said "Sarcoptic Mange" and it is also written on my letter that she had wrote. And... I saw the thing myself under the microscope. Yuck, Yuck and YUCK! It looked just like this: Sarcoptic Mange

Quote:

Originally Posted by mommadog1

Yeah, scabies in humans is different in dogs.

What I am mainly asking is did your vet say it was for sure Sarcoptic Mange, or did he say it was mange mites, or mites? The reason I ask is because my your description it sounds more like skin mites, AKA walking dandruff/Cheyletiella mite. Which is VERY common with puppies and they can be confused with other mange mites which will leave bare patches, scaly skin, severe itching, etc.

Here check out what I mean here, there are pics of the ugly mites too.. Mange- Demodetic, Sarcoptic and Cheyletiella

mismolly · 02-11-2010, 09:50 AM

Oh and Molly also is looking like crap. Her hair on her head is VERY thinned out. She looks like she is becoming bald.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mismolly

She said "Sarcoptic Mange" and it is also written on my letter that she had wrote. And... I saw the thing myself under the microscope. Yuck, Yuck and YUCK! It looked just like this: Sarcoptic Mange

02-10-2010, 05:37 PM	#47
livingdustmops Princess Poop A Lot Donating Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 6,728	Demodectic mange Demodex canis Also called demodicosis or Red Mange, demodectic mange in dogs is caused by a sensitivity to and overpopulation of Demodex canis as the animal's immune system is unable to keep the mites under control. This is a mite that occurs naturally in the hair follicles of most dogs in low numbers around the face and other areas of the body. In most dogs, these mites never cause problems. However, in certain situations, such as an under-developed or impaired immune system, intense stress, or malnutrition, the mites can reproduce rapidly, causing symptoms in sensitive dogs that range from mild irritation and hair loss on a small patch of skin to severe and widespread inflammation, secondary infection, and—in rare cases—a life-threatening condition. Small patches of demodicosis often correct themselves over time as the dog's immune system matures, although treatment is usually recommended. Minor cases of demodectic mange usually do not cause much itching but might cause pustules on the dog's skin, redness, scaling, hair loss, or any combination of these. It most commonly appears first on the face, around the eyes, or at the corners of the mouth, and on the forelimbs and paws. In the more severe form, hair loss can occur in patches all over the body and might be accompanied by crusting, pain, enlarged lymph nodes, and deep skin infections. Demodectic mange is not generally contagious to people, other animals, or even other dogs (except from mother to pup). However, the mite is zoonotic, (see below) and, upon infesting a human, will generally live in the hair follicles of the eyelashes and eyebrows. These mites thrive only on very specific hosts (dogs) and transmission usually occurs only from the mother to nursing puppies during the first few days after birth. The transmission of these mites from mother to pup is normal (which is why the mites are normal inhabitants of the dog's skin), but some individuals are sensitive to the mites, which can lead to the development of demodectic mange. Some breeds appear to have an increased risk of mild cases as young dogs, including the Afghan Hound, American Staffordshire Terrier, Boston Terrier, Boxer, Chihuahua, Shar Pei, Collie, Dalmatian, Doberman Pinscher, Bulldog, English Bull Terrier, Miniature Bull Terrier, German Shepherd Dog, Great Dane, Old English Sheepdog, American Pit Bull Terrier, West Highland White Terrier, Rat Terrier, and Pug. There is strong evidence that a predilection for juvenile demodectic mange is inherited, and those suffering from this form should not be bred. Demodectic mange also occurs in other domestic and wild animals. The mites are specific to their hosts, and each mammal species is host to one or two unique species of Demodex mites. There are two types of demodectic mange in cats. Demodex cati causes follicular mange, similar to that seen in dogs, though it is much less common. Demodex gatoi is a more superficial form of mange, causes an itchy skin condition, and is contagious amongst cats. Treatment Localized demodectic mange is considered a common puppyhood ailment, with roughly 90% of cases resolving on their own with no treatment. Minor, localized cases are often treated with medicated shampoos and not treated with agents aimed at killing mites as these infestations often resolve within several weeks in young dogs. Demodectic mange with secondary infection is treated with antibiotics and medicated shampoos as well as parasiticidal agents. Amitraz is a parasiticidal rinse that is licensed for use in many countries for treating canine demodicosis. It is applied weekly or biweekly, for several weeks, until no mites can be detected by skin scrapings. Demodectic mange in dogs can also be managed with ivermectins, although there are few countries which license these drugs, which are given by mouth, daily, for this use. Ivermectin is used most frequently; collie-like herding breeds often do not tolerate this drug due to a defect in the blood-brain barrier, though not all of them have this defect. Other avermectin drugs that can be used include doramectin and milbemycin. Cats with Demodex gatoi must be treated with weekly or bi-weekly sulfurated lime rinses. Demodex cati are treated similarly to canine demodicosis. Sarcoptic mange Sarcoptes scabiei Also known as canine scabies, sarcoptic mange is a highly contagious infestation of Sarcoptes scabiei canis, a burrowing mite. The canine sarcoptic mite can also infest humans and cats, pigs, horses, sheep and various other species. These mites dig into and through the skin, causing intense itching and crusting that can quickly become infected. Hair loss and crusting frequently appear first on elbows and ears. Skin damage can occur from the dog's intense scratching and biting and secondary skin infection is common. Dogs with chronic sarcoptic mange are often in poor condition. Treatment Affected dogs need to be isolated from other dogs and their bedding, and places they have occupied must be thoroughly cleaned. Other dogs in contact with a diagnosed case should be evaluated and treated. There are a number of parasiticidal treatments useful in treating canine scabies. Sulfurated lime rinses applied weekly or bi-weekly are effective. Selamectin is licensed for treatment by veterinary prescription in several countries; it is applied as a drip-on directly to the skin. Unlicensed, but frequently used, ivermectin, given by mouth for two to four weekly treatments; this drug is not safe to use on some collie-like herding dogs, however. Other ivermectin drugs are also effective, but none is licensed for use on dogs. Diagnosis Veterinarians usually attempt diagnosis with skin scrapings from multiple areas, which are then examined under a microscope for mites. Sarcoptes, because they may be present in relatively low numbers, and because they are often removed by dogs chewing at themselves, may be difficult to demonstrate. As a result, diagnosis in Sarcoptic mange is often based on symptoms rather than actual confirmation of the presence of mites. A common and simple way of determining if a dog has mange is if it displays what is called a "Pedal-Pinna reflex", which is when the dog moves one of its hind legs in a scratching motion as the ear is being manipulated and scratched gently by the examiner; because the mites proliferate on the ear margins in nearly all cases at some point, this method works over 95% of the time.[3] It is helpful in cases where all symptoms of mange are present but no mites are observed with a microscope. In some countries, a serologic test is available that may be useful in diagnosis. For demodectic mange, properly performed deep skin scrapings generally allow the veterinarian to identify the microscopic mites. However because the mite is a normal inhabitant of the dog's skin, the presence of the mites does not conclusively mean the dog suffers from demodex. Rather abnormally high numbers of the mite are more useful. In breeds such as the West Highland White Terrier, relatively minor skin irritation which would otherwise be considered allergy should be carefully scraped because of the predilection of these dogs to demodectic mange. Skin scrapings may be used to follow the progress of treatment in demodectic mange. A zoonosis (pronounced /ˌzoʊ.əˈnoʊsɨs/) or zoonose[1] is any infectious disease that can be transmitted (in some instances, by a vector) from non-human animals, both wild and domestic, to humans or from humans to non-human animals (the latter is sometimes called reverse zoonosis). Many serious diseases fall under this category. The simplest definition of a zoonosis is a disease that can be transmitted from other vertebrate animals to humans. A slightly more technical definition is a disease that normally infects other animals, but can also infect humans. The reverse situation (transmission from human to animal) is known as anthroponosis. __________________ Cindy & The Rescued Gang Puppies Are Not Products!

02-10-2010, 07:42 PM	#54
yorkiediva2010 YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: usa Posts: 1	Fighting a Breeder MissMolly The best way to fight a breeder is to hit their pocket! Here are a few things you can check into: Check with you state revenue and tax office to see if the breeder has a tax i.d. # If not, major trouble for the breeder for not paying taxes. Check to see if a license is required state, county, local. Check to see if the land on which the kennel sits on is zoned for business. If not file with the proper county office. How did you pay for the puppy, cash, credit card, check. If you paid by credit card, contact you cc company there is a built in return policy on all card purchases. Call your local health department and report that you were sold a puppy that has illnesses that are contagious to humans. Call your local Animal Control office and report this breeder for having very sick and uncared for animals. When you hit a puppymill in the pocket the pay attention. I hope at least some of this may help you. Good Luck

02-11-2010, 09:42 AM	#58
mismolly Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Southern CA, USA Posts: 336 Blog Entries: 9	I paid cash. I wasn't sure if I was going to tell my husband just how much I paid for her. I did end up telling him the truth however. I really hope this doesn't cause porblems for me (paying cash). I do show though on the contract the amount that I paid. Not to mention, any breeder who didn't get paid surely wouldn't have sent me $65 for the one fecal and one ALbon. She did it only because after being so rude to me, the man told her to pay it. They also said they would pay for NOTHING else, but I could take her back to them to take care of her. But again, I did not trust them to heal her problems without constantly re-infecting her, not to mention, they may never have given her back. I also believe it would have been far too stressful for Molly to go back there after adapting and depending on us to quickly. I am planning to work on my letter to them this afternoon. Plan to mail it out Monday via certified mail. I am not one in favor of suing, but in this instance I will if they refuse to work with me. I did call City Hall yesterday and they have no record of their kennel name in their system. I now know the Asian man's last name. Thanks to someone here. QUOTE=mommadog1;2998391]I tried that, when you do a charge back, or dispute the charges due to "product" being defective, you will have to return the item, in this case of course that would be the puppy. I would stick first with contacting the breeder in regards to her not adhering to the CA puppy lemon laws, and then report her if she refuses to honor the LAW!!![/QUOTE] Last edited by mismolly; 02-11-2010 at 09:46 AM.

02-10-2010, 05:55 PM	#50
dwerten BANNED! Join Date: May 2007 Location: USA Posts: 11,073	contact Ronlynn http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/member.php?u=18477 she was sold a liver shunt yorkie and lives in california and she sued and won so see what she had to go through but she did win and she kept her dog

02-10-2010, 08:48 PM	#55
mismolly Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Southern CA, USA Posts: 336 Blog Entries: 9	The mange that I saw under the microscope looked black and just like this picture here: Sarcoptic Mange Not at all like the Scabie picture on the other link.