Does anyone know of any Parti/ Parti carrier breeder in Maine or New Hampshire

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

Look, this is ridiculous...she is not saying secrets....but there is more to the story. Who made the decision that these were Yorkies but they could not be shown. Was this negotiated? Did the two woman only care about their dogs being registered with AKC and not showing? Who knows what discussions took place. How long was the process? Where are the letters of documentation on the Parti's with the AKC?

You do need to consider conformation...it is part of the breeding process (the bitches size, width etc) and needs to be considered if you are breeding. I have never heard any of you talk about the gene that created this in the Parti's, why not. Do you believe it is a piebald recessive gene or a Irish Spotting gene or both?...The Parti is just a name...How often did the two ladies breed back to Yorkies or are they only breeding Parti to Parti now? Is this all you ladies are going to do?

The Parti's and the Biewers have not been in the lines forever...where ever did you get that idea?

Look, all of this went down in 1999 for the Parti's..maybe one day the Parti's can go into the showring...who knows...but if you ladies do not history of what really happened then 100 years from now everyone will be searching for the truth. The two woman are still alive so go get their side of the story and I hope it is written down by one of them. This is the problem with the Biewers...it is all based on here say and other garbage.

If you care about this breed and their betterment then digging for the truth is important.

Well woluld you care to share what more thereis to the story, so we can all be enlightened?

The AKC made the decision that theswe were pure bred partis after DNAing 42 litters of puppies and their parents. and after talking with other top show breeders who admitted to having had "more parti colored pups in their litters than Nikko ever had".

The decison NOT to allow them to be shown is teh YTCA's, lot the AKC's. the AKC is a breed registry not a color registry and the have to allow pure bred yorkies to be registered.

I do not know if they had hopes of being able to show them, they probably did since they were show breeders. But they believed that a litter born to two pure bred yorkies, should be allowed to be registered as yorkies and not tossed to the side or put to death.

The process took several years and several generations. I'm not sure on the exact duration. And I myself am in posession of a copy of the letter from the AKC stating that they were satisfied that the parti color is a natural part of the Yorkshire Terrier makeup. It was agreed that every parti puppy would be evaluated individually through photos as to wshether or not they would be issued a certrificate.

I do consider conformation. But first the dog must be healthy, if it does not meet that test it is not considered for breeding, second it must have a good temperament, if it does not meet that criteria it is not considered for breeding. conformation comes after that.

There was a thread a while back where show breeders admitted that conformatilon came before health and temperament. I find that disturbing. that will lead to the same problems that were revealed in that video.

Others admitted to dying the coats, trimming the feet to hide feet that were turned in or out and all types of enhancements.

They are not showing dogs with propeer conformation, they are making dogs look like they conform. It is nothing more than a beauty pagent. FAKE

I have partis that could probably be shown if I dyed their hair.

As for the name of the gene, I do not know.

Loryn Bogren at Crownridge still breeds partis to carriers. As for me I have a parti stud now, he is not old enough yet, I also have a golden that is a parti carrier.

If you follow the yorkshire terrier breed back to it's origin, you will see that some of the dogs that were used to create the yhorkie were spotted. The gene has been there all along.

Joan Gorden talks of tri colored puppies and how they were incorrect and should be culled.

Before Sue White and I got to researching, there was very little out there on the parti color. We researched and dug up every bit of information we could find. We did not just go into this blind. We went right to the source.

As for the Biewers, I do not know. I am interested in everything I read about it and curious as to whether or not the parti and the Biewer did have the same origin. I have no input on that, I'm learning. And I am open to any sound piece of information that anyone comes up with on the parti, although I doubt there is much out there that we have missed.

So you see, we have gotten their side of the story and their breedings are well documented.

I have nothing aginst show breeders, I have nothing against anyone, I can disagree with someone ln olne thread and joke with them on the next. I do not know you personally, I ssume that you are a very nice person. I assume everyone is nice until I find out otherwise.

But the whole disreputable BYB thing is getting a little old. Every breed that has been created has been done so by people who think outside the box. That does not mean that we do not have ethics

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Your right, where did secrets come into play. All that was said that there were things that went down behind the scenes. I would not share them at this point because I want to make sure my facts are straight.

I really don't know why whenever there is discussion about Partis' things must become an argument, people read into things and put words into other's posts.

There are those of us that believe there is one yorkie standard and will continue to breed to that standard.

Perhaps we do get a little overly defensive. We're pretty used to being called unethical and disreputable and BYB's so whenever any of those words come up in a thread about partis, I automatically get defensive and start to think the worst.

If you read the OP's question and then read the next post directing her to the YTCA to look for reputable breeders, how else could that be interpreted.

She did later take it back but by then the thread had already gone off in the wrong direction.

[YorkyDiva]

Look at this. Have the other colors like Parti, Chocolate, golden ever been allowed to show?

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by YorkyDiva

Look at this. Have the other colors like Parti, Chocolate, golden ever been allowed to show?

This is the AKC alternate color page.

I don't think alternate colored yorkies have been allowed to show in AKC conformation events.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

This is the AKC alternate color page.

I don't think alternate colored yorkies have been allowed to show in AKC conformation events.

The parti number is not on there, it is 014. And the black and tan and black and gold used to be able to be shown until they recently DQ'd them.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Perhaps we do get a little overly defensive. We're pretty used to being called unethical and disreputable and BYB's so whenever any of those words come up in a thread about partis, I automatically get defensive and start to think the worst.

I understand why you would feel the way you do if you don't feel you fit the stereotype. I've been there myself in situations and it's not a good feeling. But, if you are confident in what you are doing, then you're not one of the 'types' others are being warned about. I realize that you take it personally, but I don't think it is meant as a personal dig the way you seem to be taking it.
These same comments regarding unethical breeders that you are getting sick of are the SAME warnings regarding disreputable breeders of standard color Yorkies as well. There are shady breeders of Partis and standard color Yorkies alike and I see BOTH discussed in the same manner and the same types of warnings issued. I would advise anyone looking to get a "parti/chocolate/golden" of the same thing--watch out for unethical breeders trying to scam you and make sure you do your homework and consider all views on the situation FIRST. I would make the same recommendation to someone looking for a standard colored Yorkie as well. That is all I see happening here...is that a bad thing? There are lots of shady breeders of standard Yorkies as well that people are warned about, but I don't see standard breeders feeling singled out or getting upset over it in the same fashion.

To be honest, this subject has been run into the ground over and over again and it always yields the same result--the threads eventually get locked and no resolution is reached. I believe that is because truthfully, neither "side" is looking for a resolution. Both sides here are very passionate about what they believe and I don't think that either side is going to change the other's mind.
Obviously, the Parti breeders that post regularly here feel that they are doing extensive research, trying to produce healthy dogs, and taking the right steps and doing what they can to achieve their goals in the most ethical way possible. Then on the flip side, there are those who stand firmly behind sticking to the standard and not deviating from it at all. What does it matter!? We are all allowed opinions, are we not?
If YTCA members and/or those who value the standard as it is want to voice their opposition to deviating from that...SO WHAT? They are entitled to voice their opinions and why they feel that way. The same is true for those who breed Partis. Why is it so difficult to just state your opinion and assume that anyone reading is intelligent enough to consider both sides and form their own opinion. (I mean, they were smart enough to navigate the internet, weren't they?)

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

I understand why you would feel the way you do if you don't feel you fit the stereotype. I've been there myself in situations and it's not a good feeling. But, if you are confident in what you are doing, then you're not one of the 'types' others are being warned about. I realize that you take it personally, but I don't think it is meant as a personal dig the way you seem to be taking it.
These same comments regarding unethical breeders that you are getting sick of are the SAME warnings regarding disreputable breeders of standard color Yorkies as well. There are shady breeders of Partis and standard color Yorkies alike and I see BOTH discussed in the same manner and the same types of warnings issued. I would advise anyone looking to get a "parti/chocolate/golden" of the same thing--watch out for unethical breeders trying to scam you and make sure you do your homework and consider all views on the situation FIRST. I would make the same recommendation to someone looking for a standard colored Yorkie as well. That is all I see happening here...is that a bad thing? There are lots of shady breeders of standard Yorkies as well that people are warned about, but I don't see standard breeders feeling singled out or getting upset over it in the same fashion.

To be honest, this subject has been run into the ground over and over again and it always yields the same result--the threads eventually get locked and no resolution is reached. I believe that is because truthfully, neither "side" is looking for a resolution. Both sides here are very passionate about what they believe and I don't think that either side is going to change the other's mind.
Obviously, the Parti breeders that post regularly here feel that they are doing extensive research, trying to produce healthy dogs, and taking the right steps and doing what they can to achieve their goals in the most ethical way possible. Then on the flip side, there are those who stand firmly behind sticking to the standard and not deviating from it at all. What does it matter!? We are all allowed opinions, are we not?
If YTCA members and/or those who value the standard as it is want to voice their opposition to deviating from that...SO WHAT? They are entitled to voice their opinions and why they feel that way. The same is true for those who breed Partis. Why is it so difficult to just state your opinion and assume that anyone reading is intelligent enough to consider both sides and form their own opinion. (I mean, they were smart enough to navigate the internet, weren't they?)

I take it personally when it is said that anyone who breeds outside of the standard is unethical, a BYB, disreputable, ruining the breed, in it for the money, the list goes on.

They put all parti breeders in the same category. If you read the second post, it is very clear that she is saying that anyone who breeds partis is not reputable. In fact it indicates that anyone not a member of the YTCA is not reputable.

I have been in these discussions with show breeders who believe that they should breed to standard, but they do not believe that those who do not breed to standard are unethical.

The fact that I was pointing out is that NOT ALL show breeders or YTCA members are ethical either.

Some believe that the parti color should not be bred, I believe it should not be left out.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

I understand why you would feel the way you do if you don't feel you fit the stereotype. I've been there myself in situations and it's not a good feeling. But, if you are confident in what you are doing, then you're not one of the 'types' others are being warned about. I realize that you take it personally, but I don't think it is meant as a personal dig the way you seem to be taking it.
These same comments regarding unethical breeders that you are getting sick of are the SAME warnings regarding disreputable breeders of standard color Yorkies as well. There are shady breeders of Partis and standard color Yorkies alike and I see BOTH discussed in the same manner and the same types of warnings issued. I would advise anyone looking to get a "parti/chocolate/golden" of the same thing--watch out for unethical breeders trying to scam you and make sure you do your homework and consider all views on the situation FIRST. I would make the same recommendation to someone looking for a standard colored Yorkie as well. That is all I see happening here...is that a bad thing? There are lots of shady breeders of standard Yorkies as well that people are warned about, but I don't see standard breeders feeling singled out or getting upset over it in the same fashion.

To be honest, this subject has been run into the ground over and over again and it always yields the same result--the threads eventually get locked and no resolution is reached. I believe that is because truthfully, neither "side" is looking for a resolution. Both sides here are very passionate about what they believe and I don't think that either side is going to change the other's mind.
Obviously, the Parti breeders that post regularly here feel that they are doing extensive research, trying to produce healthy dogs, and taking the right steps and doing what they can to achieve their goals in the most ethical way possible. Then on the flip side, there are those who stand firmly behind sticking to the standard and not deviating from it at all. What does it matter!? We are all allowed opinions, are we not?
If YTCA members and/or those who value the standard as it is want to voice their opposition to deviating from that...SO WHAT? They are entitled to voice their opinions and why they feel that way. The same is true for those who breed Partis. Why is it so difficult to just state your opinion and assume that anyone reading is intelligent enough to consider both sides and form their own opinion. (I mean, they were smart enough to navigate the internet, weren't they?)

Great post! That is the way I see it too. I dont judge the parti breeders who want to produce beautiful healthy partis and I dont judge the show breeder who only agrees with breeding to the standard. There are always going to be differences in opinions when it comes to breeding and thats what makes the forum unique. Just state your opinion and let others decide for themselves

[YorkyDiva]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

This is the AKC alternate color page.

I don't think alternate colored yorkies have been allowed to show in AKC conformation events.

The title of the page dated 3-15-93 is "Breed codes information" Then for the Yorkshire terrier. And has all the colors including the ones not DQ'd now.

JeannieK, if you will scroll down it has a Markings used in this breed with 014 White Markings.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by YorkyDiva

The title of the page dated 3-15-93 is "Breed codes information" Then for the Yorkshire terrier. And has all the colors including the ones not DQ'd now.

JeannieK, if you will scroll down it has a Markings used in this breed with 014 White Markings.

I guess I didn't scroll down far enough. So evidently the white markings were showing up in 93

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

I take it personally when it is said that anyone who breeds outside of the standard is unethical, a BYB, disreputable, ruining the breed, in it for the money, the list goes on.

They put all parti breeders in the same category. If you read the second post, it is very clear that she is saying that anyone who breeds partis is not reputable. In fact it indicates that anyone not a member of the YTCA is not reputable.

I have been in these discussions with show breeders who believe that they should breed to standard, but they do not believe that those who do not breed to standard are unethical.

The fact that I was pointing out is that NOT ALL show breeders or YTCA members are ethical either.

Some believe that the parti color should not be bred, I believe it should not be left out.

I just want to clarify for me of course, while I'm a YTCA member I have quite a few GREAT reputable breeder friends that are NOT members of the YTCA
And yes of course I believe you shouldn't breed the Parti because it is what I've stated many times deviating from the standard. Have I ever said any one that breeds Parti's unethical or BYB's? NO I have not! I don't agree with it because I will always stand behind the breed standard because I AM involved in showing and I will always follow the standard as closely as possible. Do I think those that are purposely breeding Parti's are breeding wrong of course or I wouldn't be standing behind my principals. I know you respect my principals as you posted before. But in no way am I going to say anyone is unethical unless I know for sure and first hand that one is not breeding for the right reasons and not breeding for health and not for the money and not knowing what they are doing.
Do I have some that I would stir someone away from if asked of course I would but not on a public forum or in writing.
I don't get defensive regarding my breeding practices because I am confident in what I'm doing I will never defend what I do because again I have nothing to hide
I hope this clarifies my standings regarding this issue. I won't change my mind until the standard changes

Donna

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

I just want to clarify for me of course, while I'm a YTCA member I have quite a few GREAT reputable breeder friends that are NOT members of the YTCA
And yes of course I believe you shouldn't breed the Parti because it is what I've stated many times deviating from the standard. Have I ever said any one that breeds Parti's unethical or BYB's? NO I have not! I don't agree with it because I will always stand behind the breed standard because I AM involved in showing and I will always follow the standard as closely as possible. Do I think those that are purposely breeding Parti's are breeding wrong of course or I wouldn't be standing behind my principals. I know you respect my principals as you posted before. But in no way am I going to say anyone is unethical unless I know for sure and first hand that one is not breeding for the right reasons and not breeding for health and not for the money and not knowing what they are doing.
Do I have some that I would stir someone away from if asked of course I would but not on a public forum or in writing.
I don't get defensive regarding my breeding practices because I am confident in what I'm doing I will never defend what I do because again I have nothing to hide
I hope this clarifies my standings regarding this issue. I won't change my mind until the standard changes

Donna

And that is the way it should be. Belonging to anyone one group of people does not mean that you are good or you are bad. It just means that is the way you believe.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

I take it personally when it is said that anyone who breeds outside of the standard is unethical, a BYB, disreputable, ruining the breed, in it for the money, the list goes on.

That's exactly my point. If someone feels that people should be breeding only to achieve the standard as it currently stands, then that is THEIR opinion and what THEY value--they are just as entitled to their opinions as you are. Do you believe it? Do you not think that both sides state their opinions and reasons why feel differently that people are smart enought to consider both sides and make their minds up for themselves? (I personally get tired of seeing it insinuated all who oppose breeding Partis believe that those produced should be culled...but I don't go looking to be offended by the statement.) You say that you don't agree with the YTCA and don't want anything to do with them...then why do their opinons matter so much to you? It seems to me that you are inadvertantly lumping them all into one category based off the actions of a few...the same thing that you are upset over having done to you. Just sayin...
You claim you are getting tired of seeing the comments made...maybe they are equally as tired of seeing you state the opposite. Does that make them right? Nope...no more than it makes you right. In the end, they are both just opinions.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

That's exactly my point. If someone feels that people should be breeding only to achieve the standard as it currently stands, then that is THEIR opinion and what THEY value--they are just as entitled to their opinions as you are. Do you believe it? Do you not think that both sides state their opinions and reasons why feel differently that people are smart enought to consider both sides and make their minds up for themselves? (I personally get tired of seeing it insinuated all who oppose breeding Partis believe that those produced should be culled...but I don't go looking to be offended by the statement.) You say that you don't agree with the YTCA and don't want anything to do with them...then why do their opinons matter so much to you? It seems to me that you are inadvertantly lumping them all into one category based off the actions of a few...the same thing that you are upset over having done to you. Just sayin...
You claim you are getting tired of seeing the comments made...maybe they are equally as tired of seeing you state the opposite. Does that make them right? Nope...no more than it makes you right. In the end, they are both just opinions.

All I give are my opinions and my principals. I NEVER get upset for stating my beliefs and breeding practices because I am doing what I believe to be the right way and if for any reason I didn't think that then maybe I would get offended or defensive (not saying that's the case for anyone else).
Do I get ticked when I believe something isn't being done the right way? You betcha! But never when someone questions my breeding practices or beliefs because once again LOL...I have nothing to hide
Are there some people on YT I think shouldn't be breeding "YOU BETCHA" and I'm talking plain ole yorkies...is there some on this site that makes themselves sound reputable and not be? YOU BETCHA but I"ll never bash them or point them out on a public forum or in writing because of defamtion of character. But I personally know of some breeding practices I would definetly stay away from on this site. Again, my personal opinion
I like quite a few people on this site even those that do have Parti's and we both have agreed to disagree and be friends so it can be done

Donna

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

That's exactly my point. If someone feels that people should be breeding only to achieve the standard as it currently stands, then that is THEIR opinion and what THEY value--they are just as entitled to their opinions as you are. Do you believe it? Do you not think that both sides state their opinions and reasons why feel differently that people are smart enought to consider both sides and make their minds up for themselves? (I personally get tired of seeing it insinuated all who oppose breeding Partis believe that those produced should be culled...but I don't go looking to be offended by the statement.) You say that you don't agree with the YTCA and don't want anything to do with them...then why do their opinons matter so much to you? It seems to me that you are inadvertantly lumping them all into one category based off the actions of a few...the same thing that you are upset over having done to you. Just sayin...
You claim you are getting tired of seeing the comments made...maybe they are equally as tired of seeing you state the opposite. Does that make them right? Nope...no more than it makes you right. In the end, they are both just opinions.

I have never called show breeders, as a group, unethical, disreputable, etc. I have alwasy said that it is the individual breeder, not the group.

I have been in agreement with you, but now it sounds like you are trying to get me to argue with you, by saying that I feel show breeders are unethical, which I have NEVER said.

As for their opinions mattering to me. What matters to me is the constant barrage of insults.

I responed to the second post, which clearly indicated that she felt all parti breeders are disreputable and all YTCA members are reputable. And it should have been left at that.