I am praying for you!

Sometimes if you make the stand to push it helps them.

First puppy born at 12......born with intestines outside its body. I can't talk about it....I almost passed out on the phone with the vet.

Second pup..boy....born 12:17....a bruiser at 6.3 ounces.

Third pup....boy...born at 12:28....5.5 ounces.

Unsure if she is having one more...I thought maybe but it's been a while now.

Two placentas inside....will call vet in a.m.

Mom seems just fine. Can't type...gotta go for a bit.....

Sorry about the first pup. I hope the others are doing well. How is momma doing?

I am so sorry about the first one. I'm glad that the other 2 got here okay. How are they this morning?

Marc,

I am very,very sorry about the first pup. Hope Mama and boys are o.k this morning. Those are some good-sized boys. It sounds like things went fast once it got started. Marc, you did well and so did your mama.

Hope momma and boys are doing ok.

So sorry about your first boy.

Sorry to hear about your boy!!!

How is mama and the other two doing this morning?

I am sorry to hear about the first boy, but congrats on the other two babies! I hope that all went well over night, and that you are getting some well deserved sleep right now.

Congratulations on the two boys. sorry about the first pup.
hope mama and you get some rest.
hugs,
Carmen in nj

Thank you all.

Mom and pups did great all night. Only sounds I heard was them sucking :)

I will weigh them in just a minute. But if they suck all night and aren't fussing or crying they should be getting milk, right?

My experience with the first pup was terrifying. It happened all so fast. The pup came out and I noticed right away that the intestines were there. It was pup against vulva....mom went crazy as this was her first ever pup and I think she thought the intestine was placenta...and started chewing. Pup was screaming....mom was more frantic trying to help her...all the while I am trying to get in between them and get enough cord that is in momma to cut baby loose. Finally I managed it and had to whisk her away because momma wanted to keep "cleaning" and "chewing". So, I had mom running frantic while I had the pup and the kids dialed vet for me......long story short...I was drenched in sweat from the stress of it, and nearly passed out.

Had no time. Number two and three came like 10 minutes apart. Those went much better.....though there was about half an inch of cord between out pup and mom. She had long cleaned them...she got the sacks off and got them going real good. I aspirated to help her out. But that is how they stayed so she started chewing RIGHT cord right beside moms belly. This was so long of that length that one pup even moved herself to drink. So, I got hold of what I could and gently pulled even just enoough so I could cut the right length or as close as I could.

I pray these boys do well. I pray my mom does well. I have many questions now and will call the vet when they open.

Like, she ate no placenta. Do I need special diet now?
Two are in her....when can she get the shot?

I am so sorry you lost the little boy. That happened to me once and my vet said it is just a freak occurence and no ones fault. Your mama needs the shot this morning. IF she does have retained placentas, it will help her expel them and prevent infection. As far as special diet, I just give my mama's aa few extra meals a day when nursing and make sure that one of them is whelping pudding mixed with her other food. i don't think you will have to worry too much about extra calcuim with only two babies. I know some breeders don't agree but I also give my girls about a tablespoon of cottage cheese once a day when they are nursing. Congratulations on your babies!!!!!!!

Ok, I just talked to the vet assistant. She said to wait a few days and see if she is discharging black/green or bloody in which case she still has them in her. I saw the first one after the first pup....but had to cut the cord on the other two and never saw placenta. Could she have passed them at night and ate them? She is perfectly clean down there. What happens if she gets the shot and there was no retained placenta?

Now, do I let momma eat as much as she wants? She scarfed down about three tbsp of whelping pudding, a whole scrambled egg and even a bit of her own food this morning when she left the box for the first time! How much of what do these nursing moms need?

Thanks so much. They both are up .1 of an ounce since during the night. I believe they are getting what they need as they never cry like they aren't. They are both nice and warm as mom choses to lay on the side that has the heating pad. I have a couple layers of blanket on top of the pad.

Anyway, do I wait it out and see if she discharges and then I know for sure that there is placenta in there still?

The pups are going thursday for tails and dewclaw.

I will have plenty of questions.

I did make a decision to get her fixed. Though she herself was in no danger....the stress she was under with the first pup being whisked away...she ran the house out of control from stress and confusion. I just love her too much to have a repeat of that. I told myself before I started this that if something went wrong....or she was under stress....then I would spay her. I love her too much to put her through that again. And frankly, I myself have learnt that I cannot witness something to that degree again....which takes me out breeding. I LOVED to do all the reading and learning and dont regret that for one minute. I will just be a cheerleader for others from here on out :)

I just love her too much.

I am sorry to read about the first puppy....but great news about your other precious boys! You did really really good....you handled that situation better than I would have, for sure!

Can't wait to see pictures of your new family members. :)

Tammy

Agreed,

Shot should be given this morning; not only necessary for to help and eleminate placentia, dead tissue, getting her uterus back into shape, but assist in the let down of milk. Cottage Cheese, Cheese, Whelping pudding, yogurt....etc......I usually keep mom on a puppy food diet, feeding 4 or 5 meals a day. Calcium Tablet is probably not needed with 2 pups......but, for a natural source of calcium a scrammbled egg a day.....and sunshine for vitamin D to absorb the calcium. Watch mom for mastitis

The first 24 hours pups may just be obtaining colostrum from mom.....mother's milk will increase as pups gain strength and demand more from her......

If your pups are warm, fed and diapered....you will hear no crying......they are very content with just mom and each other.

Get CalSorb to keep on hand.....or Oral Cal Plus (better tasting) you can order from Revival.com

Congratulations on your new litter. Sorry to hear that you lost one.

No, don't wait....get her in....waiting can cost her her life....infection sets in too fast. There are other reasons to have a POP shot. Get her in.....Be insistent. This is your girl....be an active participant in her medical care......waiting for her to show signs of infection is too late.....it'll be harder on her, the pups and you. If you want PM FLDebra, she'll share her experience with you....she lost her girl.

Let mom eat as much as she wants

What your girl did when she lost her pup is very, very natural....It's there mom's instinct setting in.....she knew something was wrong, but didn't know how to fix it......

You went through this experience and found it wasn't for you.......Breeding isn't for the faint of heart.....This breed can and will bring you to your knees.

Prayers are with you.

What are the ramifications to giving that shot and there is not placenta in there? My vet assistant seems to not think it necessary unless over the next few days she discharges, doesn't want to feed her babies, fever....some signs.

Shes not worried about the calcium either with two pups. I will make sure she gets scrambled egg and stuff to be sure.

Your feelings are EXACTLY what I immediately felt after my Livi had her first litter!! I was determined to NEVER breed again! We went through so much and every single loss made me more intent on not doing this again. So, I completely understand what you are saying. With me, my husband asked me to wait just to see how I felt in a few months. After raising her one surviving puppy...and falling soooooooo madly in love with him and the whole process of watching him grow, I decided to try breeding one more time. In fact, my Livi could be pregnant right now. But, I will be ready to throw the towel in if something goes wrong again. I have a whole new found respect for the long-time breeders!!! I knew that a lot went into breeding, but never could feel how much of the heart and soul goes in until I went through it first-hand.

You have to do what is right for you....I just thought that I would throw that out there. :)

Tammy

There are no ramifications.....I make it a common practice to administer a POP shot....it assits in getting her getting her uterus back into place, removal of any dead tissue, and the let down of milk............Sorry, I don't agree with your vet tech at all.........Why wait for signs of trouble......at the point of trouble she'll have to be on antibiotics. The only ramification if it is administered too soon after a whelp....uterine prolapse. I've administered it, with my vet's instructions between pups, when my girl was lagging behind, to increase contractions.

Oxcytocin shots are administered after a woman delivers babies for the same purposes.

I don't know how you feel about holistic medicine but when my son's taffy ( Jack Rusell) gave birth she had a retained placenta, and my vet also suggested waiting 24 hrs. I called my holistic vet and she suggested to give her half a cup of "red rabsberry leaf tea" mixed with 1/4 teaspoon of karo syrop, and within 20 minutes she had expeled the placenta, she also said it will help with milk production and uterous cleaning, I am very glad I did , taffy had her babies in january and it was super cold the last thing I wanted was to drag them into that cold..
HTH,
Carmen in nj

Funny, I administer rasberry tea leaf syrup throughout my girls pregnancies.

he,he, I been doing that with my Chanel too.. I LOVE my holistic Vet, and let me tell you it works.. I love it..she said that the tea is a bit stronger when brew and it would give her the necesarry push for the placentas to come out and you know what? it works for menopausal problems too..LOL I am taking it and no more hot flashes...:D:D I understand a lot of pregnat ladies are drinking too..my local GNC can barely keep it on the shelves..

That is very interesting! Thank you for sharing this!

Mary, why do you give them this during their pregnancies....does it help to comfort them?? How much do you give to them?

I use to give clean out shots until I had a bitch have a bad reaction to the shot. My vet advised me that you need to wait at least 24 hours after the pups are born before giving the shot. The pups suckling on the momma will stimulate the uterus to contract and most of the time the placentas will pass a few hours after the pups are born and the mom will usually eat it.

Tara did not pass her last placenta. I took her in the next morning for the shot. I didn't want to take a chance of infection.

I felt just like you my last whelping. I lost the first one at birth. The second boy I lost in 2 week after tube feeding him every 2 hours. He gained weight the day before he died and I thought he might make it...sadly he didn't. I said I would never do this again. After a few months I was ready again. First time mom's do get nervous they don't know what is going on.

Barb,

If you wait 24 hours....Per my repro vet she has already closed......that is what causes the infection if a placenta is retained......shot should be given 6 to 12 hours after whelp........

Pups stimulating mothers isn't always the case....especially if infection is setting in, mother will be reluctant to nurse.

hmmmm, good to know, I did not know that, now I am SO GLAD , I did called my holistic vet and I gave Taffy the tea remedy. I guess it depends on the vet. I am asking my son to bring home an oxy shot JUST in case..LOL
hugs,
carmen in nj

Given during the last trimester, it strenghtens the uterine walls to assist her in the whelp.....supposedly, and I haven't a clue if this is true, it's suppose to help with her whelping pains. But, what I did find and purely by accident, by not administering (can't tell you why, I just plain forgot) I found a difference in the thickness of the umbilical cord......don't know if that had anything to do with it......but, without it the umbilical cord was not as thick and healthy looking. Also, administer folic acid during the last trimester.

Carmen,

Please don't administer during the whelp without your vet or son's instructions......Administering it prior to the first pup can cause premature placenta seperation........What my vet does is take an x-ray......loads up the number of shots (1/4 cc) to match the number of pups that he views in the x-ray.....with instructions.....if you don't need these don't give, unless you've contacted me.......The one shot you can give is after all whelp is completed and not too soon.