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carmen in nj 11-16-2009 09:21 AM
my son is a vet tech and I will call him if need be he is here in the downstairs apartment, he is not a fan of oxy we had this conversation already..LOL
but since Chanel is a maiden bitch I want to be ready, I will have a long conversation with my vet on wenesday when I go for xrays..
I was only thinking about a cleaning shot after whelp, I have read a lot about it and I know never to give it to a girl before or during whelping. at least that is what I know from talking to my mentor and other breeders..
thank you very much Mary, I will keep your advise in my head..

carmen in nj 11-16-2009 09:29 AM
oh I just want to add, I am a bit more nervous this time around because Chanel is due thanksgiving week and I know everything will be closed and people will be on vacations, so I just want to be super prepared for this whelping if that is even remotely possible..:confused:
hugs,
carmen in nj

Mardelin 11-16-2009 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carmen in nj (Post 2882785)
my son is a vet tech and I will call him if need be he is here in the downstairs apartment, he is not a fan of oxy we had this conversation already..LOL
but since Chanel is a maiden bitch I want to be ready, I will have a long conversation with my vet on wenesday when I go for xrays..
I was only thinking about a cleaning shot after whelp, I have read a lot about it and I know never to give it to a girl before or during whelping. at least that is what I know from talking to my mentor and other breeders..
thank you very much Mary, I will keep your advise in my head..
I really understand some's reluctance in administering the Oxy shot......if administered incorrectly it can create a problem

Mardelin 11-16-2009 09:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carmen in nj (Post 2882796)
oh I just want to add, I am a bit more nervous this time around because Chanel is due thanksgiving week and I know everything will be closed and people will be on vacations, so I just want to be super prepared for this whelping if that is even remotely possible..:confused:
hugs,
carmen in nj
Oh no, I remember my first whelp......during an ice storm.......had difficulty getting the first pup through the birth canal (lil bugger's head was a bit too big).....I was on the phone to my mentor, asking what to do....she told me about the dialating of the vaginal opening with KY........thank goodness it worked. Cause my next step would have been to weather the ice storm and drive the 26 miles to my vet.......

Sugar's Mom 11-16-2009 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc (Post 2882633)
What are the ramifications to giving that shot and there is not placenta in there? My vet assistant seems to not think it necessary unless over the next few days she discharges, doesn't want to feed her babies, fever....some signs.

Shes not worried about the calcium either with two pups. I will make sure she gets scrambled egg and stuff to be sure.
that vet assistant is wrong and waiting could cost your girls life .

Mardelin 11-16-2009 10:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom (Post 2882819)
that vet assistant is wrong and waiting could cost your girls life .
Very much agree with you.......If one is unsure of an intact expulsion of an intact placenta presented itself, a pop shot is in order......assisting the uterus to clamp down to expel it as well as fetal mebranes.

WV~Yorkies 11-16-2009 10:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom (Post 2882819)
that vet assistant is wrong and waiting could cost your girls life .

I agree.. that is why I took Tara first thing the next morning. I didn't want to take any chances.

TammyJM 11-16-2009 10:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 2882777)
Given during the last trimester, it strenghtens the uterine walls to assist her in the whelp.....supposedly, and I haven't a clue if this is true, it's suppose to help with her whelping pains. But, what I did find and purely by accident, by not administering (can't tell you why, I just plain forgot) I found a difference in the thickness of the umbilical cord......don't know if that had anything to do with it......but, without it the umbilical cord was not as thick and healthy looking. Also, administer folic acid during the last trimester.
Thank you so much, Mary!! I am all for traditional medicine, but I am also big on the natural approach to anything health related (safely, of course!). I have heard that the raspberry tea can help with menstrual pain....don't know if this is true or not.

Can I ask where you get yours and how much/often you give to your mommas in the last trimester? Also, same thing with the folic acid??

Thanks Mary! Anything that I can do to help Livi through this is greatly appreciated!!!

Tammy

carmen in nj 11-16-2009 11:00 AM
I can tell you that the red rabsberry leaf works on menopausal hot flashes..:D I was having such a hard time with them, and my gyn doc wanted me on hormones therapy, and I am terrified of those, so my holistic VET...:lol tearsyes, VET were talking one day I happen to mention it and she told me to drink the same tea she had recomended for Taffy twice a day, for breakfast and before I went to bed and 7 days later NO MORE hot flashes.. :) so what can I say I LOVE my holistic Vet...LOL

JeanieK 11-16-2009 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TammyJM (Post 2882644)
Your feelings are EXACTLY what I immediately felt after my Livi had her first litter!! I was determined to NEVER breed again! We went through so much and every single loss made me more intent on not doing this again. So, I completely understand what you are saying. With me, my husband asked me to wait just to see how I felt in a few months. After raising her one surviving puppy...and falling soooooooo madly in love with him and the whole process of watching him grow, I decided to try breeding one more time. In fact, my Livi could be pregnant right now. But, I will be ready to throw the towel in if something goes wrong again. I have a whole new found respect for the long-time breeders!!! I knew that a lot went into breeding, but never could feel how much of the heart and soul goes in until I went through it first-hand.

You have to do what is right for you....I just thought that I would throw that out there. :)

Tammy
Tammy. Congratulations. I hope things go better for you this time.

TammyJM 11-16-2009 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2882925)
Tammy. Congratulations. I hope things go better for you this time.
Thanks Jeanie! This was a VERY tough decision after everything that happened!! I just hope that things go better this time. As nervous as I am, I cannot believe how excited I am at the possibity of getting to raise more puppies....I absolutely LOVED this part....even more than I thought that I would!!! :)

Tammy

JeanieK 11-16-2009 11:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TammyJM (Post 2882938)
Thanks Jeanie! This was a VERY tough decision after everything that happened!! I just hope that things go better this time. As nervous as I am, I cannot believe how excited I am at the possibity of getting to raise more puppies....I absolutely LOVED this part....even more than I thought that I would!!! :)

Tammy
I can imagine how tough it was to make that decision. If my first experience had been bad I might have given up. But I really do love it.

I've been researching the rasberry tea and mostsay to start around week 7. I think I will try it with the next one.

Mardelin 11-16-2009 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TammyJM (Post 2882894)
Thank you so much, Mary!! I am all for traditional medicine, but I am also big on the natural approach to anything health related (safely, of course!). I have heard that the raspberry tea can help with menstrual pain....don't know if this is true or not.

Can I ask where you get yours and how much/often you give to your mommas in the last trimester? Also, same thing with the folic acid??

Thanks Mary! Anything that I can do to help Livi through this is greatly appreciated!!!

Tammy
I get mine through Revivalanimal.com I only give during the last trimester and through till she is done weaning......instructions on quantities are given on the container.

The folic acid I give via Concept A Bitch, now very difficult to find......can't remember where I got my last batch from.....but, I only administer during the last trimester too......and only 3 times a week (just my choice........The product I think you can get folic acid from is Bitch Pills......also via revival animal. The folic acid is of course for the benefit of the pups......

carmen in nj 11-16-2009 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2882943)
I can imagine how tough it was to make that decision. If my first experience had been bad I might have given up. But I really do love it.

I've been researching the rasberry tea and mostsay to start around week 7. I think I will try it with the next one.
this is a little write up, I got about the use of red rabsberry leaf
Raspberry Leaves for Dogs

One of the most beneficial supplements that you can add to your bitch's diet is raspberry leaves. Whether in herb or in powder form, this is one of the most important of all the herbs for pregnancy. Be very sure, however, that you don't use "raspberry tea" as this tea doesn't contain the raspberry leaves at all.

Raspberry leaves help the strengthen uterine walls, helps reduce labour pain, ease delivery and generally helps to expel afterbirths. [Retention of afterbirth can cause serious infections in the mother.]

Raspberry leaves also contain Vitamin C [which will help build strong bones in the puppies and keep mom's bones strong], calcium as well as Vitamins A, B, D, E, G and H, manganese, phosphorus and is rich in iron. Raspberry leaves enrich colostrum in the bitch's milk and consumption after delivery will help reduce uterine swelling and reduce post partum bleeding.

This herb is also recommended for pregnant women for all the same reasons, and is a wonderful herb for children suffering from colds, diarrhoea, colic or fevers at any stage. Raspberry leaves will help in the vomiting of a weak child. It is a wonderful herb to have around the house at all times.

For people, steep the raspberry leaves in boiled water for 10 to 15 minutes to make a tea. Drink the tea at least twice a day.

Mardelin 11-16-2009 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carmen in nj (Post 2882950)
this is a little write up, I got about the use of red rabsberry leaf
Raspberry Leaves for Dogs

One of the most beneficial supplements that you can add to your bitch's diet is raspberry leaves. Whether in herb or in powder form, this is one of the most important of all the herbs for pregnancy. Be very sure, however, that you don't use "raspberry tea" as this tea doesn't contain the raspberry leaves at all.

Raspberry leaves help the strengthen uterine walls, helps reduce labour pain, ease delivery and generally helps to expel afterbirths. [Retention of afterbirth can cause serious infections in the mother.]

Raspberry leaves also contain Vitamin C [which will help build strong bones in the puppies and keep mom's bones strong], calcium as well as Vitamins A, B, D, E, G and H, manganese, phosphorus and is rich in iron. Raspberry leaves enrich colostrum in the bitch's milk and consumption after delivery will help reduce uterine swelling and reduce post partum bleeding.

This herb is also recommended for pregnant women for all the same reasons, and is a wonderful herb for children suffering from colds, diarrhoea, colic or fevers at any stage. Raspberry leaves will help in the vomiting of a weak child. It is a wonderful herb to have around the house at all times.

For people, steep the raspberry leaves in boiled water for 10 to 15 minutes to make a tea. Drink the tea at least twice a day.
The one I use is Syrup, specifically for canines.....just a bit nicer tasting.....and it says to begin in last trimester.....

WV~Yorkies 11-16-2009 11:38 AM
Does the Raspberry leaves decrease contractions and make them not want to push as hard? This was my concern with it this time. I have a bottle I bought with my last litter but didn't use it this time. I did use Oxymate but was thinking about starting to use the Bitch pills instead.

JeanieK 11-16-2009 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 2882955)
The one I use is Syrup, specifically for canines.....just a bit nicer tasting.....and it says to begin in last trimester.....
Where do you get the syrup?

carmen in nj 11-16-2009 11:40 AM
yes, I have that one too..I got it from Revival animal, but when Taffy whelped I did not know so my vet told me about the red rabsberry leaf tea, that I could get locally and it would work faster than the syrop, but now that I feel I know a bit more I got the syrop..:)

TammyJM 11-16-2009 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 2882948)
I get mine through Revivalanimal.com I only give during the last trimester and through till she is done weaning......instructions on quantities are given on the container.

The folic acid I give via Concept A Bitch, now very difficult to find......can't remember where I got my last batch from.....but, I only administer during the last trimester too......and only 3 times a week (just my choice........The product I think you can get folic acid from is Bitch Pills......also via revival animal. The folic acid is of course for the benefit of the pups......
Thanks again Mary! Do you just spoon feed the raspberry syrup....do they like it? My Livi can be so difficult when it comes to what she eats...if she likes it, she will eat a lot of it....but if she decides to turn her nose at something, there's no convincing her!

Tammy

Mardelin 11-16-2009 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WV~Yorkies (Post 2882957)
Does the Raspberry leaves decrease contractions and make them not want to push as hard? This was my concern with it this time. I have a bottle I bought with my last litter but didn't use it this time. I did use Oxymate but was thinking about starting to use the Bitch pills instead.
No, it helps with the health of the uterine walls.....making them stronger, assisting in the ability to contract.

Mardelin 11-16-2009 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TammyJM (Post 2882961)
Thanks again Mary! Do you just spoon feed the raspberry syrup....do they like it? My Livi can be so difficult when it comes to what she eats...if she likes it, she will eat a lot of it....but if she decides to turn her nose at something, there's no convincing her!

Tammy
It depends on the bitch...some I'll syringe in, other's will take it from the spoon, others like it in their food.......

Marc 11-16-2009 12:34 PM
Yikes, theres alot of posts in here, lol. Sorry, I've been running around getting things. I'll read back once I have a bit of time.....

Ok, so I went with the tea thing. She's panting nicely....I'll let ya know how she does. I did give it by syringe cause she wouldn't lap it up.

Mom has been eating VERY well and the pups are doing great so far!

One pup goes up .1 of an ounce everytime I weigh. The porker pup has gone up .1 so far. I will head to the nursery this evening and hopefully with some pics!

carmen in nj 11-16-2009 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc (Post 2883028)
Yikes, theres alot of posts in here, lol. Sorry, I've been running around getting things. I'll read back once I have a bit of time.....

Ok, so I went with the tea thing. She's panting nicely....I'll let ya know how she does. I did give it by syringe cause she wouldn't lap it up.

Mom has been eating VERY well and the pups are doing great so far!

One pup goes up .1 of an ounce everytime I weigh. The porker pup has gone up .1 so far. I will head to the nursery this evening and hopefully with some pics!
she is panting, is sounds like she is going to pass something, keep an eye on her, she might do the nesting thing, Taffy did, I just kept the babies out of her way while she passed the placenta. Wow, that pup is growing by the hour...LOL
I will keep an eye here for you..
hugs,
cArmen in nj

Marc 11-16-2009 05:05 PM
Mom and pups are doing great. Both have gained. Mom just is such a good mom! So far so good! Haven't come up with names yet but we are tossing around "Slate" or "Deisel" for the bigger one and "Elliot" for the smaller one. That could change before final cause I have three kids with opinions lol.

Oh, did the tea thing. She breathed heavily and didnt pass anything. I am doing it again soon but in learning about this if she didn't pass anything then odds are she had no retained placenta. Every other day for three days I can give the tea. My vet also said that by now I would see discharge leading to possible retained placentas which we do not see. Her temp is 101.8. I am gonig to monitor her temp for the remainder of the week.

Sugar's Mom 11-17-2009 08:28 AM
mary, I am confused. One post I read, don't know if it was yours or someone elses, saidd to give the tea after whelp for a retained placenta instead of the shot to make them expel it. Another you saidd you give it to your girls during the last trimester for various things. Now, what I am confused about is if it helps expel the placenta, if it is given in late weeks couldn't it lead to a premature labor? I have never used it but am thinking I might go to GNC or the pet store and get some for after whelp. My girl is on day 57.

carmen in nj 11-17-2009 08:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom (Post 2883978)
mary, I am confused. One post I read, don't know if it was yours or someone elses, saidd to give the tea after whelp for a retained placenta instead of the shot to make them expel it. Another you saidd you give it to your girls during the last trimester for various things. Now, what I am confused about is if it helps expel the placenta, if it is given in late weeks couldn't it lead to a premature labor? I have never used it but am thinking I might go to GNC or the pet store and get some for after whelp. My girl is on day 57.
hello it is me who posted about the tea, the tea is given to a bitch after whelp do not give it to a bitch while whelping,if help is needed use calcium while whelping but after all the babies are out and you want to help our girl clean up her uterus without the oxy shot give her 1/2 a cup of fresh brew of red rabsberry leaf tea mixed with 1/4 teaspoon of karo syrop, will promote uterus clean up, and will also help with milk production. the Syrop given in smaller doses starting at week 7 of pregnancy helps strengten the utering walls and supposely helps with an easier whelp.
I used the tea with my Jack rusell, when I suspected a retained placenta and she passed it whithin 20 minutes. now that I feel I know a bit more, I been giving my Silkie terrier the syrop since she was 7 weeks, I yet to see results, she is due for an x ray tomorrow, and her first due date is the 22nd. I know natural holistic medicine is not for everyone, I do love the mix of traditional medicine and holistic natural medicine..:)
I hope this helps you a bit, hopefully Mary will explain more if you need..
hugs,
Carmen in nj

Mardelin 11-17-2009 09:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom (Post 2883978)
mary, I am confused. One post I read, don't know if it was yours or someone elses, saidd to give the tea after whelp for a retained placenta instead of the shot to make them expel it. Another you saidd you give it to your girls during the last trimester for various things. Now, what I am confused about is if it helps expel the placenta, if it is given in late weeks couldn't it lead to a premature labor? I have never used it but am thinking I might go to GNC or the pet store and get some for after whelp. My girl is on day 57.
Dee,

No need to be confused.....It was another person that stated to give it after whelp to expel the placenta. I'm a firm believer of Oxy after the whelp. Just don't want to take my girl's lives in my hands....

Yes, I do give it during the last trimester....it what it does is help with strengthening of uterine walls, pain during the whelping process....no, it doesn't cause premature labor. I do use the Syrup from Revival a bit different than the tea.

You and I know that premature labor can be caused by a multitude of reasons......something wrong with the pups, not enough room for a mother to carry full term and yes, some meds......

Marc 11-18-2009 12:02 PM
Question:

Just wondering about puppy weight gain and making sure mine are on a good path....

Pups were born Sunday at 11 in the evening...

Pup1 was 6.3 at birth and is now 7.8

Pup2 was 5.6 at birth and is now 7.5

Mardelin 11-18-2009 12:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc (Post 2885580)
Question:

Just wondering about puppy weight gain and making sure mine are on a good path....

Pups were born Sunday at 11 in the evening...

Pup1 was 6.3 at birth and is now 7.8

Pup2 was 5.6 at birth and is now 7.5
Doing good.....before you know it they'll have doubled their birth weight.

Marc 11-18-2009 12:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 2885594)
Doing good.....before you know it they'll have doubled their birth weight.
And is it normal for such rapid growth rate in the first week or so? Should I expect that rate to slow down and if so around what week does the rate slow down?

EDIT: Oh, I was also going to update on the tea leaf thing! It went VERY good. First round of half a cup produced heavy panting and pushes producing a glob of normal discharge stuff. Did the second round and she had no pysical reaction which indicates she is clear :) She is picky about her eating but comes OFTEN to the kitchen to get whatever it is I make for her :)

Pups go for tails/claws tomorrow. Is there a general rule for length of tail? Keep all brown and a 1/4 inch of black? By the looks of that you are cutting exactly half the black off, no?


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