Help!! Cinnamon is in labor!!!!

[bjh]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I use a syringe to feed new puppies. I attach a preemie dog nipple. I've found that I can control the flow of milk and there is less change of air being ingested.

Mary, I have not had to supplement puppies very often but when I did I used a eye dropper and I let them take it in very slow. What is the down side of using a dropper? I know you have to be careful not to let them take it too fast or they will get it in their lungs. When you use the preemie nipple do you still worry about choking? I know the suckling action is important but if you are just supplementing a little does it matter? I am been so lucky that I have never had to hand raise a litter. What are your thoughts on tube feeding? It scares me. Just wondering your thoughts on this.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by bjh

Mary, I have not had to supplement puppies very often but when I did I used a eye dropper and I let them take it in very slow. What is the down side of using a dropper? I know you have to be careful not to let them take it too fast or they will get it in their lungs. When you use the preemie nipple do you still worry about choking? I know the suckling action is important but if you are just supplementing a little does it matter? I am been so lucky that I have never had to hand raise a litter. What are your thoughts on tube feeding? It scares me. Just wondering your thoughts on this.

If you've had success with the dropper, fine. I found it a bit slow and tedious. Where as the nipple does allow sucking reflexes to take place (very important). I usually just plunge in a small amount into the nipple and allow them to suckle. Plus it allows you to measure the amount of milk being taken and document it. Great for communicating with the vets. The litter I was hand raising, just before they were introduced to lapping, were taking in 60 - 65 cc each.....piggies.

I've not every tube fed, and when I suggested it to my vet, (now mind you I took over hand raising of these pups when they were a week old) he was adamantly against it. Just to risky, with the possibility of inserting it incorrectly .

[bjh]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

If you've had success with the dropper, fine. I found it a bit slow and tedious. Where as the nipple does allow sucking reflexes to take place (very important). I usually just plunge in a small amount into the nipple and allow them to suckle. Plus it allows you to measure the amount of milk being taken and document it. Great for communicating with the vets. The litter I was hand raising, just before they were introduced to lapping, were taking in 60 - 65 cc each.....piggies.

I've not every tube fed, and when I suggested it to my vet, (now mind you I took over hand raising of these pups when they were a week old) he was adamantly against it. Just to risky, with the possibility of inserting it incorrectly .

If I ever had to totally hand raise a litter then I would definitely use your method. I just need to find some preemie nipples. I have only looked for them once at Wal-mart and did not see any. I have the same feeling as your vet about tube feeding. It seems that I have not read too many successful cases where the pups were tube fed plus, like you said, they need the suckling reflex.

[yorkiejunkie]

Originally Posted by karak333

does anyone have any suggestions as to where to buy a bottle to feed them with? I bought one bottle but the nipple was way too stiff and they couldn't get anything out of it despite the numerous holes I made in the nipple. I bought another bottle at babies r us for preemie babies but the nipple is too big. and then I tried a dropper but they just keep turning their heads away from it. I am still feeding Cinnamon with a syringe but she is slowly starting to eat soft food herself. I do feed her a lot though. I have made all kinds of mixtures and every time I come upstairs to feed her, I carry like 5 bowls of different things. I feel like I am feeding her a 5 course breakfast in bed lol.

I had read somewhere that dogs are usually lactate intolerant. So when my girls need a pick me up, I give them soy baby formula. I buy the powder, and mix it, according to the instructions ( don't make it too strong, or they will get constipated...), in fact I sprinkle some on there food, right after whelpping, for the calcium, and iron. It gives them calories, and vitamins, and all that, without filling them up too much. Just a suggestion... works for me!

Your babes are babes... Mine were a week old yesterday too! Hope Cinnamon is feeling better!

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by yorkiejunkie

I had read somewhere that dogs are usually lactate intolerant. So when my girls need a pick me up, I give them soy baby formula. I buy the powder, and mix it, according to the instructions ( don't make it too strong, or they will get constipated...), in fact I sprinkle some on there food, right after whelpping, for the calcium, and iron. It gives them calories, and vitamins, and all that, without filling them up too much. Just a suggestion... works for me!

Your babes are babes... Mine were a week old yesterday too! Hope Cinnamon is feeling better!

Are you aware that soy is a calcium leach.

[karak333]

Originally Posted by yorkiejunkie

I had read somewhere that dogs are usually lactate intolerant. So when my girls need a pick me up, I give them soy baby formula. I buy the powder, and mix it, according to the instructions ( don't make it too strong, or they will get constipated...), in fact I sprinkle some on there food, right after whelpping, for the calcium, and iron. It gives them calories, and vitamins, and all that, without filling them up too much. Just a suggestion... works for me!

Your babes are babes... Mine were a week old yesterday too! Hope Cinnamon is feeling better!

thanks for the advice! do you have any pics of your babies?? how many did you have? also, does anyone know where you can buy the right nipple for bottle feeding?? is it the same size as a regular baby nipple? (to me that seems to big).

[bjh]

I would never give a dog anything with soy in it, let alone a nursing female. Just google 'dangers of soy' and you can read why. I won't even eat anything myself with soy in it.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by bjh

If I ever had to totally hand raise a litter then I would definitely use your method. I just need to find some preemie nipples. I have only looked for them once at Wal-mart and did not see any. I have the same feeling as your vet about tube feeding. It seems that I have not read too many successful cases where the pups were tube fed plus, like you said, they need the suckling reflex.

To Tube or Not To Tube
The answer to this depends entirely upon whether you want your puppies to live or not.

What! You say, tubing is the ONLY way to save puppies. And besides, it's fast.

Fast, yes, and deadly. It's one of those things that sounds too good (easy) to be true; and if it sounds too good to be true it is; we know that it is in our most private thoughts. Fast and deadly isn't doing your part by the bitch or the puppies. You may be certain that you are getting the tube in the esophagus (which leads to the stomach) and not the trachea (which leads to the lungs). But, this isn't the problem I'm referring to.

Consider this: when we eat, the process of eating stimulates waves of contraction throughout our entire GI tract. You know very well that as puppies nurse they defecate. That reaction is due to these waves of contraction, which are called peristalsis.

OK. So, we have a sluggish or weak puppy. We put it on the bitch and it won't nurse. What to do! TUBE. NO! If the puppy does not have a good sucking reflex, it will not have any peristalsis. This means the milk we force in through the tube will just sit there. When the tube is removed, it forces itself back up the esophagus, into the trachea, and ends up in the lungs. It does not travel down through the stomach into the intestine.

Now, how big is the stomach of a newborn puppy in your breed? 1/2 cc? Less? As much as 1cc? Probably not much more. That stomach is just a slightly wide spot on a narrow tube. So; let's stick 2 1/2 cc into it . Fast and Deadly. The stomach and esophagus will stretch a bit, then return to it's original shape and size after the milk runs into the lungs. Not going to raise many puppies that way.

[Wend]

I tube fed a litter for two weeks while momma got back on her feet. Then she was able to take over, thank goodness! They did fine, but I might have just been really lucky. If you are getting 10% weight gain per day I think you are doing great.

[bjh]

Originally Posted by Wend

I tube fed a litter for two weeks while momma got back on her feet. Then she was able to take over, thank goodness! They did fine, but I might have just been really lucky. If you are getting 10% weight gain per day I think you are doing great.

I would say you were lucky. I know others have done it successfully but I have read many more instances where the outcome was not good.

[yorkiejunkie]

I just googled soy, and I had no idea. I guess I have been lucky!

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by yorkiejunkie

I just googled soy, and I had no idea. I guess I have been lucky!

Now not to say that in some circumstances it's the only way to go. My husband is a heart patient, soy milk is the only thing he can have.

[KimMee's Mom]

Originally Posted by karak333

something was wrong with loading the images on here, so this is a link to the pictures. also, one of the pictures of one of the puppies docked tail. I did it myself and don't worry I knew what I was doing, but I would like your opinion on how it looks.
thanks
Kara

Pictures by karak333 - Photobucket

KARA- I am so proud of you- the tails look great and what beautiful babies you and Cinnamon have. I love all the pictures. I know you have really worried about them and her. I think they should weigh a bit more but they look happy in the pictures. Like Mary and Barbara said, maybe they are just going to be small.

congratulations girl

[karak333]

Originally Posted by KimMee's Mom

KARA- I am so proud of you- the tails look great and what beautiful babies you and Cinnamon have. I love all the pictures. I know you have really worried about them and her. I think they should weigh a bit more but they look happy in the pictures. Like Mary and Barbara said, maybe they are just going to be small.

congratulations girl

thanks! I really appreciate this place more than anyone knows. if it wasn't for you guys, I probably would not have my little girl here anymore... you guys are great!
thanks to everyone and especially to the people that took a lot of time out of their day to post on this thread and call me to help with my situation. I hope to return the favor to many people.
Kara

[karak333]

I just wanted to let everyone know that I also put up pictures of Cinnamon and of the whelping box on photobucket. here is the link again.

Pictures by karak333 - Photobucket